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David Weigel | July 24, 2006

Ronald Bailey shoots up the hype and myths that have built up around child vaccinations.

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|7.24.06 @ 3:17PM|#

I've really come to the conclusion that autism is the new ADD - a catch-all excuse for kids who are difficult to deal with for any reason.

Just like ADD, there was once a real malady to which you could attach the label; just like ADD, it's become dilluted to the point of meaninglessness.

As for the link to thimerosal, it looks as though the McGill study has shot that theory pretty well full of holes.

|7.24.06 @ 3:24PM|#

Even if the vacinations did cause Autism, the people who refuse to vacinate their kids might want to look at the child mortality rates before the advent of vacinations. I think I would rather take my chances with autism than go back to the days when the measles killed millions.

|7.24.06 @ 3:25PM|#

As a soon-to-be parent (due date: August 24th) I can say that I won't be avoiding any vaccinations for my child. I will, however, be putting some of them off til later dates. There's no reason to be pumping my kid full of the stuff the first day out of the womb. Especially since the child isn't likely to be exposed to many of the ailments unless we plan on taking our 1 month old child to Kenya.

I'm pretty trustful of western medicine as a whole, but I'm wary of how quickly a procedure or treatment can go from "only when needed" to "standard operating procedure".

Robert|7.24.06 @ 3:33PM|#

There are reasons to be picky about vaccines. The push to vaccinate universally against hepatitis B is ridiculous. I admit that with the recombinant component vaccine the risk is tiny, but so is the benefit for children.

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 3:38PM|#

|7.24.06 @ 3:43PM|#

Clean Hands,

Having worked with kids diagnosed with both, I agree with you about ADD, but not so much about autism. Autism is a much more obvious and much more tragic diagnosis that reflects genuine and measurable brain disorders. That said, if the diagnosis trend follows that of ADD, I wouldn't be surprised if soon people will start to casually announce at parties, "Oh, I really hated it when my husband touched me and I felt so guilty about it until my doctor told me I was autistic!"

|7.24.06 @ 4:20PM|#

I've really come to the conclusion that autism is the new ADD - a catch-all excuse for kids who are difficult to deal with for any reason.

I'm sure it sounds insensitive, but I can't disagree with that. Autism seemingly encompasses so many behaviors -- and acts as an excuse for them.

And refusing to vaccinate against infectious diseases is just silly. I've heard the excuse that it's not a public health concern because everyone ELSE will be vaccinated. So let everyone else be given a vaccine that (supposedly) causes autism.

|7.24.06 @ 4:27PM|#

Chalk me up as one of the anti-vaccination freaks . I guess technically I'm not as much "anti-vaccination" as I am "anti-neurotoxin".

|7.24.06 @ 4:42PM|#

Bret,

Be prepared for the full court press you receive from your pediatrician. I'm not specifically anti-vaccination but since the number of recommended vaccinations has expanded so dramatically in the past 20 years I wanted to wait until my youngest was a little older before we started the process! I sign forms declining inoculations every time he goes in for a well-baby check!

|7.24.06 @ 4:44PM|#

I think maybe chickenpox gets more credit as a "mild disease" than it deserves. It can be pretty unpleasant, and have serious complications in rare cases. More than that, though, I would choose to spare my kids the possibility of developing shingles in later life.

|7.24.06 @ 4:45PM|#

What is that dark and leathery flapping?
The sound of the moonbats circling, of course.

|7.24.06 @ 4:46PM|#

I guess that the thing that set me off about autism is when I recently saw a kid - relatively normal and bright, if a bit on the odd side (and who among is wasn't - and isn't still???) "diagnosed" with a mild form of autism.

While they are using the "diagnosis" to seek various forms of treatment that are probably not harmful to him (one-on-one attention, that sort of thing), there's also a definite sense now whenever he does something odd that it would be dreadfully impolite to say anything about his behaviour. After all, it's not his choice - it's his disorder.

Please note that I say this with a great deal of experience with kids myself - some of them are just harder than others, few of the "hard" kids have disorders that need treatment. When a "diagnosis" is rendered, the kids get a pass for their behavior (subtly or openly), and the parents are likewise given a pass from having to do anything about them.

I get really suspicious at behavioral "disorders" with exploding diagnosis rates... such as autism.

|7.24.06 @ 4:50PM|#

Are the moonbats the ones that inherently disbelieve gov't unless they are talking about vaccines, or are the moonbats the ones that don't want a disproportionate amount of mercury flushed into a newborn's body because the 'odds are' it is safe?

I can never figure it out. I�m sure you�ll enlighten me though.

|7.24.06 @ 4:57PM|#

The one vaccine I truly oppose is the chicken-pox vaccine. Chicken pox is a mild annoyance if you get it as a child, but can become a serious problem if you get it after adolescence. And as I understand it, the CP vaccine does not grant a lifetime immunity; it only lasts for about 20 years.

Amen to that. I was successful in getting my oldest two children exposed to chicken pox so that they actually contracted the disease. Unfortunately, despite my and my wife's best efforts, the pro-vaccination forces have been so successful that we haven't been able to find anyone to infect our younger three. Now that Number Three Daughter is approaching puberty, we'll probably have to have her vaccinated, with strict instructions to remember to get boosters for the rest of her life.

|7.24.06 @ 5:01PM|#

Yeah, I agree with you Clean Hands. It's just a shame, because severe autism is a nightmare, while actual severe ADDHD (which I think is even more rare than autism and I raise an eyebrow everytime I hear someone claim it) is relatively manageable.

And I agree that the reflexive reaction from parents and teachers is to give diagnosed kids a pass, which is a huge disservice to them.

|7.24.06 @ 5:04PM|#

I have some friends who live in Happy McHippieville, I mean Oregon, and I may be out of line for saying this, but thankfully the state makes any kids on state aid get all their shots. Knowing what I know about those goofy hippies and childbirth/healthcare (don't ask - it's a tragic and horrifying story), those freaks would put their distrust of anybody working for the Man before the safety of their children.

Bret,

My first baby is almost 4 months old. The only vaccination they gave him at the hospital was Hep B. The first real round of vaccines came at the 2 month visit. We go back in a week for his second round. I don't know why Hep B differs. Maybe the hospital itself is a risky place for Hep B, so they hit you while you're there.

|7.24.06 @ 5:07PM|#

wingflapper,

Considering that there's no evidence that vaccines preserved in mercury are harmful (despite which, it's quickly being phased out) and considering that the rate of autism diagnoses has continued to climb in parts of the world where mercury preservatives were discontinued years ago, it's not really reasonable to fear vaccines because of them.

That said, I think conservative wingnuts are just as nutty as liberal moonbats. There's plenty of irrationality to go around.

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 5:07PM|#

I think maybe chickenpox gets more credit as a "mild disease" than it deserves. It can be pretty unpleasant, and have serious complications in rare cases.

I'm not saying chicken pox was pleasant (although the part where I got to stay home from school for a couple weeks was pretty sweet), but the unpleasantness of getting chicken pox as a child is far less than the unpleasantness of getting chicken pox as an adult.

As for the rare cases that result in serious complications for children--I don't mean to sound callous here, but having one child in twenty thousand develop serious problems from childhood chicken pox is better than having something like five hundred adults in twenty thousand develop serious problems from adult chicken pox.

(I just made those numbers up; I have no idea what the real ones are. But I'm willing to bet that this vaccine will result in a large number of suffering adults for every one child saved.)

Jim Lesczynski|7.24.06 @ 5:08PM|#

ATR wrote:
And refusing to vaccinate against infectious diseases is just silly. I've heard the excuse that it's not a public health concern because everyone ELSE will be vaccinated. So let everyone else be given a vaccine that (supposedly) causes autism.

How is that silly? It sounds like compelling logic to me. Long live the free-riders!

|7.24.06 @ 5:10PM|#

I have another hypothesis for recent proliferation of autism: that couples are choosing to become parents at a much later age than they did even just twenty years ago.

The link below is for the relationship between Downs Syndrome, whose rates have also gone up recently, and mothers 35 and older
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/birthdefects/f/down_syn_causes.htm
but I strongly suspect that there's a similar risk for autism (it is linked to a genetic defect much as Downs). Those same couples are also more likely to have put off having children to advance their careers first, bringing the educated correlation into play.

Correlation: eduacted parents; Causation: old mothers?

|7.24.06 @ 5:14PM|#

Wingflapper- As Les pointed out, there's plenty of irrationality on both sides. That was my (smartass) point. I must admit, though, that the moonbattery quotient is pretty low so far.

As for the chicken pox vaccine: I'm well past puberty, (with the 5 chest hairs to prove it), and have never had chicken pox. For people like me, the vaccine is a good thing, 20 year boosters or no.

If I have any real concern about MMR, it's that it seems to fail pretty regularly. There was an outbreak of measles and mumps around here recently, and the majority of those infected had been vaccinated.

|7.24.06 @ 5:14PM|#

fish,

Thanks for the heads up. We have a midwife who will supposedly act as our advocate at the hospital, but I'm sure it's still going to require a lot of patience and will.

high,

congratulations. I went to a seminar on vaccinations and was under the impression that they were other vaccinations they gave you on day zero. Perhaps I'm wrong, I have a spreadsheet of that around here somewhere. Thanks for the info though. I, too live in Happy MicHippieville (not of the oregon variety but of the CA variety) and while I distrust government in general, this decision is based solely on my child's welfare. If it were up to the government, on my wife's due date labor would be induced with synthetic hormones, she and the baby would be drugged, sensitive parts of her anatomy would be sliced open, and the baby would be extracted with forseps and vacuum suction. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't trust them to shoot my kid full of formaldehyde and mercury on the first day considering the care and sensitivy they used during the labor process.

The real question is what happens when I tell the person who hands me the social security registration form to go to hell?

Sandy|7.24.06 @ 5:15PM|#

I'd be all for vaccine deniers not vaccinating their kids if it didn't increase the risk for the general population. Otherwise it would be a self-correcting problem.

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 5:21PM|#

I'm well past puberty, (with the 5 chest hairs to prove it), and have never had chicken pox. For people like me, the vaccine is a good thing, 20 year boosters or no.

Yes, it is a good thing for people like you. Heck, even I might have benefited; I caught it on the cusp between childhood and puberty, and came down with a super nasty case that leaves me with residual problems today. My complaint is with the idea of vaccinating infants, thus ensuring it will be impossible for them to get it while they're still young enough to just shrug it off (so to speak).

|7.24.06 @ 5:38PM|#

Jennifer- Your point about vaccinating infants against chicken pox is a fair one. I could be very wrong, but I think when the vaccine first came out, it wasn't really intended for children.

|7.24.06 @ 5:54PM|#

Could be worse. You could have gotten the smallpox vaccination. I was scarred for life.

Yes, that's a joke. Jeez. When did they stop with that shot? I know that I got it and my brother didn't, so it must've stopped around the late 1960s.

|7.24.06 @ 5:55PM|#

1. shots: I never understood the idea behind declining vaccinations. I actually read that Lancet article back when I was pregnant with Andy and even to my untrained eye, the tiny sample and even tinier number of kids with the bugs in their tummies made me suspicious.

2. Jennifer, on your chicken pox discussion, never underestimate parental convenience in this. I got both my sons vaccinated both to save them from an unpleasant illness, but also because I'd rather use that week it takes for them to get over the illness doing something fun with them. Since they've been vaccinated, they're unlikely to get chicken pox while they're living at home. Yeah, it's dreadfully selfish of me. The doctor salved my conscience by telling me kids who get chicken pox are more likely to develop shingles than people who get it as an adult. We'll see.

3. Autism, and learning disorders in general: I wonder if the increase in diagnoses can also be attributed to the huge increase in the importance of higher education and reading skills in the workforce? A person with autism or Down's, provided it's not too severe a case, can be a perfectly happy subsistence farmer, but that's not really a career option in 21st C. North America. It was only in 1963 that more than 50% of the kids who entered high school graduated. Before WWII, there were a large number of school districts that didn't even have all 12 grades, and many kids dropped out in 8th grade. I know that autism is diagnosed at much younger ages, but isn't it possible that lots of kids with autism-spectrum disorders didn't finish school and went on to perfectly normal lives as mechanics or something. Since then, each generation has produced more educated parents, who in turn seek more education for their own kids. Motivated and learned parents will notice problems with their kids at earlier ages and seek treatment. Thus, the apparent increase in the number of kids with this disorder is an artifact of more people looking and doesn't really demonstrate an actual increase.

Xmas|7.24.06 @ 6:01PM|#

There's a growing group of parents in the US that think that some forms of childhood autism are food allergy related. I know that personal stories are kinda pointless when talking about trends, but my much younger cousin was diagnosed with mild autism when he was young. His parents put him on a gluten-free and casein-free diet, and his symptoms disappear.

When he's not in school during the summer, they relax and let him eat wheat and dairy products. They certainly notice a change in his personality when he eats the wrong foods.

Here's a somewhat unnutty website on it: http://www.autism.org/leakygut.html

|7.24.06 @ 6:03PM|#

"…I'm willing to bet that this vaccine will result in a large number of suffering adults for every one child saved."

Is there any reason to disbelieve the information provided by one of the first links you get when Googling chicken pox vaccination? Those numbers suggest that the death rate for adults versus children is 20:1, but that's not taking immunization into account. According to the article, the vaccine lasts so long that a booster isn't yet recommended.

Still willing to bet? I'd like to know the definition of "large number", "suffering" and "saved" you'd want to use, but it sounds like a bet I'd love to make.

There are 2,459 reasons why making up numbers doesn't strengthen one's argument.

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 6:05PM|#

Since they've been vaccinated, they're unlikely to get chicken pox while they're living at home.

But now they're far more likely to get it while adults. I caught my case of it in very early puberty (still more child than adult), and I got it bad. Out of school for over two weeks--if I'd been an adult and had to miss those two weeks of work it could have led to serious career/financial problems. I also got the pock-makrs internally; my inner throat was so bad I went through over a box of Jello Pudding Pops a day, because the cold pudding offered a little relief to an itch I couldn't scratch. To this day the inside of my throat is scarred so badly I have extreme trouble swallowing pills and other things; everything catches in my throat. I also got pox inside my ears so thickly that (IIRC) for a couple of days I lost hearing in one ear, since the ear canal was almost completely blocked off by the damn things.

Persnally, if I had kids and I had the choice, I'd rather lose a week of fun with them while they're young, than make them experience the two weeks of misery I went through when they're older.

Also, Karen, do you want to be a grandmother someday? Get your kids enough of those internal scars in just the right places, and the chance of that happening will drop significantly. In my case, I never wanted kids anyway so I never bothered to find out whether or not I could have any. But considering all the other problems chicken pox left me with, I wouldn't be surprised to discover I'd have one hell of a time conceiving if I wanted to.

|7.24.06 @ 6:07PM|#

Query: Why would a vaccination cause more trouble than the full-blown disease?

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 6:14PM|#

I'd like to know the definition of "large number", "suffering" and "saved" you'd want to use

Large number: (adjective/noun combo) any number bigger than the number of sufferers there would have been without infant vaccination.

Suffering: (verb) to suffer; to experience medical difficulties; the opposite of pleasure.

Saved: (verb) in this case refers to a child who avoids what would otherwise have been a bad reaction to a case of chicken pox.

I hope this clarifies matters.

|7.24.06 @ 6:15PM|#

PL: Probably never in terms of absolute magnitude, but if you factor in the probability of getting such a disease in your risk calculation it might be worth thinking about.

|7.24.06 @ 6:18PM|#

Bret,

Are you delivering using the Bradley method?
About 5 days before the due date we went to one last Ob/Gyn appointment where the doc told us the fluids were low and that he would not let us leave the hospital without giving birth. The wife fought the doc every step of the way, because she wanted all natural - no inducing drugs. Long story short: they gave her pitocin, but she refused the painkillers. I now know who truly wears the pants in our family. She is a hell of a trooper. The Bradley method was very helpful. Email me if you want to hear the gory details.

|7.24.06 @ 6:27PM|#

highnumber,

she won't be using the formal Bradley method but she will be having it naturally. With that said we're not nearly as dedicated to a natural birth as your wife was and are more than willing to use any of the unnatural methods if complications arise. Which pretty much sums up our outlook: that certain procedures and treatments originally intended to treat complications shouldn't be used as standard operating procedure because they carry with them complications. The biggest violation of this, as I see it, is the use of the epidural.

|7.24.06 @ 6:28PM|#

Jennifer, your bout with the chicken pox sounds horrible. You poor thing.

Seriously, the actual reason I had Andy and Aaron get that particular shot is that the pediatrician requires it for her patients. Also, she assured me that if they did get the disease, they'd have a much less serious case of it. Apparently the same thing works for most other vaccines as well; if the affection is bad enough to actually cause symptoms, those symptoms will be less severe.

|7.24.06 @ 6:32PM|#

When did they stop with that shot? I know that I got it and my brother didn't, so it must've stopped around the late 1960s.

After successful vaccination campaigns, the WHO in 1979[1] certified the eradication of smallpox,.... Smallpox vaccinations were discontinued in most countries in the 1970s as the morbidity and mortality of vaccination by then exceeded the risk of infection by a disease extinct in the wild.

I last got one in about 1971. They were making a big push on it in Canada at the time.

I got the full course of the Salk polio vaccine in 5th grade (1957). Everyone knew one or more kids with steel leg braces (or worse) in those days so there was plenty of incentive to go through with it.

|7.24.06 @ 6:36PM|#

Hmmm... I'm surprised that you'd define "large number" as "one or more", but even so, I'll take the bet. We should probably make it for something small, since it's unlikely that there will be an easy way to convince the other person that the bet has been won. How about a round of whatever intoxicants are legal wherever we meet after (if ever) the other party concedes?

There's already a study that suggests that the death rate (and adults appear to be about twenty times more likely to die from chickenpox than children) has declined due to the vaccine. Perhaps in ten, twenty, thirty or more years we'll hear about the problems you believe will occur, but that seems exceedingly unlikely since vaccine technology keeps improving and the likelihood of exposure to live chickenpox should continue to decrease.

Robert|7.24.06 @ 7:10PM|#

When I was in medical school, chicken pox was given as an example of a disease for which it was unlikely a vaccine would be developed, it being hard to sell the benefit vs. the risk. But that was before recombinant component products.

|7.24.06 @ 7:31PM|#

I don't think you can completely discount mercury yet. The American study has the same flaw that the Canadian study does. They both assume that as soon as Thimerosal was discontinued, any vaccinations that took place after that date were Thimerosal-free. But they don't account for the fact that vaccinations sit on the shelf for some time after they are produced. In fact, Thimerosal is in vaccines for its preservative abilities.

|7.24.06 @ 7:34PM|#

The doctor salved my conscience by telling me kids who get chicken pox are more likely to develop shingles than people who get it as an adult. We'll see.

Well, I got the disease as a kid, and developed shingles when I was an adult. I'd still rather my children get chicken pox before puberty. (As it happens, my eldest daughter got the chicken pox *from* my shingles.)

|7.24.06 @ 7:42PM|#

"oh, doctors are just diagnosing autism more" isn't good enough. If so, where are all of the 20 year old autistic people we weren't diagnosing then, but would now due to more relaxed standards?

Something caused the autism rates to rise, and assuming injecting 100 times the proposed limit of mercury into an infant may not be a bad place to start looking.

Given what the gov't has done to protect vaccine producers ought to double your suspicions.

|7.24.06 @ 8:00PM|#

Hey, fool, the gov't acted to keep the ambulance-chasers from putting the vaccine producers out of business entirely.

As for where the "20 year old autistic people" are now, they're leading normal, productive lives... which was my whole point. Much of what's "diagnosed" now as "omygoditsautism" falls within - perhaps at one end or another, but within - the range of normal, operational human behavior.

Just like ADD/ADHD before it...

Guest|7.24.06 @ 8:01PM|#

Some web sites with information about vaccination.
"Quackwatch.org" is a recommended site.

And a hello from the Viking Moose (who is sitting right here)
-- Eric the Guest

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/gl/vaccines1.htm

http://www.immunize.org/concerns/

http://www.rainbowpediatrics.net/faq/18.10.html

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/6mishome.htm

http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm

http://quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html

http://www.acahf.org.au/

http://quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/immu00.html

|7.24.06 @ 8:04PM|#

Kids, kids, kids.

Isn't it possible that we HAVE broadened our definition of what autism is and pumping mercury into your child is still a bad idea?

|7.24.06 @ 8:06PM|#

Bret - don't go getting all reasonable on us, now.

Bretigne|7.24.06 @ 8:09PM|#

For those interested in a more balanced view of vaccines and their potential dangers, check out this article . This guy recommends a conservative vaccine schedule for those parents who are concerned about the risks but don't want to abandon vaccines altogether. He recommends more vaccines than I would go for, but his arguments are good, and I particularly like his discussion of how a vaccine interacts with the developing brain's immune system.

A few points:

1) The autism-thimerosal link is only one of many potential problems with vaccines. (Personally, I still haven't made up my mind on this one - there are problems with the studies that show there is no link, just as there are with the studies that show there may be one. And the Amish issue
is still an open question for me.) Autoimmune disorders have risen dramatically since the introduction of vaccines, as has the incidence of life-threatening allergies, childhood diabetes, etc. And there is evidence linking many of these conditions to vaccines.

2) Vaccine companies do not deny that vaccines can be dangerous. In fact, every year, parents of children who have been harmed or killed by vaccines are compensated for the injury or death caused. The only point of contention is determining what the real numbers and the full effects are. Two points leave me less than confident in the vaccine makers' claims: First, the fact that safety trials do not look at long-term effects, but only at immediate harm caused by vaccines; and second, the many accounts of parents whose children had violent seizures or other symptoms, sometimes ending in death, who have had to fight (often unsuccessfully) to get their dr.s to report their child's death or injury as being vaccine related. That leads me to seriously question the official numbers.

3) Ron doesn't mention that the Cochrane Library review that found "no credible evidence behind claims of harm from the MMR vaccination" also had this to say about MMR: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre-and post-marketing, are largely inadequate" and "We found only limited evidence of the safety of MMR compared to its single component vaccines..." Nor does he refer readers to criticism of the Quebec study he cites. Apparently, more than 90% of the autism cases found in this study were among students who were born when the thimerosal vaccines were still in use.

Jennifer|7.24.06 @ 10:42PM|#

Here's a plan: instead of chicken-pox vaccinations, which only increase the chance that today's children will grow up to suffer something as bad as what I had (if not worse), how about deliberate chicken-pox infections? Say, the August before starting kindergarten. (It's probably too hot to go outside anyway, so staying indoors wouldn't be such a loss for the kid.) We can give it a nice marketing name like "organic vaccine."

A controlled, mild dose of chicken pox would probably benefit more kids than a vaccination striving to prevent the disease altogether.

|7.24.06 @ 11:33PM|#

"A controlled, mild dose of chicken pox would probably benefit more kids than a vaccination striving to prevent the disease altogether."

Except science doesn't suggest that to be the case. Such a plan would be much worse for children and the adults that the children become.

Chicken-pox vaccinations do much more than increasing the chance that today's children will grow up to suffer something as bad as what you had. The vaccines greatly reduce the chance that the kids will get chicken pox and so far, that reduction in risk appears to last so long that boosters aren't needed.

Furthermore, the vaccines significantly reduce the chance of shingles in the future. Shingles are another way that chickenpox is spread.

If in twenty years it turns out that boosters are needed (and the only place I've seen the twenty year figure is your own comments), it's extremely likely that they'll be able to produce boosters that do a great job. In the meantime, you have twenty years of kids (largely) not getting chicken pox and a significant reduction in deaths and extreme complications.

How can someone who states "I just made those numbers up; I have no idea what the real ones are" possibly come to the conclusion that giving everyone chickenpox will be a net benefit? Papers and numbers are available on the internet. All of the credible ones suggest you are very mistaken and that's not even taking into consideration the fact that vaccination technology is improving regularly.

What's the most credible citation you can provide that suggests:

"CP vaccine does not grant a lifetime immunity; it only lasts for about 20 years."

I can't find anything that suggests that, although the Rainbow Pediatrics URL provided above says:

The vast majority of the time, childhood infectious diseases are benign and self-limiting. They also may impart lifelong immunity, whereas vaccine-induced immunity is only temporary. In fact, the temporary nature of vaccine immunity can create a more dangerous situation in a child's future. For example, the new chicken pox vaccine has an effectiveness estimated at 6 - 10 years. If effective, it will postpone the child's vulnerability until adulthood, when death from the disease is 20 times more likely.

I don't know where the author gets his information about the Varicella Vaccine, but all the available literature indicates that the vaccine will give life-long immunity. There is no entrant recommendation for booster doses in adulthood. Certainly, if the vaccine were ever found to 'wear off' after time, a booster dose could then be given to prevent adult Chicken Pox.

If you're going to continue the chickenpox vaccine scare, can you at least provide some numbers or URLs or other citations?

|7.24.06 @ 11:53PM|#

Robert is correct to say be picky about vaccines. Vaccines have side effects..and yes, children die or are perm. disabled.

The US Gov. has a fund where parents of children who die can be compensated monetarily--if vaccines were completly safe, then the program would not exist. The sad comment is that to get information on this program, the parent of the injured child must pay money to get a brochure (since the last time I checked).

When I went into nursing school I was required to get the Hept. B vaccine. I broke out in boils all over my body. I still have numerous knots under the skin (caused by clumps of nerve cells). Who knows what it did to my insides.

People should realize that vaccines have additives. Whether or not it causes autism is debatable. But even the flu vaccine can contain all kinds of things you would not want to put in your body.

Vaccines are a risk vs. benefit. But it is NOT true that they they are 100% safe. They are not.

And I really dont understand the Gov. pushing them on citizens when they dont care one way or another if illegals are transmitting diseases.

|7.25.06 @ 12:00AM|#

Also, it is important to follow the money.

Several years ago there was a Lyme vaccine. It passed the FDA very quickly.

Unfort. there was a catch--if you carried a certain gene (aprx. 30% of the population) the vaccine could kill you or put you in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.

There were numerous injuries and the vaccine was pulled from the market.

It was revealed later that members of the FDA advisory committee held stock in the company that produced the vaccine (smithkline).

This was not seen as a legal problem because these individuals signed a statement saying that holding stock would not influence their decision.

How do we know that researchers in the McGill study dont own stock in the vaccine(s)?--we dont.

I am not saying that they do, but things are not always what they seem to be.

|7.25.06 @ 12:08AM|#

I have Amish relatives and I dont think they are a good study group due to inbreeding.

The Amish may not have autism but they have huge rates of SIDS, maple urine disease, downs syndrome, and now dwarfism. And several other defects.

A defect can sometimes protect you from another condition. Per example, sickle cell people do not get malaria. They are protected. Therefore, you would never test the reliability of a malaria vaccine on a group of people known to have high rates of sickle cell.

|7.25.06 @ 5:36AM|#

there's also a definite sense now whenever he does something odd that it would be dreadfully impolite to say anything about his behaviour. After all, it's not his choice - it's his disorder.

If all the smart kids had this excuse when they were young... MAN! The shit we could have gotten away with! Not that there's much that stops a driven and capable individual, but....

|7.25.06 @ 5:51AM|#

Also, some people need to realize that life is a bitch. Viruses are so effective that they've even made the jump into a purely Information based medium (the net). (Virus definition: An instruction set designed to exploit execution engines for the purposes of replication).

The argument that there is a recompensation program for losses indicates the danger of anti-viral activities ignores the cost-benefit analysis that went into the the decision to implement said anti-viral activites and ameriolate their side effects.

Congratulations, you've identified that both courses of action have a cost. How simplistically perceptive.

Fundamentally, all reality cares about in a world of self-replicating mimetic machines, is what instruction set survives. Optimizing those ratios in favor of preserving higher orders of data is what is important.

Of course many people have an observational bias towards their primary genetic data vectors (aka children), but that's only to be expected.

Karl Gallagher|7.25.06 @ 3:22PM|#

We've contemplated the delayed/reduced schedule for our kids, but haven't been able to find a doctor willing to administer it. Now we can't get them seen by a pediatrician at all. Apparently letting a kid leave the office w/o vaccinations looks bad in malpractice suits, so they just refuse to keep non-vaccinated kids as regular patients. Fortunately GPs don't have that problem.

My take after many years of raising an autistic kid and researching the issue:

1. Nobody has a clue what does or does not cause autism.
2. Medical researchers get published with data sets so small relative to the frequency of occurrence that other fields would laugh them out of peer review.
3. 24 vaccinations in 18 months is way past the point of diminishing returns for infants who haven't finished developing their immune systems.
4. The official doctrine in favor of 100% vaccination has prevented research on how many shots are too many (either total or in a single session) or on warning signs that indicate a predisposition to bad reactions (such as a family history of autoimmune disorders).
5. Most of the improvement in childhood health comes from clean water and good sewers, not vaccinations.

Right now we're conducting a huge experiment in how many vaccinations kids can get before we overwhelm their immune systems. Mine are in the control group.