Julian Sanchez | October 4, 2005
Matt Welch, among the first to question the horror stories coming out of the Superdome, talks with a Louisiana National Guardsman about weathering the PR storm.
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This story is conspicuously absent from the main stream media. I wonder why Ted Koppel or Stone Phillips aren't reporting this.
Isn't Ted Koppel dead? Or, no...he's the one that got fired for
using fake memos...
Seriously, this is a great story. Nicely written, too. I distinctly
remember the Red Cross saying they coudln't go in b/c they were
being told (by FEMA?) that it was too dangerous.
But there were really hundreds of guardsmen at the Dome? Were there
others in the city we never heard about?
I'd like to see a report on one of the evening news shows about
the woman with the clown paint. This sounds far more entertaining
than all the horror story stuff the networks love to peddle--and
they peddle it only because they're in the entertainment business
and believe that people want horror.
Really, what was she thinking? Funny, and sweet. The stuff of good
family entertainment. As an added bonus, it may actually be true!
Wow!
"We are now into Week Two of elite news organizations'
re-evaluation of the New Orleans horror stories they helped
transmit to the world in the first seven days after Hurricane
Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast."
Hold it right there, Captain Pajamas. The blogosphere went ever
farther, even faster with these stories than the traditional media.
Mote, plank, eye, old bean.
I remember hearing about the hundreds of guardsmen the night
before the hurricane. When the chaos (apparently) broke out later
in the week, I wondered what had happened to them. Was the dome too
big for them to secure? Were they poorly equipped for crowd
control? Were they deployed somewhere else after the storm?
Now it looks like they were in the dome, doing their duty, and
wondering what all the fuss was about.
(ooooh...plank...light over head goes on)
Plenty of blame for all media due here, I think. But here's a
thought: should we not assign more blame for spreading rumors to
those media which were, or should have been, better able to verify
facts? NBC, Fox, CBS, etc, have vast resources, including
(theoretically) large staffs of fact checkers. Bloggers have few,
if any, such resources--at an individual level anyway. Just a
thought.
Most media people find it hard to believe that order and peace
will emerge automatically--without the help of politicians--from
chaos.
Anarchy rules!
Red-lights suck!
Sounds like the "Green Zone" reporting you get from Iraq.
Reporter standing on a hotel balcony with Baghdad behind him:
"We don't actually know first hand, but we hear shit is really bad.
We would go and report, but it's like really dangerous out there so
we're just going to go with hearsay and make some assumptions based
on what we all know to be true. Back to you Tom."
Replace Iraqis with black folks and that lady in a clown suit with
GIs building a school.
I'm not saying it's all peaches and cream over there. All I'm
saying is that I don't trust the media assessment of that situation
any more than I trust their Katrina coverage.
One of the reasons for Brown's tarring and feathering was his ignorance of the Superdome mayhem. Sometimes only our gut directs where to place trust
Wait a minute - the Guardsmen were in the Superdome the night
before the storm? That can't possibly be true, since the Governor
didn't raise a finger to activate the Guard for a full six and a
half years after the levees burst. Or something.
Ruthless, what part of anarchy involves several hundred armed
troops patrolling, shouting orders, and kicking people's asses when
they need it?
The story here is that the msm was only as good as the bloggers.
If they can't vet better than that, they are done.
This really does stink for the guardsmen, as ralphus points out.
They took a lot of indirect fire over nothing.
"One of the reasons for Brown's tarring and feathering was his
ignorance of the Superdome mayhem."
Yah. That occurred to me too. All that indignant "How could he not
know what was really going on 3 days after the flood?" The guy is
probably a tool, but that does seem unfair in retrospect.
I sense an upcoming book by Mr. Welch, drawn from all his
writings on the horror-mongering.
If I am right in this guess, please be sure to get a picture of the
clown lady, if she can be found.
And ask her, seriously, what was she thinking? (I'm still laughing
about this.)
And ask her, seriously, what was she thinking? (I'm still
laughing about this.)
Maybe she thought, "I'm going to be in a place where there'll be a
bunch of scared kids (and adults), and maybe I can distract them
from the misery for a little while."
Sometimes people just do stuff without being asked or having the
federal government mobilize them.
Isaac B,
Yes, I think there is a good chance that's exactly what she was
thinking. (Which, if you think about it, means she was just
planning to do her job.) If so, then that's all the more reason she
deserves to have 15 minutes via national TV.
Yes, I think there is a good chance that's exactly what she
was thinking. (Which, if you think about it, means she was just
planning to do her job.) If so, then that's all the more reason she
deserves to have 15 minutes via national TV.
national TV? Like anyone would see that. Get this woman on the
blogosphere.
Hold it right there, Captain Pajamas. The blogosphere went
ever farther, even faster etc, etc
Joe, so what? I believed these stories because I heard them on the
radio (probably NPR) and read them in the newspaper.
"Wait a minute - the Guardsmen were in the Superdome the night
before the storm? That can't possibly be true, since the Governor
didn't raise a finger to activate the Guard for a full six and a
half years after the levees burst. Or something." - joe
So it IS the state and locals job after all?
(joe, once again, tries to have it both ways... )
It seems to me that now is the wrong time to start claiming that
there was a good state and local response in the first 24-72 hours
of the emergency (after which they could reasonably expect federal
assistance). Especially considering that it's clear there wasn't a
competent response, based on the body count alone.
I'd say the feds are starting to look more and more like they did
the right thing, and picked up what was dropped by the state and
local folks. Not to mention that many state governors, regardless
of party affiliation - Louisiana's being an obvious exception, I'd
bet - is saying that initial response is a state
responsibility.
Govs to Bush: Relief our job
By Bill Nichols and Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON � There is almost no support among the nation's
governors for President Bush's suggestion that the Pentagon could
take the lead in responding to catastrophic natural disasters, a
USA TODAY survey has found.
Of the 38 governors who responded to a request for reaction to
Bush's comments, only two backed the idea: Republicans Mitt Romney
of Massachusetts and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota.
Half the state chief executives said they were opposed or had
reservations, including Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's
brother. Eleven wanted more details before taking a position, and
12 did not respond.
Posted 10/2/2005 11:50 PM
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Govs to Bush: Relief our job
By Bill Nichols and Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON � There is almost no support among the nation's
governors for President Bush's suggestion that the Pentagon could
take the lead in responding to catastrophic natural disasters, a
USA TODAY survey has found.
Of the 38 governors who responded to a request for reaction to
Bush's comments, only two backed the idea: Republicans Mitt Romney
of Massachusetts and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota.
Half the state chief executives said they were opposed or had
reservations, including Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's
brother. Eleven wanted more details before taking a position, and
12 did not respond.
Most governors who opposed the suggestion said they would resist
any effort by Washington to usurp state control of disaster relief,
even in a devastating event like Hurricane Katrina, in which more
than 1,100 people died.
"Whether a governor is a Republican or Democrat, I would expect the
response would be, 'Hell no,' " said Michigan Gov. Jennifer
Granholm, a Democrat.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-02-gov-survey_x.htm
"Wait a minute - the Guardsmen were in the Superdome the night
before the storm? That can't possibly be true, since the Governor
didn't raise a finger to activate the Guard for a full six and a
half years after the levees burst. Or something." - joe
So it IS the state and locals job after all?
(joe, once again, tries to have it both ways... )
It seems to me that now is the wrong time to start claiming that
there was a good state and local response in the first 24-72 hours
of the emergency (after which they could reasonably expect federal
assistance). Especially considering that it's clear there wasn't a
competent response, based on the body count alone.
I'd say the feds are starting to look more and more like they did
the right thing, and picked up what was dropped by the state and
local folks. Not to mention that many state governors, regardless
of party affiliation - Louisiana's being an obvious exception, I'd
bet - is saying that initial response is a state
responsibility.
Govs to Bush: Relief our job
By Bill Nichols and Richard Benedetto, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON ? There is almost no support among the nation's
governors for President Bush's suggestion that the Pentagon could
take the lead in responding to catastrophic natural disasters, a
USA TODAY survey has found.
Of the 38 governors who responded to a request for reaction to
Bush's comments, only two backed the idea: Republicans Mitt Romney
of Massachusetts and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota.
Half the state chief executives said they were opposed or had
reservations, including Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's
brother. Eleven wanted more details before taking a position, and
12 did not respond.
(should have previewed...)
The thing is, w/ bloggers, you got a fair amount of "it's hard
to believe this is true" and "I haven't seen this confirmed" and
"I've heard the same thing but I havne't been able to confirm it
anywhere." That creates a little necessary skepticism. There was no
such followup by the MSM.
So I think the blogs outperformed the MSM. (Not that they don't
need the MSM, but you would have been better off reading a
selection of blogs and comments than reading your daily newspaper
directly.)
Though I can't understand why that CNN chick and the Fox guy
couldn't find a Guardsman early on.
I'm sure none of the people I talked to following the news of
rampant violence will even notice these stories about false reports
and rumors.
I've said in previous posts on this topic that I think there was
some bigotry involved in the assessment of the situation in New
Orleans. I still believe that, although I also believe there were
several other things that contributed to the misinformation. I
think people hear what they want to hear and move on. Sad, but true
most of the time. In this case, it was the affirmation of how poor,
black people would act in an environment of complete anarchy. Even
though that was not what was going on, people with bigoted
attitudes believed the news because they "knew that would happen".
I say all this because I personally know people who have done
exactly that.
I hope the Guardsmen and the clown lady get recognition and the
media outlets that did all the boo-hoo reporting go on a guilt trip
of re-reporting their own mistakes.
This article, from a Objectivist web site, was making the rounds
& made it into my in-box. It was disgusting when I first read
it & is even more so now:
http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026
I think the more interesting question that no one seems to be
asking is why National Guardsmen were apparently actively lying to
reporters. Pace the "Hooray for blogs, founts of all truth
and wisdom!" crowd, the "MSM" didn't just come up with the
Convention Center deaths story all by themselves. The
Times-Picayune specifically identified
the Guardsmen who provided the information:
Guardsman Mikel Brooks
Guardsman Phillip Thompson
See excerpt including their names here:
www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054816
Are these men total fabrications of the reporter? (Which I haven't
heard anyone claim.) If not, why were they lying about the number
and identity of the victims?
The Guardsmen in that article pointed out a few bodies, which
would not be unexpected in a tragedy of this magnitude, and
attached some hearsay to it. Isn't this pretty standard for urban
legends? Take a kernel of truth & some half-reliable sources
& explode it into something else entirely?
Clearly, the New Orleans mayor has a lot to answer for. I'd blame a
lot of this on bigotry, but if he's out there yammering on about
these things, then everybody has a seemingly reliable source for
believing it. Of course, he's all over the news channels - they
love him. I guess he gives them what they want. He'll probably get
reelected, too.
Kebko
As far as I can tell, the reasons for the misinformation, and the reaction to it, are the result of several different factors working together. Yes, there was bigotry regarding poor blacks. There was the desire by the Media for a sensational tradgedy. There was rumor mongering at ground zero. There was political grandstanding and manipulation by the Mayor and others. There was also the genuine chaos and misfortune of the actual disaster, too. I'm just glad that none of the really bad stuff was true.
I'm just waiting for someone to claim that it really WAS that bad, and that Matt Welch and "Major Ed Bush, public affairs officer for the Louisiana National Guard" are all in on it, trying to make it look not as bad as it really was...
"Hey joe, what channel is the blogosphere on?"
Internets? What's the channel for that internet? LOL.
"One of the reasons for Brown's tarring and feathering was his
ignorance of the Superdome mayhem." "joe, once again, tries to have
it both ways..."
I called this a week ago - the Bushbot talking point will be to
deliberately confuse the lack of food, water, medical attention,
and rescue with the gory stories about rampaging negroes. See, now
that the latter have been disproven, they figure they can take the
heat off of the pathetic emergency response by pretending that the
former never happened either.
"I'd say the feds are starting to look more and more like they did
the right thing, and picked up what was dropped by the state and
local folks." Uh, yeah, I'd say the presence of STATE National
Guardsmen in the refuge site, on the governor's orders, waiting for
days and days along with the displaced people for FEMA to show up
demonstrates a dropped ball by the locals, and a competant, swift
reponse by the feds. Again, LOL.
Kebko, SR,
I don't think it's at all unusual for people on the ground, who
don't have an operative communications system among themselves, to
pick up on rumors and repeat them. It's not what you'd call "good
discipline," and the mayor of the city, of all people, should
certainly know better than to credence and repeat information
without proof. But at the same time, I can cut those trying to cope
through the chaos of what was an alien world some slack. It seems
like an all-too-human, eternal failing.
Regarding the "Clown Lady" and "what was she thinking?"
Yes, I think she was just doing what she thoght was her job. It
takes a special kind of soul to be a clown.
"I'm just waiting for someone to claim that it really WAS that
bad..."
Yes, I'm sure you are. And the first time you read a story from
someone claiming that the flooding, hunger, thirst, and abandonment
of the refugees is being downplayed, I'm sure you will accuse
"liberals of trying to have it both ways" by claiming that those
stories were downplayed, while stories about your favorite
rampaging negroes were hyped. Bushbots are so predictable.
joe:
To help me form a clear assessment of your position, what elements
do you see as clearly the responsibility of the local govt and what
elements do you see as the responsibility of FEMA?
From this: "flooding, hunger, thirst, and abandonment of the
refugees is being downplayed" it kind of sounds like your view is
that security should have resided with the locals, but for
everything else the feds should have been the prime movers. Is that
a fair representation of your position?
No, Jason, I am not arguing for a clear division of labor along
those lines. The feds are supposed to provide a security presence
as needed - which they did with the 82nd Airborn. Likewise, the
locals should contribute what they can to a broad range of larger
efforts.
What I was saying was that, in the particular circumstance that
developed, with the levees breaking and the refuge site isolated
and overwhelmed, a desperate rescue and resupply requirement
occurring, and the local response capacity more or less washed out,
it was clear that the cavalry needed to rush into the breach. And
while in some ways, the feds' response was great, there were some
serious, gaping flaws, from certian operations of FEMA and DHS in
particular. They didn't do a good job preparing and prepositioning,
they didn't do a good job understanding what was happening and what
their needs were, and they didn't do a good job getting their act
together and getting aid in.
I don't buy into the "Louisiana failed" excuse as a defense of the
federal failure, because FEMA and the federal government as a whole
are supposed to be playing backup for when a catastrophe overwhelms
the locals' capacity.
Joe,
He who can look into the hearts of mortals and see their evil
(wrongly)
The point of my comments is simply, many Gods and Godesses launch
on DUH. False impressions are labled as truth and we meere mortals
are tossed about. Rarely do the Most High return to admit or
rectify their errors.
Great article, Matt!
Now that the stories of the collapse of civil society are being
disproven, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Are the stories we heard about various elements of government
interfering and making things worse being varified as true? In
particular, I am thinking of the story of the group trying to leave
the city led by the EMT conventioneers. The one that was stopped at
gun point by cops, set up a functional camp, and then forcibly
dispersed by other cops.
From time to time, I criticize Reason writers, and the media in
general, for doing too much op-ed and not enough journalism. Cathy
Young's guesses about what the 7/7 hijacker was thinking, when
there was a videotape out there with the answers on it, is the
classic example of this. That said, this here is some nice
journalism Mr. Welch. It took time and effort, but the payoff was
worth it in the end.
btw, I don't think anyone has brought it up, but the interviewed
Guardsman might be wrong when he says that some "rescuers" did not
start the rumor about helicopters being shot at. I still suspect
the rescue efforts could have been better, helicopter aspects
included. I would not be surprised at all if one or more
embarrassed "rescuers" made up the self-serving rumor to take off
some heat in the heat of the moment (but off-the-record, of
course). The Guardsman might have no way of knowing if his
co-rescuers acted without integrity. Even if he does know some bad
facts, I doubt he would be allowed to admit the same in press
absent grave damage to his career.
Still waiting on official bodycount, too (and any appropriate
journalistic inquiry into the veracity of the official number).
Paging Ms. Young!
Some of you have already addressed this subtler side of the
issue. Many of the "talking heads" were really pushing this racism
angle in NO and it's interesting to note that post-Katrina there
was all of this talk of racism regarding the response from the gov.
This same media was reporting all kinds of rumours as "fact"
wink-wink and, as noted by Senor Welch, they were pretty much
bullshit. Now that all of those stories about raped and murdered
children and piled bodies weren't true it makes one wonder if the
great folks who shouted out racism weren't practicing that sublter
racism. You know what I mean. "We have no confirmation that these
stories are true but because deep down we believe them coloureds
are just a step above the monkeys they probably are so here you go
people. Death. Child-rape. Murder. Come and get it! Negroes on a
rampage!" Never stated but always implied. Geez. The shit people do
to push their political agenda. Right AND, especially, Left.
If you'll excuse me I need to cleanse myself of this crap.
EiF
Fluid,
As I recall, there was relatively little noise made from the left
about looting and criminal gangs running amuck. The left was up in
arms about the lack of resuce and relief. The right was pushing the
rampaging negroes story, and complaining about the incompetance of
Governor Blanco, who was alleged not to have sent the National
Guard in early enough. If anything, the left was downplaying the
stories about looting and violence - remember the hue and cry over
the two pictures on Wonkette, where the white people had "found
supplies" and the black kid was looting?
The media, of course, was repeating both of these lines.
So no, I don't think conflating the stories about hunder, thirst,
filth, and medical emergencies (pushed by the left, proven true)
with those about rampaging negroes (pushed by the right, proven
false) captures the reality of how race influenced the
reporting.
OK, "proven mostly false" would have been better - there have been confirmed episodes of looting and an attack on a police station. Still, they were vastly exaggerated.
"I don't buy into the "Louisiana failed" excuse as a defense of
the federal failure, because FEMA and the federal government as a
whole are supposed to be playing backup for when a catastrophe
overwhelms the locals' capacity."
I don't disagree with this assessment. So, we are both judging the
fed response with an acknowledgement that they are the backup plan.
We must be diverging on what we see as a reasonable timeframe for
the backups to execute in the face of a complete meltdown by the
first string.
First, Jason, a complete meltdown by the first string should
have been anticipated. "Nobody foresaw the levees collapsing" my
ass. They ran the simulations. They knew what a major hurricaine
hitting the city would do. The fact that the DHS was taken by
surprise, and only started to organize a large scale response days
after the storm hit, is very damning.
Second, don't forget the Convention Center, and Michael Chertoff's
ignorance and denial about the facts - barking at the NPR reporter
for spreading rumors after being told about the people stranded
there.
That was a great read. I can't help but wonder if the woman in clown gear was anyone I know (I used to be a stiltwalker in NOLA). If you find out her name, or anything about her, you should put up a new H&R post about it..
"Uh, yeah, I'd say the presence of STATE National Guardsmen in
the refuge site, on the governor's orders, waiting for days and
days along with the displaced people for FEMA to show up
demonstrates a dropped ball by the locals, and a competant, swift
reponse by the feds. Again, LOL." - joe
So the conditions in the Superdome were or were not an example of
adequate response after all? The evacuation plan was sound and
soundly executed by the locals and didn't result in roughly 1,000
dead at last count? Make up your mind.
Jason Ligon says it best: "we are both judging the fed response
with an acknowledgement that they are the backup plan. We must be
diverging on what we see as a reasonable timeframe for the backups
to execute in the face of a complete meltdown by the first
string."
"it was clear that the cavalry needed to rush into the breach." -
joe
Ok, how fast do you think they can get there, and how fast do you
think they SHOULD get there? The logistical limitations of bringing
the Feds in is the reason most plans call for 24-72 hours of the
locals handling it. Of course, you seem to have the logistics all
figured out, so let's hear it.
"Yes, I'm sure you are. And the first time you read a story from
someone claiming that the flooding, hunger, thirst, and abandonment
of the refugees is being downplayed, I'm sure you will accuse
'liberals of trying to have it both ways' by claiming that those
stories were downplayed, while stories about your favorite
rampaging negroes were hyped. Bushbots are so predictable." -
joe
The only one reading off of talking points here is you, so don't
call me a Bushbot. I find it insulting, kind of like you would if I
started calling you a Stalinist. Stop ascribing stances to me that
I haven't espoused. Maybe if you were reading and responding to me,
rather than to some construct of me and the typical "Bushbot" that
only exists in your head...
FYI, I didn't say liberals - I said "joe." I was referring to you
specifically, but I can see how, since you seem to be singing from
the same sheet so faithfully, you might conflate the two.
Of course, I'm sure it makes you feel better to get the "Us vs.
Them" team thing going, especially since I don't have a team. It's
just me, but I figure I'm better off not relying on the hive mind
to supply my opinions for me. Maybe you should try it.
flailing rob,
"So the conditions in the Superdome were or were not an example of
adequate response after all?"
If you weren't trying so desperately to blur obvious distinctions,
this would be an easy question for even you. The presence of the
National Guard is evidence of an adequate security response. The
days and days of deprivation without relief or rescue is evidence
of an inadequate relief response.
"The logistical limitations of bringing the Feds in is the reason
most plans call for 24-72 hours of the locals handling it." A 72
hour response would have been nice. People died of thirst at the
Convention Center.
"Of course, you seem to have the logistics all figured out, so
let's hear it." We pay people for that, and they ran around and got
in each others way for days before getting their act
together.
And in case you haven't noticed, it's not just partisan Democrats
who've noticed this failure.
"The presence of the National Guard is evidence of an adequate
security response. The days and days of deprivation without relief
or rescue is evidence of an inadequate relief response." -
joe
Initial relief has been shown to be the state and local gov't. So
this is nonsense on your part.
"A 72 hour response would have been nice. People died of thirst at
the Convention Center." - joe
How about some citations that show a timeline...
"We pay people for that, and they ran around and got in each others
way for days before getting their act together." - joe
Yep, your expert opinion on this is all the proof that's needed
right? Wrong. Got something vaguely supporting these
assertions?
"And in case you haven't noticed, it's not just partisan Democrats
who've noticed this failure." - joe
No, but I've noticed that you only seem to have condemnation for
the other side of the aisle. That's called hypocrisy.
So joe now claims that the national guardsmen at the dome showed
the locals did their job. The rest is up to the feds. I wonder ? is
there any way of finding out what joe thought of the local response
before we found out that the guard was at the Dome? I honestly
don't know, but I am curious.
The issue however, is not to rehash the question of who bungled:
the locals or the feds. The question is why the MSM did such a
lousy job of separating fact from fiction.
And why did they fixate on a theme that said, in plain language,
the Bush administration did not respond to the Katrina disaster in
New Orleans because the victims were poor blacks? Where did that
come from? Is this the Louis Farrakhan school of reporting? Or
Charlie Rangel who claimed that blue suits were the modern day
dress of the KKK?
Joe, you seem to be connected. You have all the phrases down pat.
Give us the MSM spin.
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