New at Reason

David Weigel | April 5, 2006

Radley Balko finds drug warriors barking up the wrong tree.

Comments

|4.5.06 @ 2:30PM|#

The SWAT guys would get in trouble if they did what they'd really like to do:
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~alb/ugly/naziSoldiersBrutalizeJewInPoland.jpg

The Poor Dears were just born in the wrong time and place ... but not TOO wrong.

|4.5.06 @ 2:35PM|#

Ah, Sheriff Joe. He has certainly made Maricopa County a crime-free utopia. Ignoring all the murders, rapes, robberies, and gang violence, of course.

tomWright|4.5.06 @ 2:46PM|#

And they called it puppy love
Oh, I guess they'll never know
How a young heart really feels
When the swat team lands a blow

And they called it puppy love
Just because we're in our teens
Tell them all it isn't fair
to kill my puppy with their team

I cry each night my tears for you
My tears are all in vain
I'll hope and I'll pray that maybe someday
we will end the drug war pain

Someone, help me, help me, help me please
Is the answer up above
Killing puppies for gram of weed
This is not a puppy love

|4.5.06 @ 2:48PM|#

After seeing that loud-mouth swine on P&T Bullshit I've come to believe that if the U.S. were ever to become a fascist state, Joe Arpaio (or some version thereof) would be our all-too-willing dictator.

Personally, I'd love the oppertunity to see that fucker treated like the prisioners at his little gulag... I mean, Jail: Marched around in legs irons, made to sleep in a tent, etc.

|4.5.06 @ 2:50PM|#

"Freedom to make our choice... freedom to make our choice... that's garbage!"

Sheriff Joe Arpaio,
Penn & Teller: Bullshit,
"War On Drugs"

|4.5.06 @ 2:52PM|#

Don't know what it is (maybe the dog owner in me too), but images like that of chasing the puppy back into the burning building - I've no doubt that sitting there at the scene, if the the bastard doing it was lined up in the sights, I'd have little trouble pulling the trigger...

|4.5.06 @ 2:54PM|#

Yet after some fire chief fucked a lamb, he (Shiriff Joe) got all up in arms because there was no specific law against fucking lambs.

Also, they treat police dogs like police officers, so if you shoot one of their dogs when it's trying to maul you, you also get extra time as a cop-killer, whereas these asshole cops probably don't even get in trouble for shooting a/your dog.

It's funny, all the people who are pro gun control should really be focusing on the police. They've got automatic weapons and rountinely engage all kinds of weapons in urban centres. You're bound to have a lot more accidental shootings in such cases than if my friends and I decide to go out shooting somewhere.

|4.5.06 @ 3:07PM|#

My father is a stalwart believer in the War On Drugs to the point where he think that users ought to be put to death ala Singapore. However, he's also a dog lover and every time he hears a story of the police killing a dog he'll passionately say, "If a cop ever does that to my dog, I'll kill the bastard!"

It's nice to live with a psycho.

|4.5.06 @ 3:08PM|#

Ooo, sic PETA on 'em. Special interest smackdown.

Seriously, what kind of person drives an animal back into a burning building?

Timothy|4.5.06 @ 3:13PM|#

And people wonder why I distrust and don't respect cops. Who shoots a dog that isn't being aggressive? I mean really, the driving across a neighbor's lawn and shooting their dog for good measure is just disgusting. I'd have chased that bastard down and given him a piece of my mind, probably punched the flatfoot. I think an assault charge is worth it to hurt the fucker who killed my dog.

|4.5.06 @ 3:18PM|#

"Seriously, what kind of person drives an animal back into a burning building?"

A soulless, heartless, empty shell of a human being.

(A.K.A. some small-town Barney-Fife motherfucker, drunk on the power that has been afforded to him by the DHS funding that bought all the SWAT gear they use for serving warrants for outstanding traffic tickets)

|4.5.06 @ 3:18PM|#

I know it's not at all the same, but this story reminded me of the Saudi religious police chasing little girls back into the burning elementary school. It's a shame that there won't be as much bad press for the police department over this.

|4.5.06 @ 3:29PM|#

No good will come of the War On Dogs.
And the Dog Enforcement Agency should be abolished.
Woof!

|4.5.06 @ 3:39PM|#

Shooting the dogs is standard procedure when executing a no-knock raid.

Can't have Fido trying to gnaw through Officer Jackboot's kevlar vest now, can we?

|4.5.06 @ 3:39PM|#

It's funny, all the people who are pro gun control should really be focusing on the police.

Exactly. Which is why the best anti-control bumper sticker I've seen said "If guns are outlawed only the police will have guns."

|4.5.06 @ 3:40PM|#

"It's nice to live with a psycho."

Jesus Christ. No wonder you're so fucking unhappy.

Move out, bitch!

|4.5.06 @ 3:50PM|#

"Branch Davidian compound in Waco many people tend to doubt the idea that the government was out of line when it invaded, demolished, and set fire to a home of peaceful and mostly innocent people"

Radley Balko is a great American and one my heroes, but ...

The government invaded the BD compound because the BDs had shot 16 law enforcement officers. Many of the BDs were innocent of murder, of course, but they had every opportunity to leave the compound peacefully before or during the final raid. And the evidence is overwhelming that the BD leaders set the fire, and shot many fellow BDs who tried to flee rather than join in the mass suicide.

There's plenty of real police/FBI misconduct without Waco consipiracy theories.

|4.5.06 @ 3:53PM|#

Also, they treat police dogs like police officers, so if you shoot one of their dogs when it's trying to maul you, you also get extra time as a cop-killer,...

A few years ago some guy fought back after a police dog attacked him and ended up beating it to death. There was serious talk about charging him with murder of a police officer.

No, I really did not just make that up.

|4.5.06 @ 4:03PM|#

"The government invaded the BD compound because the BDs had shot 16 law enforcement officers. Many of the BDs were innocent of murder, of course, but they had every opportunity to leave the compound peacefully before or during the final raid. And the evidence is overwhelming that the BD leaders set the fire, and shot many fellow BDs who tried to flee rather than join in the mass suicide."

And for violating what laws?

Oh, that's right, failing to pay a $200 tax on firearms they didn't even have...

|4.5.06 @ 4:13PM|#

Not to derail the subject, but...

Move out, bitch!

I been wish for that to happen since I was 22. Sadly I make jack-shit and can't afford to live in anything more comfortable than a cardboard box. (So much for college.)

|4.5.06 @ 4:17PM|#

EDIT: I've been wishing...

|4.5.06 @ 4:28PM|#

I'm from Phoenix, and a few years ago Arpaio used to personally show up (with news cameras) to arrest people who were suspected of minor animal cruelty, where he would then give a big speech about how they were going to crack down hard on people who didn't love their puppies. The irony.

Somewhat related, there is also the case of the teenager who was about to be released from jail when his cellmate, a long time unreliable prison informant, sent a letter directly to the Sheriff's Office telling them that the kid had threatened Joe Arpaio, which was almost certainly a lie. In any case, it was a pretty transparent attempt to appeal to officers who knew if they could get a guy for trying to kill Arpaio, it would be the best thing that could possibly happen to their careers. Arpaio's deputies then hatched a scheme to set him up in a fake attempt to kill Arpaio, and had the informant tell him that he was from the mob and they were going to kill him if he didn't go along. Once he got out, some undercover deputy made him build the bomb, and then put it under Arpaio's car, where he was arrested for attempted murder in full view of local news cameras. Amazingly, he was actually acquitted, but of course Arpaio and the prosecuters still think they were right to this day.

|4.5.06 @ 4:30PM|#

"Ah, Sheriff Joe. He has certainly made Maricopa County a crime-free utopia. Ignoring all the murders, rapes, robberies, and gang violence, of course."

The only reason we still have crime is because of the meth, obviously.

|4.5.06 @ 4:38PM|#

I been wish for that to happen since I was 22. Sadly I make jack-shit and can't afford to live in anything more comfortable than a cardboard box. (So much for college.)

Damn, where do you live, Manhattan? Why not find a roommate and share an apartment - that has to beat living at with a psycho! :)

R C Dean|4.5.06 @ 4:53PM|#

The government invaded the BD compound because the BDs had shot 16 law enforcement officers.

Actually, the government invaded the BD compound before anyone was shot. The invasion was the attempt to serve the warrant. The shootings were in response to the invasion, not the cause of the invasion.

R C Dean|4.5.06 @ 5:02PM|#

I'll have to do a little research, but I believe a solid case could be made under Texas law that killing a cop who just shot your dog would be permissible self-defense.

The rap for killing his partner and their families to the third generation might be a little tougher to beat, though.

|4.5.06 @ 5:12PM|#

Those SWAT cops shoot dogs with the impunity with which they want to shoot humans. That's what makes it scary.

|4.5.06 @ 5:56PM|#

Scum who target pets or duty animals should absolutely have to face criminal charges. It's not murder - they're animals, not humans - but damn, it feels like assaulting a child.

|4.5.06 @ 5:56PM|#

The rap for killing his partner and their families to the third generation might be a little tougher to beat, though.

RCD: You get under my skin most times, but I am with you on this! And I'm a cat person.

|4.5.06 @ 6:03PM|#

"Actually, the government invaded the BD compound before anyone was shot. The invasion was the attempt to serve the warrant. The shootings were in response to the invasion, not the cause of the invasion."

There were two separate incidents. Balko and I were discussing the second one.

In the first incident, which you're discussing here, the BDs opened fire on BATF agents executing a search warrant. Regardless whether the warrant was justified, mass murder of law enforcement officers was not a justified response.

|4.5.06 @ 6:05PM|#

"And for violating what laws?

Oh, that's right, failing to pay a $200 tax on firearms they didn't even have..."

No, the law against murder. Premeditated mass murder.

|4.5.06 @ 6:09PM|#

To rerail the thread ...

The proper, humane way to incapacitate guard dogs is to toss them steaks laced with tranquilizers. Don't FBI agents ever watch TV?

|4.5.06 @ 6:27PM|#

"[A]ny director who can turn a movie about lapdancing into a stultifyingly dull 3 hour movie may not actually have a good grasp on what is erotic," scoffs one observer."

I have an English question: Why does the "A" in "[A]ny" in the sentence above have brackets around it? What the f$*% does that bracket mean?

|4.5.06 @ 6:31PM|#

Good question, Wayne. the brackets mean that the "a" was lowercase in the original. The original, for example, might have read like:

Anybody with half a brain knows that any director who can turn a movie about lapdancing into a stultifyingly dull 3 hour movie may not actually have a good grasp on what is erotic.

The brackets are a good tool because they indicate that there is more there, if one wants to explore, but that the extraneous part of the sentence was deemed by the quoter to be extraneous for purposes of the quote.

|4.5.06 @ 6:39PM|#

Thanks Blue_book!

You meant to write, "anybody with half...", right?

|4.5.06 @ 8:47PM|#

Daze - I hate to keep derailing this thread, but: "In the first incident, which you're discussing here, the BDs opened fire on BATF agents executing a search warrant." If you claim to know that for a fact, then you know something absolutely no other person in America knows. The BATF claims the Davidians shot first; the Davidians claim the BATF shot first. All the evidence that might prove anything either way has mysteriously disappeared, unfortunately. The BATF was also not just "attempting to serve a warrant" - they were storming the building, despite not having a no-knock warrant, and they admitted before Congress that they had no plans to serve the warrant peacefully. Please, please, educate yourself a little further - maybe watch Waco: The Rules of Engagement - before discussing this further, because you are coming off exactly like every person who has ever parroted the government's initial line.

Just to tie this back in a bit with the real topic, ISTR that the BATF shot the Davidians' dogs in the initial attack. It seems to me that shooting anything, including dogs, when it is not absolutely necessary is a really poor idea simply because it means you are escalating the situation (something the police are generally not supposed to do). If you find armed men firing shots on (and at) your property, what are you supposed to think? They're there to ask for directions?

|4.5.06 @ 11:05PM|#

Stop the Global War on Terriers!

|4.6.06 @ 12:33AM|#

A friend of mine works for a group of public defenders. They were sent the case of this guy who took his puppy to a parking lot, and in front of his friends, he beat the puppy
to death.

Nobody wanted to take this case. These lawyers are more than willing to defend B Folonies and A Felonies, including murderers, child
molesters, and rapists, yet drew the line at puppy killing.

|4.6.06 @ 2:48AM|#

yet drew the line at puppy killing

Maybe bcs they think that the punishment for murder is severe enuf, but the punishment for puppykilling is not.

Nick Gillespie thinks we should eat dogs, or at least be allowed to with impunity, which makes it impossible for me to respect him or take him seriously.

|4.6.06 @ 3:26AM|#

Jeez, I hate dogs. I think I missed my true vocation.

|4.6.06 @ 3:44AM|#

Akira Said:
My father is a stalwart believer in the War On Drugs to the point where he think that users ought to be put to death ala Singapore

Go spark one up in front of him and tell him now you have to die. I wonder if that demonstration would make him question that conviction.

Anyway, it's what I'd do.