New at Reason

David Weigel | August 21, 2006

Blogger extraordinaire Michael Totten reports from the Kurdish areas of Iraq on the birth - maybe - of a long-simmering nation-state.

Comments

|8.21.06 @ 6:23AM|#

Hizbollah bad, Peshmerga good?

The most stable area of Iraq is the one without U.S. soldiers?

|8.21.06 @ 6:36AM|#

"The most stable area of Iraq is the one without U.S. soldiers?"

You could also say that the most stable area had US military oversight for more than a decade.

|8.21.06 @ 9:09AM|#

Pretty cool article. As the author mentions there is some drama associated with having and independant Kurdistan.

I was thinking way back when the the Turks were being assholes about us going into Iraq, that we could have just said; hey we support and independant Kurdistan. Anybody that fucks with them fucks with us. And that would include parts of Syria, Iran, Turkey, and Iraq.

But then we really don't need another Israel, which is most likely what that would become.

So I am hoping that Iraq will slowly head in the direction of Kurdistan, and they will become one nation.

Syria and Turkey are still going to have their trouble with Kurds, but that is them.

thoreau|8.21.06 @ 9:23AM|#

kwais-

I also fear that Iraqi Kurdistan would turn into Israel (a Middle Eastern state that the US has to babysit) if it declared outright independence. Especially if Kurds in other countries tried to join them.

Having spent time there, do you think that Iraqi Kurdistan could pull off a Taiwan situation? Independence in every way that matters, but they utter some niceties about how they are still part of the same country to avoid a war?

I have a hunch that an openly independent Kurdistan would require lots of protection from us and generally be a pain. But something just short of that could probably work.

|8.21.06 @ 9:54AM|#

Isn't about time we actually started putting our money where our mouth is an support countries that actually do want liberty? I mean, we invade Iraq, a country that clearly doesn't value liberty as much as it should, and now we're too tied up in alliances and resources to support independence for an autonomous region that does. Same goes for Taiwan; for all the Bush-talk about supporting liberty around the world, we sure do engage in Kissenger-ian realpolitik an awful lot and ignore true, American-loving political movements.

|8.21.06 @ 10:18AM|#

Dr T,
I don't know. The thing is I think that if Kurdistan was as free as it is peacefull, it would be more like Taiwan in the flourishing economy sort of way.

Iraqi Kurdistan is almost at war with itself though. I mean Erbil has one leader and Suleymania has another, and it seemed to me that all kurds were on one side or the other. If you have a cell phone from one city, you can't call the other city. Or so it was.

I guess a portion of prosperity is held down by the inordinate amount of money of a recent born country being spent on security and defense.

|8.21.06 @ 1:47PM|#

As feel-good as it may be to create a Kurdistan out of Iraq ("hey, we accomplished something!") the fact is doing so would be a slap in the face of our long friend and ally Turkey, which frankly we don't need. Granted, the Turks probably don't treat the Kurds in their country very well, but most of their grievance seems to be that the Kurds are separatists.

Turkey is a modern state with separation between church and state. We used to be firm friends and allies, now the most popular movie in Turkish history is one in which the bad guys are the US government.

Kurdistan would be another primitive Islamic state, an "oil republic" dependent on American military might. Without American protection, it could well fall prey to invasion by Iran or whatever replaces Iraq. Instead of Israel, think Yugoslavia.

Robert|8.21.06 @ 11:21PM|#

WTF good is Turkey as friend & ally? The only way they maintain (alternately) separation of church & state is via what CODESH would call a "muscular secularism" that exceeds that of France, not by allowing religious freedom. Meanwhile I doubt Kurdistan would be another primitive Islamic state, any more than Israel is a primitive Jewish one.

|8.22.06 @ 1:16AM|#

I know Turkey, Syria, and Iran are not giving up any territory to help create a kurdish state. But what would be the reaction of non-kurdish Iraqis to the secession of their northern provinces?

Suppose the US supported the creation of a kurdish state out of the autonomous region in Iraq but not including any other country's territory. They could say "We'll recognize Kurdistan's independence on condition that you give equal rights to your own minorities, refrain from seeking more territory from your neighbors, and crack down on terrorist groups that try to operate within your juristdiction." Also they could work out some deal whereby they share Kirkuk's oil revenue with Iraq (or Sunni-Arab-land or whatever country ends up on their southern border). Would that kind of arrangement be workable?

I used to think "I know alot of kurds want independence but perhaps they will settle for increased autonomy within Iraq. It is probably better to go that route rather than exsaserbate sectarian tensions by pushing for an independent Kurdistan." Lately I am having doubts about that and this article increased my doubts. So now my main question is: Will most Iraqi non-kurds accept an independent Kurdistan? Would a significant number be willing to go to war to prevent one?

Side note: I wonder how many Iraqis who oppose a seperate Kurdistan only care because they fear an Iranian style Islamic theocracy and want kurdish votes to help prevent it.

Michael J. Totten|8.22.06 @ 2:04PM|#

Having spent time there, do you think that Iraqi Kurdistan could pull off a Taiwan situation? Independence in every way that matters, but they utter some niceties about how they are still part of the same country to avoid a war?

That's pretty much what they already have.

Michael J. Totten|8.22.06 @ 2:21PM|#

Iraqi Kurdistan is almost at war with itself though. I mean Erbil has one leader and Suleymania has another, and it seemed to me that all kurds were on one side or the other. If you have a cell phone from one city, you can't call the other city. Or so it was.

That's how it was when I was there gathering material for this article, in March. But I was just there again a month ago and both problems were fixed in the meantime.