David Weigel | May 1, 2006
This, from The New York Times, is truly inspiring: Americans are telling their Congressfolk that they don't want rebate checks.
Under the proposal, $100 checks would be sent late this summer to an estimated 100 million taxpayers, regardless of car ownership. Single taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes above about $146,000 would be ineligible for the checks, as would couples earning more than about $219,000. The $100 figure was determined by Mr. Frist's office, which calculated that the average driver would pay about $11 per month in federal gas taxes over nine months.
...
But disapproval started flowing in almost as soon as the idea surfaced, said aides in several Republican offices. One senior aide to a Southern lawmaker said the calls were surprisingly harsh. Some complained that the rebate would amount to only two fill-ups at the gas station.
A few excerpts really don't do justice to the stupidity practically oozing from the rebate supporters quoted here--senators, consultants, pollsters.
If you're interested in oil-related hysteria, check out Tim Cavanaugh's column on the subject or Ronald Bailey's May cover story on peak oil.
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Anything they do is going to most likely not going to fix anything and probably make it worse. If they want to give me back my money (even a paultry amount that will most likely be re-taxed at tax time) I am not going to complain.
$100 bucks is insultingly bad. It's typical that clueless
elitist Senators would think that a $100 check would significantly
help those pore-an'-starvin' working class folks drive their Chevys
to the local Wal-Mart, and thus buy their undying loyalty in the
next election.
If they really wanted to help Americans during the summer
driving season they'd suspend the federal gas tax from Memorial Day
to Labor Day. But since that would cost them money
and vividly illustrate the cost of government to
the average citizen, they won't do it.
So if you drive 1000 miles per month, and get an average of 25 miles per gallon,and if gas prices have gone up $1 per gallon, you're spending an extra $480 per year, or $40 per month. How many people who are whinging about higher gas prices (which are, as noted, lower than most of the developed world) can't spend an extra $40 per month, or drive less, or trade in to get a car with better gas mileage. Babies. (feeling dyspeptic today).
Hmm... for years Republicans campaigned AGAINST this sort of
thing... now they're doing it? I mean, while I'll take the check, I
still object to this on principle.
Fiscal Conservatism is truly dead. What reason does a
socially-liberal federalist/minarchist like myself have to vote for
the GOP these days?
Yeah, that's right- NONE.
I'll take the free money, though.
Agreed. 100 bucks is 100 bucks. In lieu of them doing anything
else, it's fine.
Except I'm not sure how they are planning to pay for it.
"If they really wanted to help Americans during the summer
driving season they'd suspend the federal gas tax from Memorial Day
to Labor Day. But since that would cost them money and vividly
illustrate the cost of government to the average citizen, they
won't do it."
How about just get rid of it all together? That sounds like a great
idea. I'll still take my stupid $100 if that is all they are going
to do. It belongs to me anyway. Take my wife out to dinner.
"So if you drive 1000 miles per month, and get an average of 25
miles per gallon,and if gas prices have gone up $1 per gallon,
you're spending an extra $480 per year, or $40 per month. How many
people who are whinging about higher gas prices (which are, as
noted, lower than most of the developed world) can't spend an extra
$40 per month, or drive less, or trade in to get a car with better
gas mileage. Babies."
Amen emmajane, I really fail to see the "crisis". I mean if bring
my lunch to work a couple days and skip a Blockbuster run I can
save more than $40 a month!!! Babies indeed.
You know, they could just cut gasoline taxes. I've heard good
arguments that, however screwed up the market for oil might be, gas
stations actually have to compete with each other. So if the tax
were cut at the pump, the price would go down.
That would certainly make more sense.
OK, for all you "100 bucks is 100 bucks" people, would you be
more/less/neutral in favor of your Congresscritter who voted for
this? Can't we all simply agree that this is closest to the rawest
form of pandering and vote buying?
As if anything was needed to show how the GOP is absolutely lacking
in principles, but this clearly ices it.
Can't we all simply agree that this is closest to the rawest
form of pandering and vote buying?
It's as obvious as Paris Hilton is stupid. But it's still $100 of
my money back that I can spend more intelligently than the
government. Such as on hookers and blow.
MP,
You're telling me what I'm already well aware of: Politicians will
be politicians. Big surprise. I simply prefer getting $100 of my
money back to getting nothing. That's it.
"Can't we all simply agree that this is closest to the rawest
form of pandering and vote buying?
As if anything was needed to show how the GOP is absolutely lacking
in principles, but this clearly ices it."
Yeppers MP, totally stupid. GOP completely sucks. If they REALLY
were the party of small government (gag cough bullshit), they would
be arguing for the gas tax to go away completely. So I am in total
agreement with you.
I am still going to take back my money anytime I can get it. I can
still take the $100 and call them idiots at the same time. Hey I'll
even take yours iffin you don't want it. THEN it would be free
money. The original $100 belonged to me all along.
Fiscal Conservatism is truly dead. What reason does a
socially-liberal federalist/minarchist like myself have to vote for
the GOP these days?
It died in 1952.
If I get my 100$ back I will mail it right to the democratic party.I have never voted for a democrat but the republicans most likely won't get another one from me.Viva la libertarians
On an anecdotal basis, I see little evidence that these higher
gasoline prices are affecting consumption. I still see SUVs idling
unoccupied outside convenience stores, laundromats, garage sales. I
still see delivery trucks and semis idling at stores and terminals.
Plenty of leadfoots and tailgaters on the road. But oh do people
complain about fuel prices!
Reminds me of the frequent divergences between the consumer
sentiment surveys and consumer spending measures: there's usually a
big gap between what people say when asked, and what they actually
do.
And, if _anybody_ sends me a $100 check, I _will_ deposit it.
I still see SUVs idling unoccupied outside convenience
stores, laundromats, garage sales.
Idling? Unoccupied?
Anyone who did that in Dallas wouldn't have an SUV for long.
I see little evidence that these higher gasoline prices are
affecting consumption.
Of course not. Partly, this is a media-fed circus. And, given that
98% of Americans cannot function without a car, I expect it will
take much, much higher prices before behavior changes.
I am still going to take back my money anytime I can get
it.
Don't get me wrong...I'd still cash the check, but then would
likely apply it to my efforts to vote the bums out.
And gas spending is a smaller proportion of income than it one a
generation ago, etc etc.
I'm sort of torn with the $100 of my money back thing...I mean,
sure, that's great and all, but it's money they've already spent on
something else and they'll just have to take more from me in the
future to pay it back.
Now, on my budget, $40 a month is nothing to sneeze at, but I can
save almost that much a week by bringing my own lunches rather than
eating out every day, which is what I do when money gets tight.
Whoops, that last was me...and now my secret is revealed. Pulled a Jennifer, as it were.
On this plus side, the gas price hike is a blessing to the IT industry in increasing the use of telecomm, videocomm, VPN and other online collaboration technologies.
"So if you drive 1000 miles per month, and get an average of 25
miles per gallon,and if gas prices have gone up $1 per gallon,
you're spending an extra $480 per year, or $40 per month. How many
people who are whinging about higher gas prices (which are, as
noted, lower than most of the developed world) can't spend an extra
$40 per month, or drive less, or trade in to get a car with better
gas mileage. Babies. (feeling dyspeptic today)."
Amen Emma. Even the middle and lower middle class are grossly
weathly in this country by any objective standard. That is why the
gas price increase hasn't slowed down the economy or cut into
consumption much. It is just not that much money to most people.
The poverty pimps and the politicians of both parties have to
convince us how poor and helpless we are and how much we need their
assistance. Otherwise, people might stop and wonder why they are
paying 1/4 of their income and nearly trillion dollars of our GDP
for all of this "help" we are supposed to so desparately
need.
My favorite quote in a long while was Tim Russert saying something
to the effect of "gas demand is up and supply is down, yet prices
continue to rise."
And the words flowed from her lips, "Let them eat cake..."
When was the last time any one of you were taxed AND actually
represented?
I am Tlingit Indian. No need to pretend to be one. Tea anyone?
Well, it'll be another few drops into the debt bucket but I have a V8/RX7 project going on here. Please send checks this way.
Dumbest idea I've ever heard. This is why nobody votes for Democrats. Just get rid of the oil subsidies. We're giving tax breaks to companies that are setting records for profits.
Can we at least have an open bid? I think the Demons should up
the ante to $150, then the Repukes could counter with $200 and so
on.
Come on, don't get cheap on us now boys. Show how much you love
us... oh, and no dragging your teeth while you're down there.
It's not like Congress is going to spend $100 less because they are sending you a check. That check is probably costing the government a bit more than $100 due to administrative costs. Plus the $100 will have interest costs because the government will have to borrow more to pay it.
The same politicians that don't understand why most of the public is insulted by the $100 refund idea also wouldn't understand why a whore is insulted when you offer her a finnski for her services. And I have DC Police surveillance video to prove it.
Doesn't anyone else get the feeling pols are acting like rats
that have been cornered?
(If someone above had a similar comment, please excuse me.)
Even Joe Shit the rag man (as my drill instructor often referred to
him) is wise to the three-card monty out of DC.
So, the Republican solution to a painful economic situation is
to borrow some money, give it to us, and then send us a bill for it
some day. Instead of, say, cutting the gas tax or easing some
regulations or finding some other small government solution to the
problem.
Explain to me again why we should vote for them instead of voting
for, well, anything else? Like, say, protest candidates or divided
government?
It is ammusing how as soon as these government stupidities end up in handouts to us, the calls for government reform slack off.
Well, it'll be another few drops into the debt bucket but I
have a V8/RX7 project going on here. Please send checks this
way.
That ain't right.
A Mazda RX without a Wankel engine!
Hey, I've got a better idea: The government could just run the printing presses and give us all $100 bills!
Instead of, say, cutting the gas tax or easing some regulations
or finding some other small government solution to the
problem.
thoreau,
They are Chevy Chase. We are not.
Their sphincters are beginning to form some droplets,
however.
Time to scour the attic for pitch-forks and torches.
How many more days 'til Bastille Day?
It is ammusing how as soon as these government stupidities end up in handouts to us, the calls for government reform slack off.
Why on earth should we cut the gas tax? It is clearly
artificially low as it is. The gas tax is used to pay for the
federal highway system, but is insufficient for covering the total.
It should be raised until ALL federal road spending is covered by
gasoline taxes (rather than income, estate, etc). In addition,
gasoline taxes should include the costs of all associated
pollution, including CO2, SOx, NOx, and particulates.
An economically-efficient gasoline tax would actually be closer to
$1.00-$1.50/gallon, not the 36 cents or so we have now.
Anyone who believes in efficent, fair markets could not possibly
support lowering the gasoline tax.
I agree with much of what Chad says. The gas tax should not be
lowered simply because the price of gas has gone up -- if only
because of the confusing price signal and the uncertain
beneficiaries of the sudden surplus.
Moreover, the gas tax is one of the few taxes that actually
represents a user fee. The federal tax should be set to exactly
cover federal highway costs. It's now in the ballpark: the tax of
18 cents per gallon brings in around $22 billion and highway
spending is around $30 billion.
However, the notion that the gas tax should be raised to cover
externalized pollution because that is economically efficient is
bogus. There is an economically efficient level of taxation for
externalities only if the tax revenues go directly to reduce
the externalities or compensate those harmed by externalities.
Throwing those monies into the general fund is not an adequate
substitute and makes the tax not efficient, but punitive -- the
very opposite of efficient.
MikeP, raising the gasoline tax to match pollution externalities
would product the "optimal" amount of gasoline use, regardless of
what we did with the cash. We could burn it, flush it down the
toilet, buy everyone a pony, or spend it on whatever our most
pressing need is. Indeed, the best thing we could do is spend the
money on whatever brings us the most bang for our public buck is,
regardless of whether this is related to the environment or not. In
the case where the spending is unrelated to the environment, it
simply means we are efficiently sacrificing environmental quality
for some other good or service. There is nothing wrong with
that.
One general thought: How much opposition to the gas tax is an
opposition to the gas tax specifically, and how much if it is
opposition to "any tax which I pay", which is the norm for most
people? If instead of talking about raising the gas tax, one were
to propose exchanging a portion of the income tax with a higher gas
tax (tax neutral overall), would that sound tempting? Too me, any
time we switch from taxing "goods" to "bads" is probably a
winner.
That's an interesting take, Chad. Start with a clean slate and
the Coase theorem, work out the costs to those harmed, apply them
to the consumer as a tax, and then use the money collected for
whatever you want. Since the tax is the same whether or not the
revenues go to address the harm, and since money is all the same
color, the tax is "efficient."
Interesting, but I don't buy it.
Let's say the harm is linear, which will be true in the demand
regime moderated by a $1 per gallon pollution tax. Before the tax
you have X gallons being burned causing $Y damages to some set of
people Z. After the tax you have, say, .9X gallons being burned
causing $.9Y damages to the same set of people Z. As theorized, the
tax collects $Y in revenue.
All you have done in this example is doubled the burden on the
economy. Between burning the gasoline and taxing it, the world is
poorer by $1.9Y rather than the $1.0Y before the tax. If you gave
the $Y revenue to the people Z, you repair the damage and can argue
that the tax is efficient. If you let the government use it at
random you might get $.5Y benefit back into the economy. But if you
burn it, you're in effect doubling the externality, applying the
second half to gasoline consumers.
In the end your approach is social engineering, plain and simple.
It's a tax on something you personally dislike. As a double bonus
you propose to spend the revenues on something you personally like
rather than address the actual problem. There is nothing
economically efficient about this approach at all.
Chad-
I don't really disagree with you. I do see a strong case for a gas
tax as a user fee for roads. We can debate exactly how much should
be tacked onto the gas tax to cover externalities, but I don't
really have any principled objections to what you're saying.
My main point is simply that, if we take it as a postulate that the
federal government should work to bring down gas prices or relieve
the pain caused by high gas prices, then they should look at
cutting a tax or repealing a regulation that artificially drives up
costs or, well, anything other than the bread and circuses
routine.
Hey, maybe they could send us all circus tickets and bread
coupons!
Disclaimer for everybody else: Yes, yes, I know, the pricing system
that you get from a gas tax probably isn't exactly what you would
get from 100% private roads, yes, public roads are inherently
immoral and evil, yadda yadda.
thoreau,
I reach back in time to grab your salient comment about reducing
gas taxes...
You know, they could just cut gasoline taxes. I've heard good
arguments that, however screwed up the market for oil might be, gas
stations actually have to compete with each other. So if the tax
were cut at the pump, the price would go down.
...to note that, in the current situation, reducing the gas tax in
order to relieve the pain of high gas prices won't work.
Gas is $3 a gallon not because there are taxes on it. Gas is $3 a
gallon because supplies from the field and from the refinery are
tight and demand is high. Removing the gas tax won't change the
demand curve, and it won't in the short term change the supply
curve. Gas will continue to be $3, but the already high producer
surplus will rise even higher by the amount of the tax.
In other words, helping the consumer cope with high gas prices by
eliminating the gas tax at the pump will only enrich the villainous
oil companies by transferring the tax into their pockets. It is
only because the proposed $100 rebate is so distant from the actual
transaction that it is a relief scheme at all.
Nonetheless, the rebate is, as you note, pathetic bread and
circuses.
Even Joe Shit the rag man (as my drill instructor often
referred to him) is wise to the three-card monty out of
DC.
My DI's said the same thing. They must learn it in DI school.
MikeP-
Except that right now we have an equilibrium where you pay $3 for
that gallon and the supplier gets $3 minus $0.36 (or whatever the
tax is) from that transaction. (And yes, I know, he only keeps a
small fraction of that after his expenses, but the point is that
$2.64 or whatever is enough for him to cover expenses and receive a
profit under current market conditions.)
Now, say you cut that tax. The new equilibrium will depend on the
degree of competition in the market. Say that the tax is cut by
$0.10. A gas station owner's first instinct would, of course, be to
keep prices the same. And if he doesn't face much competition then
he can keep getting customers. Ditto if he faces competitors but he
has some advantages over them (e.g. he offers a full service
minimart while the guy across the street hardly offers any
amenities, or his station is easy to reach in the layout of the
intersection, but the competitor can only be reached by traffic
coming from one direction, or whatever).
But if the gas station owner faces significant competition, then
the competitor might decide to lower prices slightly. Less than
$0.10, perhaps, but still lower. If the competitive situation is
tight then he'll start luring customers away. So the first guy in
our example will also have to cut prices. And so the customer will
receive a significant benefit from cutting the gas tax. The
customer might not get the full benefit of the tax cut, but if
there's competition he'll get some of it.
Even if there's a situation where one gas station charges more than
the other, customers can still benefit from the tax cut. Say that
the nicer station is getting away with charging $0.10 more than the
guy across the street, because the nicer station has more services
or whatever. Now cut the tax by $0.10, and let's say that the
cheaper station decides to pass on the savings to the customer.
There will be some customers who were willing to pay an extra $0.10
for the nicer station, but a $0.20 difference is enough to get them
across the street. The cheaper station will start picking up more
business, and so the more expensive station will have to pass on
the savings from the gasoline tax cut to keep his customer
base.
Of course, that doesn't address the issue of whether gas taxes
should be left alone to pay for roads, etc. My only point is that
customers would indeed benefit from cutting the gas tax. Whether or
not that is sound policy is a whole separate issue.
thoreau,
Your argument about tax reductions being passed to the consumer are
correct in general: gas retail is one of the most competitive
sectors there is. And the argument would definitely apply to gas
back when it was $1.50 a gallon.
But I think we are in a different regime now. Demand is strong and
there has not yet been time to adjust to the higher prices. Supply
is weak and there has not yet been time to bring new petroleum
resources to bear. After watching the price of gas go up 50 cents
in a month, I have a hard time believing the producer surplus won't
soak up the monies available from any increase in demand due to
cutting the tax at the pump.
If demand stays constant while the tax is eliminated, the consumer
will indeed get the whole benefit as you argue. But demand won't
stay constant. It will rise in response to the drop in price,
bidding up the producer surplus at the field and refinery until gas
is again $3 at the pump.
The market has already proven it can bear $3 gas. It seems to me
that it can bear it again.
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