Brian Doherty | November 15, 2006
Malachi Ritscher, a dedicated documentarian of Chicago's experimental music scene, angry at himself for failing to slash Donald Rumsfeld's throat when he had the chance, burned himself to death to protest the Iraq War a couple of weeks back--"near a 25-foot-tall Loop sculpture titled "Flame of the Millennium." Apparently, the chance to vote Democratic on the then-forthcoming election day wasn't enough for the guy.
Ritscher's self-penned obituary.
A Wikipedia mini-history of politically inspired self-immolation.
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That's two days in a row that you've posted Burning Man stories, Brian.
So, when do they plan to hold the Malachi Ritscher Memorial
Barbeque?
And is Rachel Corrie's ghost invited?
I win the contest for being the first to point out the irony of using gasoline to protest a war in the Middle East.
Maybe, but I win the subtlety award for the Madame Nhu
reference:
But though she could be charming, she was also considered ruthless,
willful, and arrogant, and her spiteful tongue provoked worldwide
outrage when she accused Buddhist monks who had burned themselves
to death to protest the Diem regime of staging "a barbecue with
imported gasoline."
http://www.trivia-library.com/b/where-are-they-now-dragon-lady-of-vietnam-madame-nhu.htm
Portrait of a fatal case of self-importance.
If he really wanted to give his life for the sake of others he
could have gone to Iraq, and thrown himself on an IED.
The article read "horrified commuters," but being a former Chicagoan and train rider, I probably would gotten off the CTA just to watch the show.
From reading that, it sounded like there was a good chance he would've done himself in whether the US invaded Iraq in '03 or not.
That's two days in a row that you've posted Burning Man
stories, Brian.
Jesse Walker just became my favorite Reason writer.
Reading his obit, the guy seemed to have a tremendous lack of follow through...except for his suicide, of course.
Maybe he will start a trend. I'd like to see more of you anti-war dolts ignite yourselves in protest
John D:
And I'd like to see more of you pro-war dolts throw yourself at
land mines.
Postmodern Sleaze
"And I'd like to see more of you pro-war dolts throw yourself at
land mines."
Nah. They just go 'over the top.'
Oh, nonsense, Arensen.
The worst sacrifice 99% of pro-war dolts are going to give for
their country is the contraction of mild carpal tunnel syndrome
from repeatedly calling people cowards via anonymous web
postings.
Based on the second-to-last line in his self-penned obit, he
didn't know the difference between an "epithet" and an
"epitaph".
I tried to come up with a joke based on this and failed, so I'm
reduced to posthumously mocking his vocabulary.
Dumbass.
"The worst sacrifice 99% of pro-war dolts are going to give for
their country is the contraction of mild carpal tunnel syndrome
from repeatedly calling people cowards via anonymous web postings."
- joe
Funny, I was just thinking that it was usually anti-war types who
scream "chickenhawk".
I guess the anti-war pacifist is just the flip side of the pro-war
antagonist.
(geek on)
Or as Spock said about evil Kirk: "You have here an unusual
opportunity to appraise the human mind, or to examine, in Earth
terms, the roles of good and evil in a man. His negative side,
which you call hostility, lust, violence; and his positive side,
which Earth people express as compassion, love, tenderness. And
what is it that makes one man an exceptional leader? We see here
indications that it is his negative side which makes him strong --
that his evil side, if you will, properly controlled and
disciplined, is vital to his strength. Your negative side, removed
from you, the power of command begins to elude you."
(geek off)
rob,
"Funny, I was just thinking that it was usually anti-war types who
scream "chickenhawk".
I guess the anti-war pacifist is just the flip side of the pro-war
antagonist."
The anti-war pacifists don't claim to be braver, more steadfast,
for more manly than their opponents. A rather relevant detail.
"The anti-war pacifists don't claim to be braver, more
steadfast, for more manly than their opponents. A rather relevant
detail." - joe
Of course not, they simply contract "mild carpal tunnel syndrome
from repeatedly calling people cowards via anonymous web postings."
Funny how they can make that judgement call without knowing
anything about who they're insulting.
You think that someone's personal opinion of themselves somehow
legitimates an insult about another person's opinion? Wow, that's a
mind-bender. I fail to see how someone claiming to "be braver, more
steafast, or more manly" than I am would legitimate my calling them
a coward.
In other words, it's like a kettle and a pot calling one another
names. They're both guilty - the guy who insults a principled
anti-war pacifist and the guy who insults a principled pro-war
antagonist. They're even using the same insult.
Funny how you only stick up for the guy you identify with
ideologically, rather than denouncing the nonsense on both
sides.
Typical...
Wow, what a bizarre thread. Jihadist suicide bombers get big
headlines and no small amount of grudging, even fearful respect all
over the blogosphere, including HnR. But those who sacrifice only
themselves to make a point -- certainly the libertarian position --
can only get jeered in here.
You know folks, if you don't start showing the courage of your
alleged libertarian convictions, people will think you are just GOP
shills. I expect Comedy Central and
Leno/Letterman/Conan/Ferguson/Kimmel to make jokes about this, but
I would think the people in a supposedly "libertarian" forum would
take a moment to salute someone who didn't initiate force to pursue
a political/social goal. Burning to death is a horrible way to
die.
Many hawks say that their support for the War, and lots of other
wars, stems from their being braver and more manly than people who
don't like lots of wars.
They often call their opponents cowards and wimps on the internet,
for not supporting the wars they like.
And yet, this questioning of other people's courage and manhood is
almost always the most dangerous, most manly thing these people do
to support the wars they claim are so important - which is neither
a courageous nor a manly thing to do, and makes the claim that
supporting wars demonstrates your manhood look hypocritical. When
they do this from behind anonymous fake names, it is even more
hypocritical. These things are hypocritical because the people
making the claim of "too cowardly to fight" are, themselves, not
fighting, and behaving in a cowardly manner.
On the other hand, when people who don't claim that their position
on the war demonstrates superior cojones call these hawks on this
hypocrisy - by pointing out that posting under anonymous names
isn't very courageous, or by noting the difference between their
states beliefs and their actions (aka calling them chickenhawks),
there is no such hypocrisy.
As much as you might revel in thinking of yourself as a victim, no
one is calling you a chickenhawk for your position on the war, or
even for supporting a war you're not fighting in. It's the
assertion that supporting the war makes someone a better, more
courageous man, coupled with the refusal to anything manly or
courageous in support of that war, that warrants the charge of
"chickenhawk."
Look at the quote you objected to so strongly: I didn't denounce
anyone for supporting the war, or even for not joining up to fight
it. I denounced people who do both those things, and still assert
that their feelings make them more courageous and manly then those
who do not support the war.
JAM
It may have escaped your notice, but libertarians are not big on a)
"self-sacrifice", b) guilt trips, & c) grandstanding, all of
which are apparent in this guy's actions. His actions did precisely
nothing to advance the position of those of us who oppose the war.
In fact, it did the opposite, in that he made opponents seem
ridiculous.
The mocking comments may be tasteless, but reflect the fact that
his actions were more farce than tragedy.
I save my respect for the dead for people like the passengers on
flight 93, who fought to live.
Obviously, one can take a principled pro-war or anti-war
position. One can also take an idiotic pro-war or anti-war
position. On this forum we should at least attempt to distinguish
the difference.
The lecture is over.
I save my respect for the dead for people like the
passengers on flight 93, who fought to live.
Shouldn't that be fought so others could live?
Maybe they were blown out of the sky, & their fight was cut
short. We;ll know in 20 years.
Setting yourself on fire comes in two flavors: deep conviction,
think the Viet monk. And personal demons, which grab on an external
to light the match.
There was a chap who set himself alight back in the mid 80's re:
mass murder in El Sal.
Obviously a fool. Unlike the Serious Thinkers that lit his
fuse......
J sub D
Both, I think.
All the information I have seen indicates that the passengers on
flight 93 knew they were doomed if they did not act, so it was a
fight to live in that sense.
They also appear to have known that, if they merely submitted and
accepted their fate, others would also die.
MUTT - what *did* those 'barbequed' monks in VN accomplish
again? Given the subsequent events/actions of the JFK/LBJ admin
(assassination of Diem, political chaos in S.VN, massive US
intervention,) I can't say that their actions had a particularly
positive effect. If anything they goaded JFK into making the
decision to wax Diem, which took the US on the road to large-scale
involvement in the war.
And I hadn't even *heard* of the El Salvador chap, though I remain
unmoved. An odd statement -- life is too precious, therefore I'm
going to kill myself.
Jesse Walker | November 15, 2006, 12:16pm
That's two days in a row that you've posted Burning Man
stories, Brian.
OMG -- We're not worthy! We're not worthy!
"Many hawks say that their support for the War, and lots of
other wars, stems from their being braver and more manly than
people who don't like lots of wars. They often call their opponents
cowards and wimps on the internet, for not supporting the wars they
like." - joe
Undoubtedly there are some idiots who do this. That doesn't excuse
the idiots on the other side from making unfounded ad hom attacks,
either.
"And yet, this questioning of other people's courage and manhood is
almost always the most dangerous, most manly thing these people do
to support the wars they claim are so important" - joe
Says you. How do you know that the guy you're anonymously arguing
with isn't career military?
Calling someone names isn't the same as arguing with their point
and it isn't something anyone should defend.
You think calling someone a "chickenhawk" is acceptable because you
don't think there is an inherent hypocrisy in a pacifist's position
that exists in the guy you call a "chickenhawk." Right so
far?
I could be wrong about your stance, but that seems the upshot of
what appears to be your defense of name-calling, while I think
calling someone a coward is pointless, stupid, and wrong regardless
of that person's political stance.
Frankly, anyone who "makes the claim that supporting wars
demonstrates your manhood" is stupid, regardless of whether it
makes them "look hypocritical."
However, calling someone a coward because you think their pro-war
stance is due to their ability not to have to do the fighting is
equally stupid.
"When they do this from behind anonymous fake names, it is even
more hypocritical." - joe
A desire for anonymity doesn't always stem from fear, joe. In an
anonymous forum, you can never tell what the person you're arguing
with has done in his/her lifetime. It's just ridiculous to throw
around such insults.
"As much as you might revel in thinking of yourself as a victim, no
one is calling you a chickenhawk for your position on the war, or
even for supporting a war you're not fighting in." - joe
Do you mean me, specifically? Because other than a thread a while
back where some troll went off, I don't think I've ever been called
a chickenhawk. I know that I've never accused anyone of being a
coward for their political position on war.
"It's the assertion that supporting the war makes someone a better,
more courageous man, coupled with the refusal to do anything manly
or courageous in support of that war, that warrants the charge of
'chickenhawk.'"
When I see that argument around here, joe, I'll make sure to
denounce it. Basing your support for war on how manly you think it
is would be like basing your manhood on the car you drive: juvenile
and foolish.
"Look at the quote you objected to so strongly: I didn't denounce
anyone for supporting the war, or even for not joining up to fight
it. I denounced people who do both those things, and still assert
that their feelings make them more courageous and manly then those
who do not support the war." - joe
I honestly can't think of anyone on HNR who has
1) come out as "supporitng the war"
AND
2) refuses "joining up to fight it"
AND
3) "assert[s] that their feelings make them more courageous and
manly then those who do not support the war"
So who were you "denouncing," joe? I'm sure you've got some
anonymous coward's chest-thumping HNR post where he claims his
support for war makes him more manly than some anti-war guy.
Especially since you feel so strongly about denouncing the
hypocrisy you bravely sacrifice yourself to rebut with cries of
"chickenhawk," "coward," and "hypocrite."
Once again, I think this is an example where I think anyone who
someone a coward is an idiot, while you are defending people who
behave badly because you agree with their politics. Don't you ever
get tired of defending the dumb guys just because they're
ostensibly on your side?
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