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More Top 100 Debating Fun: The Atlantic's Top 100 Influential Figures in American History
At least we can all agree that the Beatles (or Radiohead) don't
get to be number one on this list. Check it
out and join the debate--the general criteria is, "most
influential," not necessarily most wonderful. A random
survey:
1) Abraham Lincoln;
16) Mark Twain (highest ranking purely literary figure);
30) Elizabeth Cady Stanton (the highest ranking woman);
46) William Lloyd Garrison;
52) Joseph Smith;
67) P.T. Barnum;
88) Enrico Fermi;
96) Ralph Nader.
Five of the top 10 were presidents--Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, FDR, and Wilson. Anyone reading Reason for this past week will doubtless notice one very serious omission: the late Milton Friedman.
[UPDATE: I originally wrote that I couldn't tell if ever having been an American citizen was a requirement to make this list, but on further thinking about the list it seems as if it must have been--I don't see anyone on it who, to my knowledge, never became a U.S. citizen.]
public schooler|11.22.06 @ 3:31PM|#
It's terrible when you have to google #30 Elizabeth Cady Stanton to find out who she is. And I graduated number 3 in my high school!
|11.22.06 @ 3:39PM|#
I bet Hedy Lamarr isn't on there, and without her, we wouldn't have cell phones!
|11.22.06 @ 3:39PM|#
Does Christian Science really have any influence on America? My
grandparents on both sides were CS, so I have some affection it,
but I never thought of it as having any influence outside of the
small number of followers.
Also, I don't see how any author or poet could have more influence
on America than the most insignificant President.
|11.22.06 @ 3:39PM|#
Gouverneur Morris? Charles Peirce?
These top 100 lists are always quite frustrating.
|11.22.06 @ 3:42PM|#
Zeno: They included Jonathan Edwards, which shows they at least gave the list some thought.
|11.22.06 @ 3:44PM|#
Who did the selecting? Zeno is right. These lists are frustrating. To Gimme there is argurment that self-help and improvement comes from Christian Science. The CS church is in deep decline.
B|11.22.06 @ 3:45PM|#
Ommisions:
Music: Jimi Hendrix--no sounded like him before, and everyone has
tried to sound like him since.
Science: Kary Mullis--his full impact is probably not apparent yet,
but PCR made modern molecular biology possible.
HB Stowe should probably be higher on the list. Even Lincoln
referred to her as the woman who started the war, and nothing
shaped modern America like the Civil War.
|11.22.06 @ 3:45PM|#
No Eisenhower? No Edward Teller? Can we nominate the team of Shockley, Brattain and Bardeen? Well, it will make for some lively parlor discussions.
|11.22.06 @ 3:47PM|#
Does Christian Science really have any influence on
America?
Don't know about that but the newspaper, The Christian Science
Monitor, provides a pretty good example of objectivity and
balance when it comes to reporting the news. Both Fox AND MSM could
learn a thing or two.
That's probably a more influenctial legacy.
|11.22.06 @ 3:48PM|#
The article doesn't say who came up with this list or how. Emerson and Thoreau should both be higher than Twain. And Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Louis Armstrong, and Judy Garland should all be on there instead of a lot of names in the 50-100 range.
|11.22.06 @ 3:49PM|#
How about John Burgoyne? Without his poor strategic judgment, there wouldn't even be a United States.
|11.22.06 @ 3:51PM|#
No pre-Rev War figures? Wow. Nothing happened from 1607-the
birth of Franklin apparently.
If they had done any research they would have picked John Hall, the
most important inventor in American history. The guy who invented
true interchangeable parts manufacturing and thus brought about the
"American System" of manufacturing.
|11.22.06 @ 3:53PM|#
If you include Alexander Hamilton, don't you have to include Aaron Burr? Remember the operative word is influential.
|11.22.06 @ 3:53PM|#
Damn you Mel Brooks! You beat me to it. I get extra points for spelling it correctly, though.
|11.22.06 @ 3:54PM|#
Hall's patent: http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=207141&search=rifles&images=&c=1&s=
|11.22.06 @ 3:56PM|#
No Britney Spears? No Jamie Foxx? Who made this list anyway -
people over 25?
Sorry, just had to clear the palate.
|11.22.06 @ 3:57PM|#
Zeno: Jonathan Edwards died before the Revolution, and he is on the list. George Whitfield should probably also be on the list. Religious life in America to the present day was fundamentally shaped by these two men.
|11.22.06 @ 4:00PM|#
In a contrarian mood, I suggest John Browning... a central figure in the development of modern firearms and holder of 128 firearms patents. What is America if not the celebration of firearms?
|11.22.06 @ 4:03PM|#
ron,
Yeah, I missed him. I only scanned the list quickly. Still, what
about William Bradford or Cotton Mather?
|11.22.06 @ 4:05PM|#
Did anyone notice this one?
83 James Fenimore Cooper
The novels are unreadable, but he was the first great mythologizer
of the frontier.
What the hell? How are they "unreadable?" Hell, the guy was the
first American ever to really making a living as an author! If they
are unreadable, why did I enjoy his work?
|11.22.06 @ 4:06PM|#
At least 2 Oak Park'ers! (FLW & Hemingway) Woo Hoo! Oak Park rules! In your face, Evanston!
Tim Cavanaugh|11.22.06 @ 4:07PM|#
being an actual American citizen is not clearly a
requirement--it was influence in American history that
counts.
Which is a sticking point: George III had a bigger influence on
American history than half the people on this list. And what about
Hitler and Stalin?
Just among Americans: Where's Philo Farnsworth? Robert Fulton? John
Hammond?
It's a pretty good list, actually.
|11.22.06 @ 4:09PM|#
Tim Cavanaugh,
Eli Whitney is far, far too much lionized. The cotton gin did not
save slavery.
Nice to see you back in the old 'hood.
Happy Thanksgiving. :)
|11.22.06 @ 4:11PM|#
John Hancock - His genius for compromise made the Declaration of
Independence possible.
Cotton Mather - The first great American intellectual.
Roger Williams - First true fighter for liberty in America.
|11.22.06 @ 4:15PM|#
I notice that they put Thomas Edison at number 9 and the caption reads
It wasn't just the lightbulb; the Wizard of Menlo Park was the most prolific inventor in American history.
Nikola Tesla is one of the most important inventors in American
history, much more than Thomas Edison. If you like the electrical
grid and pretty much anything else that uses alternating current,
then thank Nikola Tesla.
Robert Cote|11.22.06 @ 4:18PM|#
Gates and Walton are way too far dowm on the list by virtue of
recent impact. Edison is robbed.
But none of this is what I wanted to talk about.
Jefferson v Madison. I have no doubt that even Madison turns in his
grave at the extent of Federalism we have wrought. Jefferson
weeps.
|11.22.06 @ 4:33PM|#
Longfellow belongs on there in place of Whitman. And Melville should probably come off.
|11.22.06 @ 4:41PM|#
What the hell? How are they "unreadable?" Hell, the guy was
the first American ever to really making a living as an author! If
they are unreadable, why did I enjoy his work?
Mark Twain wrote a hilarious takedown of Cooper, and were I at
home, I'd give you the name of the essay. I highly recommend it,
anyway. It might give you an idea of why some people think the
Leatherstocking books weren't all that great.
|11.22.06 @ 4:42PM|#
Wernher von Braun? Did the space age go by
unnoticed?
Boy, do I feel stupid right now!
|11.22.06 @ 4:51PM|#
As long as we're talking electrically, Joseph Henry. We might include his work at the Smithsonian as well.
|11.22.06 @ 4:52PM|#
Doublespeak-Whether you admit it or not, you sing along when
"Love Song" comes on the radio. It's ok-everyone does it.
In fact, it's playing in your head right now, isn't it?
Loove is knockin..outside your doo-ooor!
|11.22.06 @ 4:57PM|#
In a contrarian mood, I suggest John Browning... a central
figure in the development of modern firearms and holder of 128
firearms patents. What is America if not the celebration of
firearms?
Nah, they already had two Mormons on the list. Diversity, you
know.
But you are correct: Old JMB designed many weapons, two of which
were instrumental in all American wars of the past century and are
still in use today: The 1911 pistol and the M2 .50 cal machine
gun.
|11.22.06 @ 5:01PM|#
joe said:
I guess Al Jourgensen was right on the bubble.
I'm voting for joe as winner of the thread.
davej|11.22.06 @ 5:18PM|#
I guess the way FDR adopted the ideas of Benito Mussolini and Karl Marx doesn't count. But those ideas sure have influenced the US.
|11.22.06 @ 5:31PM|#
Herman fucking Melville? Speaking of unreadable...
I'll trade you ten Melvilles for one William Tecumseh Sherman, and
twenty Thoreaus (not THAT one) for Crazy Horse.
|11.22.06 @ 5:38PM|#
Fools! The most influential American of them all, the Father of the Baby Boomers, Maynard G. Krebs, should be number one.
Scott Stein|11.22.06 @ 5:40PM|#
Here's a link to Twain's essay: Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses. I included it on the syllabus of a course I started teaching this term at the University of Pennsylvania, What's So Funny.
Scott Stein|11.22.06 @ 5:51PM|#
Zeno,
Fair enough. If it makes you feel better, he's still required
reading in English courses. Moving along.
|11.22.06 @ 5:52PM|#
If they are going to include Eli Whitney and Cyrus McCormick
then they sure as hell should include:
John Deere.
|11.22.06 @ 5:56PM|#
Why is Babe Ruth on there? And not D.W. Griffiths? Don't we enjoy action movies and epics more than baseball? What about Mack Sennet?
ed|11.22.06 @ 6:11PM|#
Two words: Only Ed and The Almost.
Er, five words.
American Patriot and Pop-Culture Crackpot.*
*Ed appologizes for this crass self-endorsement.
Free Minds and Free Markets!
Huzzah!
|11.22.06 @ 6:17PM|#
I'd swap Milton Friedman for Rachel Carson any day. Other than that, it's hard to really quibble without a week or so to think about it. But Jonathan Edwards? A poor man's Bob Dylan in my book! But we could all "put a good buzz on" once in a while.
|11.22.06 @ 6:55PM|#
Notable omissions:
Jay Gould
Julia Child
Ann Landers
Marilyn Monroe
People who didn't belong:
Frederick Law Olmsted
James Polk
Joseph Smith
Lyman Beecher
|11.22.06 @ 8:40PM|#
John Milton.
Vladimir Kosma Zworykin/Philo Taylor Farnsworth inventors of the
television.
Their cred for music left with a sucking sound when Elvis topped
the list (even with Alien Jourgensen on the bubble "with
sympathy")
|11.22.06 @ 8:44PM|#
"Hmmm, I don't know about a "Top 100" list that has 102 people
on it."
I only count 101... but point taken
|11.22.06 @ 9:01PM|#
Where's John Bartram, the first American botanist, who with his
friend Benjamin Franklin founded the American Philosophical
Society?
Without him we might never have known about sexual reproduction of
plants.
Got to protect the family honor here, don't you know?
|11.22.06 @ 9:19PM|#
I only count 101... but point taken
102 because of the Wright Brothers and Lewis and Clark.
Larry A|11.22.06 @ 9:41PM|#
Lee was a great general, but Grant was the "conciliator."
And where's General Blackjack Pershing? Admiral Hyman Rickover,
Douglas MacArthur, Geronimo?
Frederick Remington, Al Capp, Zane Gray, Norman Rockwell, Charles
Schulz, Gene Roddenberry?
dagny|11.22.06 @ 10:17PM|#
Cooper is a man who loves to hear himself talk at length about
some tree or another, which today we consider to be the realm of
self-published crap.
Melville, on the other hand, parodied that fashion, while at the
same time taking advantage of its breadth to slip in sublime pieces
of truth. Read one of his books for once without the juvenile
assumption that the narrator is equal to the author and you'll come
away with a much greater appreciation of American literature.
Billy Beck|11.22.06 @ 10:29PM|#
Les Paul!
The man only invented multi-track recording and a whole host of
technical innovations in the studio.
Without what he did, music as we've known it for the past
half-century, anyway, simply would not exist. Look back, think
about it, and hoist one for Mr. Lester W. Polfus.
Mike Laursen|11.23.06 @ 12:00AM|#
"most influential," not necessarily most
wonderful.
Yeah, but this is still a list of more or less good influences. I
wanna see a list of Top 100 Bad Influentual Figures.
John Dewey? Thomas Kinkade?
|11.23.06 @ 12:58AM|#
I added Winfield Scott (the most influential general of the first half of the 19th century, who trained a lot of the generals who fought the Civil War), D. W. Griffith and Edgar Allen Poe.
|11.23.06 @ 1:03AM|#
I only count 101... but point taken
102 because of the Wright Brothers and Lewis and Clark.
The discrepancy might be occuring because #54, Bill Gates, is being
blocked due to an Internet Explorer issue. A reboot may help.
|11.23.06 @ 2:16AM|#
Someone we haven't considered yet is Norman Borlaug.
Larry A,
In military affairs they should have included Rear Admiral Alfred
Thayer Mahan. The most influential military theorist since von
Clauswitz.
|11.23.06 @ 3:14AM|#
I don't see anyone on it who, to my knowledge, never became
a U.S. citizen
I think Nat Turner might be the only exception.
okfuture|11.23.06 @ 3:20AM|#
Milton Friedman's omission is a shame . . . a travesty, in fact. It shall be left to another generation, whose lives will have been further touched by his legacy, to grant him his kudos.
|11.23.06 @ 3:56AM|#
I don't see anyone on it who, to my knowledge, never became a
U.S. citizen.
Well, technically Johnathan Edwards never became a U.S. citizen; he
was born in the British North American colonies and died in them
before the Revolution (even before the troubles started in the
post-French and Indian war settlement). What his attitude towards
the Revolution would have been is unknown to me.
Thomas Paine did die somewhere in New York state (on Manhattan
island somewhere), but I don't know what his citizenship status
was. He was a pariah when he died.
anthony|11.23.06 @ 5:02AM|#
i noticed a lack of african americans, women, hispanics, first
nations people, etc etc
and as for mary baker eddy, her influencewasnt only CS but a
perculirly american optomism, about healing with faith instead of
medicine, and against war, and all of that anti authrotarian
radicalness, and of course the newspaper
|11.23.06 @ 5:29AM|#
Jack Johnson
Maybe the best heavyweight boxer ever, and the first black man that
refused to not be free.
|11.23.06 @ 7:04AM|#
Anyway, any list like this tells you more about the historical period in which the list was made than it does about American history, etc.
|11.23.06 @ 8:36AM|#
i noticed a lack of african americans, women, hispanics,
first nations people, etc etc
That's because for most of our history members of those groups
either were not present in the US in significant numbers or not
were able to rise to positions of influence due to societal
restrictions.
History is about facts and reality, not wishful thinking. Making
the list more "diverse" might make modern Americans feel
better about themselves, but it wouldn't change what actually
happened back then.
|11.23.06 @ 9:06AM|#
Captain Holly,
Well, there are a number of very influential black people who could
have been included without making it a P.C. parade. For example, a
number of Jazz artists. One could also include George Washington
Carver.
|11.23.06 @ 3:25PM|#
I think Ayn Rand and Nikola Tesla are notable omissions. Personally I'd have liked to see Isaac Asimov make the cut, but I'm biased toward sci-fi types.
edna|11.23.06 @ 3:50PM|#
bob keeshan. tex avery. jerome horwitz. ehrich weisz.
and, of course, brooks robinson.
|11.23.06 @ 4:51PM|#
Geronimo?
Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce?
Sitting Bull?
All were influential with their respective tribes, but in terms of
overall US history, they were little more than temporary
impediments to the settlement of the West.
However, since it's Thanksgiving I will agree that Chief Massasoit
and his translator Squanto should be on the list. Because if they
hadn't helped the Pilgrims get on their feet and instead treated
them as enemies, the English might have gotten the idea that
settling the New World just wasn't worth the trouble. And that
really would have changed US history.
|11.23.06 @ 6:55PM|#
I understand that this is a list of influential and not greatest, however if John Wilkes Booth ands Tim McViegh did not make the grade, how the hell could Rachel Carson? That woman ( as well as the EPA) has the blood of millions of malaria victims on her hands.
|11.24.06 @ 12:59AM|#
"That woman ( as well as the EPA) has the blood of millions of
malaria victims on her hands."
Sorry, but you've been duped. Not true at all. The topic has been
discussed to death here... so I won't spend any time in
refutation.
Here is a quick look at some of the misconceptions
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/09/becker_and_posners_ignorance_a.php
|11.24.06 @ 8:32AM|#
Lewis and Clark didn't influence anyone. They were ignored in their own time and their report ended up in a desk drawer for years. By the time anyone read it, the west was already inhabited by using entirely different routes.
|11.24.06 @ 11:58AM|#
Edward Everett Horton could replace many of the people on this list with no significant diminution of its validity.
|11.24.06 @ 12:35PM|#
I'm astonished nobody involved in the founding of Texas made the list - Sam Houston, Davy Crockett, Tyler, Austin? Or California: Leland Stanford, for a start, who played a major role in the birth of transcontinental railroads as well.
|11.24.06 @ 4:38PM|#
A few of my omitted favorites:
John Brown - triggered a civil war
Duke Ellington - most important jazz figure
Lew Wallace - First Pop Culture Phenomenon
Robert Green Ingersoll - Leading spokesman of American
secularism
Alan Freed - Pop music's "Johnny Appleseed"
William Morton - Made modern surgery possible
George Marshall - A genuine hero in WWII, his bungling of the China
situation in the late forties brought the Cold War to Asia.
Les Paul - What would modern popular music be without electric
guitars?
Curt Flood - Changed the face of professional sports
Milton Berle - First Television Superstar
Willis Haviland Carrier - His invention - air conditioning - added
years to the average life expectancy and made the federal
government a year-round industry.
|11.24.06 @ 11:41PM|#
I know this will stick in the craw of many, but John Kennedy should rank if only for kick-starting the space program.
Billy Beck|11.25.06 @ 7:20AM|#
Jim Walsh: "Les Paul - What would modern popular music be
without electric guitars?"
I've already noted Les Paul, and the fact is that his invention of
multi-track recording is far, far more important. The electric
guitar is a big deal, but it's not the only signal that was ever
run through a recording console to tape, by a long shot.
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