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David Weigel | June 1, 2006

Stalwart Juventus supporter Michael Young urges calm in the Italian soccer crisis.

Comments

|6.1.06 @ 11:33AM|#

Second, revisit Branzburg v. Hayes, the decision that says reporters can be forced, on pain of jail-time, to reveal leakers. While the Court dodged an opportunity to reconsider Branzburg in the Valerie Plame scandal, other cases are percolating through the courts. Expanding the privilege will embolden leakers, making it harder for the president to conceal home-turf snooping.

After the whistleblower decision, this seems even more unlikely with the current court.

It doesn't seem like the court is too interested in holding government responsible.

|6.1.06 @ 11:40AM|#

HAHA! Reap it Juventus!! And I hope AC Milan get screwed too.

Can you imagine what the Italians must be like in the EU, if this is the sort of crap they get up to in Sport.

Still, they might do well in the World Cup. Luca Toni is on fire at the moment.

|6.1.06 @ 11:49AM|#

Sorry for the erroneous post -- it should have gone in another thread....

|6.1.06 @ 12:08PM|#

No offence Mr Young, but I would love it if Juve get relegated. Nedved is already off at the end of the world cup, Viera's been linked with Arsenal again, Trez wouldn't stay. It would be great to see them languish in Seria B for a couple of seasons.

Of course, it won't happen, but it would be funny.

|6.1.06 @ 12:21PM|#

The opportunity cost of lost television broadcasting and advertising revenues would be colossal, while the team would also lose its most illustrious players and its renowned coach.

good riddance.

Warren|6.1.06 @ 12:30PM|#

[sarcastic voice]WTF Michael? It's quaint the way you prattle on and on about politics in some Mid-East backwater no one cares about. Those articles lend nice wonkish undertones to Reason. But this is soccer for fucks sake. Not only doesn't anybody give two shits, but in the grand scheme of things, it has less impact than which cities are included on Mariah Carey's new tour.[/sv]

|6.1.06 @ 12:31PM|#

Italian fans are the worst in the EU -- from Lazio's fascist salute after goals to Livorno's communists allegiance to the violent off stadium attacks by Roma's Ultras to general racism directed toward African players in the form of monkey chants and throwing banana's on the pitch.

A lot of Italian Americans are going to Germany to support the Italian team and when they meet actual Italian fans they'll learn why their relatives fled that wretched place.

Serie A and its 'fans' gets what it deserves. Support a better league Mr. Young.

Every other EU country with history of violence and racism has cleaned up its act (sans Spain and Poland), England most notably where it's now very safe to attend a match in the top three divisions or so.

In addition the quality of Italian soccer has dropped a lot over the years. Once you get past the top 5-6 clubs the quality takes a massive nosedive to the point I'd rather watch MLS.

My only hope is the guilty conscience of the Italian players haunts them into losing to the US in a few weeks and dropping out in the first round.

|6.1.06 @ 12:42PM|#

But this is soccer for fucks sake. Not only doesn't anybody give two shits, but in the grand scheme of things, it has less impact than which cities are included on Mariah Carey's new tour.[/sv]

Shut up Warren you, you, you turd!

And don't call it Soccer numbnuts.

|6.1.06 @ 1:35PM|#

Yeah, bite me Warren.

|6.1.06 @ 1:41PM|#

Anyways, thanks Michael for coming uip with a libertarian esxcuse for talking about the World Cup.

Spur,
I doubt their consciences will bother them that much. :)

I do think that Czech Republic will spank em' though.

|6.1.06 @ 1:57PM|#

Warren, in a week's time we shall see if no one gives a shit about "football" (appreciative wink Mark, for dismissing the silly word "soccer"). Mark, I fear Juventus will be relegated, and I would approve, as a new start is absolutely necessary. I predict Italy will go much further than anyone predicts. The pressure is off, the cup is ours! Forza Italia!

|6.1.06 @ 2:08PM|#

If Juve get relegated will they get rid of that horrible stadium they rarely get to within 25% capacity?

Italy isn't going anywhere this year -- they have no diversity in their players, all 23 come from Serie Blah, the only other WC team that have all 23 coming from the domestic league is the Saudi Arabians. They also won't get a break from the ref's when they dive and howl and play defensive, passive aggressive football.

The Italians won't be able to play properly without lighters and flares being thrown onto the pitch. The only place they'd feel at home playing outside of Italy is Jerkey...

|6.1.06 @ 2:56PM|#

I read an article recently where the author said, perhaps only half jokingly, that the problem could be that there is no term for "conflict of interest" in the Italian language. Belusconi being prime minister, running the TV, and owning AC Milan all at the same time, now appears to be a quaint factoid next to what's being found.

Won't shed any tears for Juve or any of the others. Send them all down to Serie C2. The fire sales should provide an entertainingly perverse companion story to the World Cup this summer.

Also, wasn't it Fiorentina that just made it back to Serie A after a multi-level relegation a few years ago? And now they're at it again?

|6.1.06 @ 5:18PM|#

I hope the scandal does cause some distractions for the Italians, as the second place team from group E will be facing the winner of group F, almost certainly Brazil. Be nice to knock them off while they have their head turned.

|6.1.06 @ 5:25PM|#

erm...be nice [for the US] to knock off [Italy] while they have their head turned [by the scandal, because winning the group would mean a much easier quarterfinal match.]

Last time I checked, British bookies had the US as 10-1 longshots to win the group, and 100-1 to win the Cup. I agree we're a dark horse, but these odds are a tad long. Since the nanny/asshole state has enacted banking laws that stop me from depositing money into my internet bookies, I'm forced to ask my friend in Britain to place some bets for me.

|6.1.06 @ 5:33PM|#

Something isn't right. A Michael Young column where Syria isn't blamed! How is that possible?

|6.1.06 @ 5:51PM|#

A Michael Young column where Syria isn't blamed! How is that possible?

Lebanon must have beaten them in the run-up to the cup.

|6.1.06 @ 5:55PM|#

I can't bring in Syria to a discussion of Juve but its worth noting that the team Mr. Young supports is partially owned by Libya and one of Kaddafi's sons played in the reserve squad for a couple seasons as a favour to Tripoli.

Of course Libya is now an upstanding nation, but of course only because we invaded Iraq or something.

|6.1.06 @ 6:00PM|#

Indy worm says:
"Also, wasn't it Fiorentina that just made it back to Serie A after a multi-level relegation a few years ago? And now they're at it again?"

Yes.

And Parma went down the tubes after its sponsor, take a quick guess: Parmalat was found to be corrupt.

Also, the US made it to the 1/4 finals in 2002 and is ranked 10 places higher than Italy in the FIFA rankings, which are crap, but we are about equal with them on talent, just not on long worn out reputation and expectation. The Czechs are the highes ranked at 2nd and Ghana are wrongly ranked in the 50s IIRC.

|6.1.06 @ 6:46PM|#

the US made it to the 1/4 finals in 2002

Turkey made it to the semi-final in 2002 and didn't qualify this year. What happens in a single tournament doesn't count for much. The key is sustained success over the years.

Goldman Sachs puts the US odds to winning it all at 80 to 1 (compared to 11 to 4 for Brazil). That doesn't mean that the US can't make it, but lets be realistic here.

|6.2.06 @ 2:05AM|#

Will Mr. Young consider supporting - oh, I don't know - the US, maybe?

Christ.

Anyway, it's always a schadenfreude-filled joy to see one of the big clubs get the hammer dropped on them. Still waiting to see Real Madrid have some accusations of shady deals actually stick for once.

Whoever's knocking on MLS, cut it out. It's our league and it really isn't half-bad for being 11 years old with comparatively tiny payrolls. It's provided the US with unprecedented depth this time around.

Unfortunately, we got fucked at the draw, where Mexico got one of the 8 seeds instead of the US, who has beaten those slimy green fuckers like a drum for a while.

Then again, last time we were all told we'd be lucky to take a point from our group matches ('02), we sent Portugal home early AND the reprehensible Mexies. Should have sent the Germans home, too, if not for that blind Scotsman with the whistle.

Fuck you, Hugh Dallas!

|6.2.06 @ 5:57AM|#

Turkey made it to the semi-final in 2002 and didn't qualify this year. What happens in a single tournament doesn't count for much. The key is sustained success over the years.

True, but qualifying out of Europe is the hardest of any of the geographic areas. There are more evenly matched teams qualifying for fewer spots. South America has Brazil & Argentina, and then there's a drop off in talent. Europe has a bunch of elite national teams. More importantly, the "second tier" national teams are much closer in talent level to the elites than, say, Ecuador is to Argentina.

Hey Timon - what happened to your Crew Wednesday? That was ugly.

|6.2.06 @ 1:01PM|#

Penguin - I don't want to talk about it. Maybe it's the fact that all four of our keepers are injured and we had to go out and get "the best 3rd team keeper in the league" and sit him in favor of a guy who's been out of the league for 2 years doing camps. Couple that with playing DC in RFK (our bogey ground), and we're fucked.

As for Europe, sure the first and second tiers are pretty close, but you have a slew of San Marino/Andorra/Leichtenstein-level teams that make up the numbers. With the exception of one or two groups in Europe each time around, finishing no worse than second (a playoff spot) isn't that hard.

South America has a murderous 18-game, single-table qualifying campaign. Then again, the fact that it's so long tends to leave the top teams time to get on track.

CONCACAF, for as poor as everyone below Mexico and the US (and sometimes Costa Rica) is, has one hell of a qualifying system full of potential elimination points. It can exceed 22 games, IIRC.

But the point does stand - there are several very good teams that can get left out from Europe.