New at Reason

David Weigel | October 2, 2006

John Stossel teams up with Terry Colon to illustrate (literally) the labyrinthine process of firing an unfit teacher in the great state of New York.

Comments

|10.2.06 @ 2:25PM|#

The union was worried that principals would play favorites, hiring friends and family members

Yeah, unions hate it when that happens.

Tim Cavanaugh|10.2.06 @ 2:32PM|#

I'm not sticking up for the spelling error of the teacher in the illo, but isn't it high time we just started spelling the middle day of the week "Wensday?"

|10.2.06 @ 2:36PM|#

Just have the teacher send the kids on a museum field trip.

|10.2.06 @ 2:47PM|#

Tim Cavanaugh,

That would be dishonorable to our one, true god Woden. In fact, your suggesting it makes you a terrorist infidel guilty of crimes against Woden. I call for a fatwa/religious intervention on your head!

|10.2.06 @ 2:53PM|#

Ah, smacky, I join your militant worship of the Norse gods. On Woden's Day, let us smash the idols of the oppressors and. . .well, you know the drill.

We need more Saxon violence!!!!!!

|10.2.06 @ 3:09PM|#

We need more Saxon violence!!!!!!


That's all the news is anymore these days: Saxon violence.

|10.2.06 @ 3:17PM|#

If public education were subject to the competition of the free market, those bureaucratic rules would be unnecessary, because parents would hold a bad principal accountable by sending their kids to a different school the next year.

mmmm. Kool-aid

|10.2.06 @ 3:17PM|#

smacky,

You've got some crazed Nordic blood in your veins, right? So that means that at any given time, you may want to jump in a longboat and do some pillaging. And some Saxoning.

When I die, I am definitely opting for the flaming Viking longboat funeral. With dirges! Gotta have the dirges, by Thor.

|10.2.06 @ 3:20PM|#

Honestly, how anyone could hold out the public education system as some ideal is beyond me. A privatized system would have to be better, only because it couldn't be any worse.

We could use more Vikings in education, too. And axes, too. Big axes.

|10.2.06 @ 3:21PM|#

You've got some crazed Nordic blood in your veins, right?

Alas, my beserk posts have led you astray. I only have such blood in spirit.

But funeral dirges...yes! Those are a must.

|10.2.06 @ 3:33PM|#

Just remember, Viking blood is everywhere. Even Russians have got it. It illustrates again the evolutionary advantages of raping and pillaging.

Yes, the dirge. I've always sneered at the "happy funeral", alá New Orleans. No. I want thousands of screaming and moaning mourners, scraping their scalps with their fingernails until they bleed and singing songs about how much the world will suck 'cause I'm gone. Seems reasonable enough.

|10.2.06 @ 3:43PM|#

I don't like this "change the spelling to fit the majority view" thing. Then I'll be the freak because I actually pronounce both Rs in "February."

And mark my words: when the Great Sherbert Wars begin, it'll be brother against brother.

|10.2.06 @ 3:51PM|#

I've been reading a lot of John Taylor Gatto recently, on much the same issues.

Here's a reasonable introduction to his writing.

It's interesting to consider that the problem is not, in fact, just public schools -- it's mandatory schools of any variety, public or private.

|10.2.06 @ 3:57PM|#

I've always sneered at the "happy funeral", al᠎ew Orleans.

Not me. I told my fiance I was an authentic jazz funeral, for two reasons 1) I like the music and 2) it's sure to thoroughly piss off all my old-fart, Irish-Catholic relatives.

|10.2.06 @ 4:06PM|#

Sax and Violins is a funny album from Martin Mull.

|10.2.06 @ 4:07PM|#

Only nitwits add a second "r" to sherbet.
Are they stupid or just stubborn?
The same ones add a "d" to refrigerator.

|10.2.06 @ 4:19PM|#

The example cited, where it took six years to fire a teacher for gross misconduct in sending sexually explicit e-mails to students, makes me wonder if it is at all possible to fire someone who is simply a bad teacher but otherwise follows the rules.

Public school systems can be atrocious, but please remember that most teachers really do teach, and teach fairly well, despite being imprisoned within the system. The problem lies with the inability to get rid of the incompetent and the untrustworthy.

Also, it is dishonest not to admit that there would be examples of scandalous misconduct in a wholly private system. This is especially true as most parents have no idea (or a very strange idea) of what is 'good teaching.' The difference would lie in the ability of the parents to remove their children quickly if they became aware something was wrong.

|10.2.06 @ 4:22PM|#

There are lessons to learn about pillaging and burning, which my ancestors learned the hard way: First you pillage, then you burn. Seems to work out better that way.

|10.2.06 @ 4:39PM|#

Oh, come one, ed. Dont be rediculous! It could of been an honest misteak. Anyways, its a mute point now.

[That was pretty painful to write.]

|10.2.06 @ 4:41PM|#

"There are lessons to learn about pillaging and burning, which my ancestors learned the hard way: First you pillage, then you burn. Seems to work out better that way."

Right. It's "STEAL the sheep, ***** the women." not the other way around.

|10.2.06 @ 4:50PM|#

BRIAN: You mean. . .you were raped?

MANDY: Well, at first, yes.

Seth Cohn|10.2.06 @ 5:13PM|#

Don't forget John's keynoting at the NH Liberty Forum:

John Stossel will be the keynote speaker. His speech, to be titled The Enemies of Liberty, will be delivered immediately following a delicious four-course meal.

Thursday February 22 to Sunday February 25, 2007
http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum

|10.2.06 @ 5:15PM|#

Aresen:

Yeah, it took 'em a few tries before they got these things right. They were mainly blond, after all.

|10.2.06 @ 9:53PM|#

No offense, MarkV, but I must repudiate your blond joke at the expense of the Vikings. I'm sensing that heads and bodies may be separated. Remember, no person is stupid with an ax in his hand.

Hey, in a related note, I just heard that the whole "Conan, what is best in life" bit is derived from something Genghis Khan reputedly said. Anyone know anything about that? Hope Arnold loses the election so that he can make that third Conan movie, by the way.

|10.2.06 @ 10:35PM|#

as usual, I find Stossel's stuff less than compelling, perhaps because he's used to only having to persuade people who get all of their news from TV, who perhaps prefer to be told what to think.

it seems the main complaint is that the procedure is too difficult. well, then the school system should renegotiate with the teachers' union. admittedly, the procedure protects all, both good and bad, just like the constitution protects the rights of all, both innocent and guilty. sorry if the highly overpaid administrators are too lazy to make the case to fire an incompetent teacher.

also, there's a difference between incompetent and a teacher with inappropriate behavior.

finally, anyone can pick the most extreme bad example and say "see, the system's broken! tear the whole thing down!" obviously, that one example can't be assumed to be representative of the system as a whole without more evidence

|10.2.06 @ 10:49PM|#

ok, I forced myself to finish reading the whole thing. first, John Stossel, please stop calling yourself a libertarian. you're an idiot. second, if there are so many grossly incompetent teachers, why are you so convinced that the principals who want to fire given teachers are in the right? are you aware that principals are usually promoted from teaching positions? are you aware that (in my experience, in the south) the teachers most likely to be promoted to positions of administrative authority are physical education teachers/ coaches? they're not the sharpest knives in the drawer, IMHO. also, shouldn't there be some sort of fact-finding system in place? should teachers not have the right to sue for their jobs, or to challenge unfair termination? no, apparently, only bad teachers get put through the attempted termination process, but can't actually be fired. if they weren't bad teachers, they'd never have received bad evaluations. good teachers get good evaluations, bad teachers get bad evaluations.

I want to live in Stosselland, where everything is simple and straightforward.

Reason editors: Stossel is an idiot. I humbly suggest you not publish more of his puerile work.

|10.3.06 @ 12:38AM|#

Biologist,

While Stossel's illustrations may be an overexaggeration, do you honestly believe that unions and any system they help to set up are not set tup to protect morons?

Nick

|10.3.06 @ 1:45AM|#

I suppose it's probably a bit too late to post this, but I gotta say, that illustration is the best (if that's the way to put it) thing I've seen in a while.

|10.3.06 @ 2:46AM|#

biologist:

I don't give a fuck what the problem with public schools are - if it is the teachers fault, or it is the principles fault, etc. Argue all you want. It is undeniable fact that the U.S. school system is a complete failure... that it is getting worse... that U.S. education has reached sub third world levels while being the most expensive system in the world.

Regardless of whose fault it is, the concept that innocent people should be forced to send their kids to our current schools, or be forced to pay for them, is dispicable. Teachers overwelmingly oppose every single opportunity to offer anyone any other choice but the completly failing government education monopoly.

Even if teachers aren't not responsible for the complete failure of the public educational system, they are fully responsible for the government making sure no-one but the very richest Americans can go to a private school and get an education.

|10.3.06 @ 10:26AM|#

thankfully, my public school education has taught me how to recognize hyperbole.