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And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and shake their bodies down to the ground.
Is Michael Jackson converting to Islam? Sunni or Shia? Regular or NOI? Male or female? Daniel Pipes considers the evidence (though he doesn't seem aware that Jermaine—a.k.a. Muhammad Abdulaziz—converted in 1989, and also in Bahrain, where Michael is going through his own apparent transition), and considers the long history of black Americans finding Allah in times of trouble:
These and other examples establish Islam—in both its normative and Nation variants—as a leading solace for African-Americans in need. That helps explain why the United States has by far the largest Muslim convert population in the Western world (about 750,000 adherents). Each black public figure who converts to Islam or accepts Nation of Islam support creates an added impetus for other blacks to change religions, a pattern that has also emerged in other Western countries.
Thus do the actions of an erratic celebrity in distant Bahrain have significant consequences.
Before the Jehovah's Witnesses panic, however, it's worth noting that millions of church-going black Americans have made Madea's Family Reunion the nation's top-grossing film for the second week in a row.
|3.7.06 @ 1:24PM|#
Someone needs to pinpoint the exact moment when Michael Jackson
surpassed Howard Hughes for being the world's wierdest rich
guy.
(And Michael better watch out, as Larry Wachowski seems to be
gunning for that title.)
|3.7.06 @ 1:29PM|#
"Each black public figure who converts to Islam or accepts
Nation of Islam support creates an added impetus for other blacks
to change religions, a pattern that has also emerged in other
Western countries.
Thus do the actions of an erratic celebrity in distant Bahrain have
significant consequences."
Would Mr. Pipes have written this article if Michael Jackson was
following a pattern of black people converting to
Episcopalianism?
I wonder why Mr. Pipes considers the existence of American Muslims,
or the conversion of Americans to the Islamic religion, to be
"significant." Actually, no, I don't.
|3.7.06 @ 1:31PM|#
Will Michael have to wear a burka now?
Or is that because sunlight aggravates his weird skin disorder?
|3.7.06 @ 1:31PM|#
Yeah, lots of American Blacks are getting nose jobs and lightening thier skin as well as joining the muslim church.
|3.7.06 @ 1:35PM|#
Back in the fall, a friend of mine emailed me a link to a website operated by a very weird Australian who believes Prince Charles converted to Islam. (Sorry I can't find the link or email anymore.) If both Charlie and Jacko convert, I think we can safely say that the threat from radical Islam is over.
|3.7.06 @ 1:36PM|#
I, I um, I lack the words... to effectively quantify Jacko's
level of weirdness...
weird-o-meter pegged, needle bending...
|3.7.06 @ 1:38PM|#
"Thus do the actions of an erratic celebrity in distant Bahrain
have significant consequences."
Fortunately, the actions of an erratic windbag in wherever the fuck
it is that Daniel Pipes lives don't mean shit.
|3.7.06 @ 1:44PM|#
Sulla, at least they'll know what they're getting, It likely won't look much different...
|3.7.06 @ 1:48PM|#
Before the Jehovah's Witnesses panic...
I've a feeling the JWs would be delighted if Jacko joined some
other religion and helped people forget the letters MJ and JW were
ever connected in any way...
|3.7.06 @ 1:55PM|#
DeWitt, no doubt.. can you imagine that guy (MJ) showing up at
your door with a bible and a pamphlet? no way that's helping the
membership drive.
A friend of mine taught me a really good rebuttal to the JWs: First
clarify with them that they believe that there is a finite number
of people that will be admitted into heaven, and then tell them
that they should not recruit you because you might be the guy that
bumps them out of their spot... There will be a long pause in the
coversation at this point...
|3.7.06 @ 2:08PM|#
Between Cat Stevens and various Jackson brothers, I think the real question is, "Why is Islam so appealing to musical has-beens"?
Captain Holly|3.7.06 @ 2:14PM|#
When Jacko dies, will some other weird celeb purchase his
skeleton?
Everything but the bone chips from the plastic surgery....
|3.7.06 @ 2:19PM|#
"Why is Islam so appealing to musical has-beens"?
answer: they lack the social relevance of their glory days, have
failed to find a sufficient "cause" to attach themselves to, and
being born again is so ...done. This is instant underdog down with
the underclass cred... Besides by this point they often already
look like a full time resident of the Ted Kazinsky Home for the
Recluse and Islam doesn't require that they tidy up!
|3.7.06 @ 2:28PM|#
Three questions:
- Why does Dan Pipes fear that more black Americans will convert to Islam?
- Does he feel the same way about folks converting to evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity?
- If not, why not?
|3.7.06 @ 2:31PM|#
Is Michael Jackson converting to Islam?
Oh boy, yet another PR coup for Islam! How can they stand it?
|3.7.06 @ 2:37PM|#
Ig, your ignorance of JW beliefs is astounding. It's true they
believe only 144,000 people will go to heaven. But they believe the
rest of the good people will live forever in paradise on earth,
where no one ever gets old or sick, and their kids can have a pet
tiger. Now why are you being such a cynic?? Don't you want to live
forever in paradise on earth?
And no, you can't touch it. You can't even look at it.
|3.7.06 @ 2:53PM|#
You mean Jacko traded a pet tiger for 70, more or less, virgins in the next world? Obviously no one explained this to him. Seems like that would make him reconsider.
|3.7.06 @ 3:00PM|#
You mean Jacko traded a pet tiger for 70, more or less,
virgins in the next world? Obviously no one explained this to him.
Seems like that would make him reconsider.
Perhaps he would be dissuaded if someone explains that the promise
refers to virgin girls...
|3.7.06 @ 3:24PM|#
He'll have to come up with a new name for his preferred
aphrodesiac:
"Mohammed Juice"
|3.7.06 @ 3:33PM|#
# Does he feel the same way about folks converting to
evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity?
# If not, why not?
Maybe because you can count the number of fundamentalist Christian
terrorists on the fingers of one mangled hand.
|3.7.06 @ 3:54PM|#
It is all a matter of perspective. I am sure that a large number
of people in the Muslim world feel that there are a couple hundred
thousand Christian terrorists killing people in Iraq as we speak,
Bush did claim that they were sent on behalf of his Christian God.
A dead baby is a dead baby no matter whether the death was ordained
by Jesus or Mohammed, just because they wear the uniform of the US
military does not mean that they are not considered terrorists by
the grieving relatives.
It is not surprising at all that a Jew is concerned about the
growing number of Muslims. Pepsi doesn't like it when Coke steals
some of their market share either.
|3.7.06 @ 4:10PM|#
OK Pirate, I can take that.. Guess I'll have to brush up on my JW theology.. right after get a clearer understanding of The Book of Mormon, the Koran, whatever manifesto the Hindu religion adheres to and ...Oh times up... guess I'll find out the who's right the hard way... C'mon man, let me pet it... pleeeeeeaase.
|3.7.06 @ 4:11PM|#
It is not surprising at all that a Jew is concerned about
the growing number of Muslims. Pepsi doesn't like it when Coke
steals some of their market share either.
What has "market share" to do anything? Jews generally don't seek
converts from other religions anyway.
|3.7.06 @ 4:17PM|#
Ig, in that case, the way to deal with Jehovah's Witnesses would be to tell them that you are prone to nosebleeds, which means you have swallowed amounts of blood in the past and will likely do so in the future. Tell them that, since even lifesaving blood transfusions are forbidden under the "don't eat blood under any circumstances" rule, there's no point in joining a religion when you know damned well you can't possibly live up to its standards.
|3.7.06 @ 4:23PM|#
So Ig goes to heaven and finds himself waiting in line behind a
whole bunch of people trying to get in. St. Peter asks each person
a different question about religion, and if the person gets it
wrong, they're jettisoned down to the fiery place. If they get it
right, the bells clang and the gates open and the person gets
in.
Ig gets his turn and St. Peter asks him, 'So, what was the first
thing Eve said to Adam in the Garden of Eden?'
Ig, being a blasphemous heathen, spent his time reading about
Hinduism and the Koran, so he has no idea. He scratches his head,
trying to remember if he's read anything about the subject, and
finally shrugs his shoulders and says, 'Gee, that's a hard
one!'
And the bells clang and the gates open, and they let him in.
|3.7.06 @ 4:30PM|#
"Tell them that, since even lifesaving blood transfusions are
forbidden under the "don't eat blood under any circumstances" rule,
there's no point in joining a religion when you know damned well
you can't possibly live up to its standards."
Their Bible quoting refers to scriptures that say to *abstain* from
blood. (Which means no eating blood and no injecting it into your
veins.) Oddly, there is nothing in their dogma that says you
shouldn't eat rare, red meat - even a steak that just looks like
it's been walked through a warm room. This is especially odd when
their interpretation of the lion and the lamb lying side by side in
peace in "the new system" means that lambs won't be afraid of lions
anymore, which must mean animals won't be carnivores anymore.
That's the last I heard of it anyway, and it has been quite a few
years. (Yeesh, imagine the mice problems they would have, with
herbivorous former birds of prey.)
They also used to say Armageddon would come before the generation
of 1914 ended, so I guess that's one more speculation that will
have to change with the addition of more "new light" from their
HQ.
|3.7.06 @ 4:34PM|#
I am sure that a large number of people in the Muslim world
feel that there are a couple hundred thousand Christian terrorists
killing people in Iraq as we speak
A large number of people in the Muslim world think that Jews drink
the blood of babies, that the WTC attacks were caused by Israel,
and that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are real. So?
R C Dean|3.7.06 @ 4:35PM|#
It is not surprising at all that a Jew is concerned about
the growing number of Muslims. Pepsi doesn't like it when Coke
steals some of their market share either.
Perhaps that "Jew" is concerned about the growing number of Muslims
because of the overt, violent hatred so many Muslims have for Jews.
Just maybe.
I am sure that a large number of people in the Muslim world
feel that there are a couple hundred thousand Christian terrorists
killing people in Iraq as we speak,
And those people are ignorant victims of propaganda, because the
vast majority of civilians being killed in Iraq are being killed by
Islamist terrorists.
Bush did claim that they were sent on behalf of his Christian
God.
No, he didn't. He claimed that he prayed before committing to the
war in Iraq. Only someone who is mendaciously partisan or willfully
ignorant would conflate the two.
|3.7.06 @ 4:43PM|#
The market share comment was made partly in jest, but also because a growing number of Christians and Jews are starting to panic about the fact that Islam may eventually become the majority religion in countries typically dominated by Christianity and Judaism. It was implicit in the article that a larger number of Muslims in the US or Western world was somehow inherently bad.
|3.7.06 @ 4:47PM|#
PJo, Ha! You're killing me! I'll poach that one for
certain.
Jennifer, Blood really?!? I suppose these guys get on well with the
Vegans... Maybe I should just invite them in and start up some
steaks on the grill.. "I like mine rare. How bout you folks?.. Hey
where' ya goin?"
Don't get me wrong here people, I'm not a complete heathen, in fact
I consider myself a Christian. I just struggle with the vocal
leadership of most religions because it always ends in dogma and
doctrine instead of the real quest for meaning and understanding...
No harm meant JWs, Hindus, et al.. The problems with every religion
ends up being at the hand of man (man in the figurative, not God,
variety for all you femenists who are cheering now...)
|3.7.06 @ 5:03PM|#
I believe that Bush has stated publicly that God - the Christian version that he believes in, told him that he was chosen to lead our country during the war on terror, of which Iraq is the central front. It is not too hard to view that as a claim that the Christian God thought it was time to kill some Muslims. Like I said it is all a matter of perspective, our soldiers are clearly commiting some of the same acts that we would condemm as terrorism if they were perpetrated on US soil by a group of Muslim extremists, the shock and awe bombing and Abu Ghraib come to mind. There have been plenty of innocent Iraqi civilians killed directly by the actions of the US military under the direction of Bush, who claims to be on a mission from God to rid the world of evil. Collateral damage is just a fancy label for terrorism, they both involve the deaths of innocent people not directly related to the conflict.
|3.7.06 @ 5:49PM|#
I would challenge the assertion that Bush said he was "Gods
chosen leader for war with a Muslim country" if I am wrong show me
the quote with when and where context.. I'm no Bush fan altogether,
but I hear this alot from those who really hate him and it seems
more a product of agenda than fact..
I do, however, agree that many Muslims hold that perspective, but
that too is a matter of convenience with regard to their
objectives...
Danish cartoonist pokes fun at Allah, burn the US flag and trash a
KFC.. makes perfect sense...
|3.7.06 @ 6:33PM|#
God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." --Ha'aretz, 06.25.03
|3.7.06 @ 6:48PM|#
Scott
Help me out, what is Ha'aretz? Was this at a press conference, or a
group address... You know like on tape? Seriously asking....
|3.7.06 @ 7:02PM|#
Ha'aretz is an Israeli newspaper. These comments were made during a meeting with Palestinian PM Abbas while Bush was in Israel to discuss the "road map" peace process.
Danny Haszard|3.7.06 @ 7:04PM|#
Q.What turned Michael Jackson into the freakish ?wacko Jacko? in
the first place?
I have been following MJ?s bio since his baptism in the 1970?s as a
Jehovah?s Witness.MJ and I are the same age and I can identify with
the disastrously dysfunctional oppressive fundamentalist ?freak?
upbringing of Jehovah?s Witnesses children.
Like MJ I had a wonderful life that was ruined by a destructive
cult.
There are a Million Messed up Jehovah?s Witnesses kids out there
just like us.
God have Mercy!
-Danny Haszard born Jehovah?s Witness 1957 ?i was in the cult and
now i?m out?
|3.7.06 @ 7:45PM|#
(Would have been slightly funnier if I hadn't fucked up my
e-mail address)
hope you lose custody of your chimp michael
|3.7.06 @ 8:25PM|#
About Haretz Story
The actual translation of the Bush statement in Hharetz is "God
inspired me to hit al Qaeda, and so I hit it. And I had the
inspiration to hit Saddam, and so I hit him. Now I am determined to
solve the Middle East problem if you help. Otherwise the elections
will come and I will be wrapped up with them."
Not that this is a whole lot better, but the report highlights the
wording of the quote has come in Arabic from Arabic speakers
tranlsating Bush's original English comments.
|3.7.06 @ 9:13PM|#
Thanks Six..Arabic translation? Hmmmmmm
that explains a lot...
6sig huh so are you attacking variation in accuracy here? LOL..
warped manufacturing humor.
|3.7.06 @ 10:04PM|#
It is not too hard to view that as a claim that the
Christian God thought it was time to kill some Muslims.
Yes it is.
|3.7.06 @ 11:27PM|#
"Q.What turned Michael Jackson into the freakish ?wacko Jacko?
in the first place?"
Uh...too much money? at too young an age?
One thing for sure....if he converts to Islam and stays in the
Middle East, he had better learn to let boys alone. From what I
have heard concerning attitudes there, he might get his testicles
handed to him. That is, if he still has any.
"It is not too hard to view that as a claim that the Christian God
thought it was time to kill some Muslims."
Surely you must know that the "Christian" god is the same as the
"Muslim" god and the "Jewish" god. Jehova, Allah, Yahwe,...all the
same. The god of the Book. And even if you don't know, I'm sure
that Bush does. (And if he doesn't, Cheney will tell him.)
"Collateral damage is just a fancy label for terrorism, they both
involve the deaths of innocent people not directly related to the
conflict."
Historically wars have been fought between "peoples" and not just
their militaries. "Collateral damage" is just a fancy label for
war. Welcome to the real world.
One thing more: I sure wish y'all would stop using the letters JW
to abreviate Jehova's Witness. It really does pain a non-believer
like me.
Andrew Ian Dodge|3.8.06 @ 8:43AM|#
What has "market share" to do anything? Jews generally don't
seek converts from other religions anyway.
In fact Jews cannot evangelise. If you try to convert you are
refused twice and only accepted on the third attempt.
Surely you must know that the "Christian" god is the same as
the "Muslim" god and the "Jewish" god. Jehova
That is in fact untrue. Allah is not the same God as
worshipped by Jews as Jahweh and Christians as God. The three
religions are monotheistic but that does not mean they worship the
same god.
The Jewish & Christian God has its roots in sun worship via the
Egyptians; Islam's worship is based on the Moon; as one example
they use the lunar calendar.
|3.8.06 @ 9:51AM|#
'Historically wars have been fought between "peoples" and not
just their militaries. "Collateral damage" is just a fancy label
for war. Welcome to the real world.'
You all remember people like jw making this point when 2800
Americans were murdered on September 11, right? Hey, war is a
confliect between peoples, and they struck at some of our people.
You all remember that, right?
|3.8.06 @ 10:35AM|#
Andrew Ian Dodge, Jews use the lunar calendar, too. Not that I claim to be an expert on religions, but that's one factoid I know. Thus the flexible Passover/Easter schedule.
|3.9.06 @ 3:01AM|#
Andrew Ian Dodge:
Excuse me, but all three religions DO worship the same god. They
worship the "God of Abraham". Furthermore the belief in that god
has its roots in ancient Mesopotamia and the civilizations around
the Tigris and Eurphrates Rivers rather than Egypt.
Joe:
I'm not certain just what it is you are trying to say, but I can
assure you that *I* wasn't making any points around here (on this
blog or any other) on 9/11. I did not have access to a computer at
the time. As a matter of fact, I did not even know how to use one.
And I have been posting here for less than a year.
But to reiterate and elaborate on my point: Yes, wars ARE fought
between "Peoples" (historically) and not just between militaries.
Yes! "Civilians" DO suffer and die. That is part of what has always
made war so terrible. Did you think war was only about two groups
playing some kind of toy soldiers game? And if you think that the
"war" we have been engaged in since 9/11 is only between combatants
or non-civilians, you would do well to reconsider. It is most
definitely between cultures and/or civilizations. I definitely
recall saying AND hearing similar thoughts just after 9/11. I, for
one, was not surprised that the other side did not "play by the
rules". The rules of warfare are a relatively modern and Western
invention, if they truly mean anything at all.
Pro Libertate:
If you have any interest in the calenders and timekeeping methods
of ancient peoples, you might find Daniel J. Boorstin's THE
DISCOVERERS to be worth a look.
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