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Should we be wishing each other a Happy 9/11? Robert A. George says "bah, humbug."
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 9:59AM|#
anything to further the ideology of militant jacobinism among the masses.
|9.8.05 @ 10:03AM|#
I can just imagine the "America Supports You Freedom Day"
festive songs...
"We wish you a merry Gitmo/We wish you a merry Gitmo,
We wish you a merry Gitmo/And an Abu Ghraib too"
"Aircraft we have heard on high..."
"Deck the halls with dead Iraqis, falalalala lalalala..."
|9.8.05 @ 10:04AM|#
"militant jacobinism among the masses"?
Do you have to use a respirator at that altitude?
|9.8.05 @ 10:04AM|#
Patriot blood just doesn't seem to nourish the Freedom Tree like it did in Jefferson's day, eh gaius?
|9.8.05 @ 10:10AM|#
At US Military bases in Japan, Dec. 7 is "slap a Jap day," and
most local-hire civilian employees take the day off to avoid the
hassle (at least that was the case ~20 years ago).
I shudder to think what would happen on bases in the Kingdom.
|9.8.05 @ 10:13AM|#
I'm surprised that so many ostensible patriots want to define our country by its worst moments.
|9.8.05 @ 10:18AM|#
I would think that 9/11 should be a day of mourning, and the anniversary of the fall of Kabul or some similar victory should be the day when we thank the armed forces.
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 10:22AM|#
Patriot blood just doesn't seem to nourish the Freedom Tree
like it did in Jefferson's day, eh gaius?
a little water brings life to the tree, mr ruthless. a flood sweeps
the tree up from its roots.
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 10:24AM|#
some similar victory
god help us when the transient effects of imperial police actions
become raison d'etre for holidays.
|9.8.05 @ 10:27AM|#
gaius-
Well, let's just say that it would be a better cause for
celebration than 9/11.
|9.8.05 @ 10:32AM|#
gaius
Just out of curiosity, is there anything in US history we should
celebrate? If so, what would be an appropriate way of
celebrating?
|9.8.05 @ 10:32AM|#
I don't think 9/11 represents a "failure" for the US, as Julian
Sanchez states in the article, nor do I think that creating a
holiday would send the wrong message.
First of all, the fact that 20 guys could come to the US, gather in
small groups freely, & bring some box-cutters on an airplane
along with their fanatical death-lust wasn't a "failure," it's a
freedom. We shouldn't be demanding that our government have either
the responsiblity or the ability to eavesdrop on groups of 20
people and search our pockets for small blades because the vast
majority of small groups and small blades in this country are not a
problem. When you give people the freedom to freely assemble and
carry small knives, you run a risk, but until recently we've seen
it as an acceptable risk.
furthermore, Remembering 9/11 is inevitable. 65 years later, we're
still remembering December 7th, and that didn't even happen on a
day that coincides with the number you dial in an emergency. 9/11
will always be a tough day to book a wedding or a baby shower. We
might as well acknowledge it. And if we co-opt the terrorist's
"victory" over unarmed and unsuspecting people by making it a day
that we celebrate, then it'll be one less morale-booster for
them.
|9.8.05 @ 10:35AM|#
the fact that 20 guys could come to the US, gather in small
groups freely, & bring some box-cutters on an airplane along
with their fanatical death-lust wasn't a "failure," it's a
freedom.
Maybe we should also celebrate Tim McVeigh's expression of freedom
in Oklahoma City, too. And add a few serial killers into the
mix--let's celebrate the fact that our Ted Bundys and John Wayne
Gacys would never have managed to pull off their crimes in
a totalitarian country!
Some woman got raped in my city a few days ago. I've never felt so
patriotic.
|9.8.05 @ 10:36AM|#
The title and the subtitle of the linked text are exactly the
same.
Though I guess you could read it like they were blues lyrics.
|9.8.05 @ 10:38AM|#
To add to my response to GG's interpretation, if you have the freedom to get drunk, that doesn't mean you should celebrate cirrhosis. If you have the freedom to smoke that doesn't mean you should celebrate lung cancer.
|9.8.05 @ 10:42AM|#
That guy who used my social security number several years ago to
get a cell phone (and pile up huge bills) would never get away with
it in Orwell's fictional universe.
USA! USA! USA!
|9.8.05 @ 10:47AM|#
I'm surprised that so many ostensible patriots want to
define our country by its worst moments.
It's the romance of the state. When it behaves badly, it is the
Power of the State; when it is slapped down, it is National Trauma
From Which We Will Rise. Every bad thing done by or to the state is
cause for a celebration of the state.
|9.8.05 @ 10:50AM|#
To be clear, I'm not complaining that law enforcement lacked the
Orwellian power to stop that guy instantly. I'm just saying that
when I think about how much I enjoy freedom, criminals slipping
through the cracks are not high on my list of things to
celebrate.
To me, the most inspirational thing on 9/11, aside from the rescue
personnel, was the private sector, not the public sector: Billions
of dollars in donations raised almost overnight, blood bank lines
stretched around the block, volunteer rescue workers streaming into
NYC and DC, and of course the civilian passengers who brought down
that last flight before it could reach its target. The public
sector has produced some fine heroes as well in this tragedy, but
on a day when the security apparatus of the state failed, it just
doesn't seem like the best time to have a big party celebrating the
public sector's virtues and achievements.
jimmy|9.8.05 @ 10:55AM|#
responding to a deadly attack on our soil by ousting the foreign govt most responsible for it is now an "imperial police action"??? good lord. keep smoking your medicinal marijuana and bend over wait for the next 9/11.
|9.8.05 @ 10:57AM|#
furthermore, Remembering 9/11 is inevitable. 65 years later,
we're still remembering December 7th, and that didn't even happen
on a day that coincides with the number you dial in an
emergency.
Remind me, who played the Pearl Harbor celebration this year?
Cowboy Troy, right? What, with all the pre-Christmas hullabaloo, I
forgot to watch it on Fox. What a dolt I am!!!
Phil|9.8.05 @ 11:05AM|#
responding to a deadly attack on our soil by ousting the
foreign govt most responsible for it . . .
When did we oust the government of Saudi Arabia? I appear to have
missed that.
|9.8.05 @ 11:17AM|#
I'm a DC commuter and am very, very glad that 9/11 falls on a
Sunday this year.
Not that any other day is that much safer. But it's still
creepy.
|9.8.05 @ 11:17AM|#
all this discussion is exactly the point:
"Freedom Walk" is nothing more than the smoke and mirrors used by
the current administration. Pay no attention to all our faults -
remember 9/11 and be afraid! Be very afraid! Be so afraid that you
will support our idiotic policies, no matter how antithetical they
are to our history and traditions!
W and the GOP have survived for 4 years off of exploiting 9/11.
Based on the success of their efforts, and the utter vacuity of
anything positive for them to market, I don't expect it (the
shameless exploitation) to end any time soon.
|9.8.05 @ 11:17AM|#
George and Thoreau are close with the Orwell analogies. For what it's worth, in my experience the people who demand that 9-11 be made a day of mourning are the same one who bitterly complained that the media wasn't playing footage of the attack enough so people wouldn't "forget" what the terrorists did. Rather than a "Freedom Day," what the perpetually patriotic really want is a One Day Hate (ala 1984's 2 Minute Hate seesions) to beat the propaganda drum for War against Eurasia... I mean, Eastasia... I mean Terrorism... I mean Global Extremism... awww skip it!
|9.8.05 @ 11:18AM|#
Thoreau --
We technically already have Armed Forces Day (the third Saturday in
May) as the day to "thank the armed forces", as well as Veterans'
Day and Memorial Day. Maybe some sort of "Emergency Services
Personnel Day" would be appropriate, but it would probably end up
being about as widely observed as Armed Forces Day.
I don't think naming the day is really the issue here -- it's what
sorts of commemmoration are appropriate for a particular
event/rememberance/holiday.
Of course, 135 years ago, people might have looked askance at guys
in uniform reenacting the battle of Antietam on its
anniversary.
|9.8.05 @ 11:31AM|#
My only problem with this whole thing is the choice of Clint Black to sing at the grand finale. They should have Merle Haggard singing the "Fightin" Side of Me". Other than that, Robert George is an obvious moron who fails to get "it". People who love America occasionally like to get together to "remember" (as in a "remembrance") the pain they felt when a painful event woke them up from their complacency. Like when they saw the twin towers going down, the attack on the pentagon, and a plane going down in a field in Pennsylvania. Shocking!
|9.8.05 @ 11:35AM|#
Akira-
Maybe mourning was the wrong word. Maybe "solemnity" would be a
better word.
|9.8.05 @ 11:35AM|#
Rac--
This isn't being marketed as a day of remembrance, but a day of
celebration.
|9.8.05 @ 11:36AM|#
Props to JMoore for the Serb comparison. Very insightful.
Akira, all those demands that the footage of people falling be
shown more remind me most of cults who use grotesque and
frightening imagery to make their targets more emotional and reduce
their critical reasoning skills.
Ted Kennedy once asked Rumsfeld a tough question about Abu Ghraib
at a hearing. Rumsfeld response was "Were mistakes made? Yes. Did
murderers kill three thousand Americans on September 11th? Yes!"
Same thing.
|9.8.05 @ 11:40AM|#
I am all for a 9/11 holiday - but only if they move it. 9/11 is too close to Labor Day. I suggest they move it to the beginning of March. We could use a holiday between New Year's Day and Memorial Day. Of course, it would have to be renamed. I suggest we call it "Fear For Your Life Day".
Tim|9.8.05 @ 11:48AM|#
I vigorously oppose the idea of a 9/11 holiday. I was trying to
work that morning, and that's exactly what most of the people
killed were doing as well, from busboys to stockbrokers. There is
time for mourning and remembering, but we've got work to do,
people!
Not coincidentally, I also would have favored rebuilding the WTC,
just as was....
|9.8.05 @ 11:49AM|#
Joe: Granted it's ancedotal evidence, but after 9/11 I remember
more than a few callers to the local right-wing morning squawk
shows bitching that the footage of the airliners smashing into the
WTC wasn't being shown enough. "People have a short attention span
and will forget what those filthy Moose-lims did to us and we'll
wuss out of the War On Terror," was the gist of their
argument.
My uber-Republican father is the same way. "They should play that
footage 24/7!" he bellowed about two weeks after 9/11. "The people
need to get angry!"
The Wine Commonsewer|9.8.05 @ 11:53AM|#
I don't see anything wrong with lighting a candle for the 09-11
dead. But I'm not a joiner so you won't see me taking part in any
walk to commemorate 09-11. I might put out the flag though.
Sometimes I do that on December 7 as well.
That said it just so happens that Mrs TWC and I are joining some
friends on September 11 for wine tasting in the vinyards at
Wilson Creek winery with dinner to follow. I thought 09-11 an
odd day at first but then just shrugged my shoulders, after all,
it's a Sunday, a normal day for an event at the winery this time of
year. But I'm still not tasting any white wine.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.8.05 @ 11:54AM|#
I'm cynical in a different way than you guys seem to be (or the
lefties George cites).
I see the government-ordained 09-11 spectacle as a logical
outgrowth of the movement that brings a platoon of grief counselors
to the local elementary school every time some kid's kitty gets
flattened by a careless soccer mom in a red Suburban.
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 11:58AM|#
is there anything in US history we should celebrate?
periods of peace, such as we've had. and very few of those, you'll
pardon me, were the product of blind and bloody nationalism or any
other militant political ideology, mr moore.
ed|9.8.05 @ 11:58AM|#
Isn't December 7 still celebrated in some parts as Pearl Harbor Day? Oooh, the ominous parallels...
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 12:00PM|#
Every bad thing done by or to the state is cause for a
celebration of the state.
a symptom of our dysfunction, mr gould, i agree.
|9.8.05 @ 12:06PM|#
Jesus christ... how much thoughtless, pointless flag-waving can
this country endure? Every time we have a national incident, it's
time to wave the flag... for no good reason other than to wave the
flag. The average people in this country have no sense of right or
wrong. They only have a sense of "PRO-US" or "ANTI-US". Either you
have a flag on your SUV, burning that Al-Queida oil, or a flag
shirt, or (from what I hear) ridiculous pro-US songs on the radio
encouraging people to be "patriotic".
Personally, I'm not picking up another fucking US flag or being
"patriotic" in any way until I have a REASON to be proud of my
country again. Call me nuts, but I like to have a *REASON* to be
patriotic.
|9.8.05 @ 12:12PM|#
Even before the freedom walk, I was just baffled by the idea of Patriot Day in general - it was created ex nihilo with no suggestion of how exactly to celebrate. What exactly should we be doing? Barbecuing? Putting magnetic stickers on gravestones? For lack of any more appropriate idea, I've just been holding Jenga tournaments.
|9.8.05 @ 12:13PM|#
Frank: Patriotism is the love of one's country. However, what most seem to forget is that all love is conditional.
|9.8.05 @ 12:15PM|#
rac,
Clint Black is the only problem you have with this celebration? I
assumed that you supported all of the feds' programs.
I concur with quasibill and Akira on this issue. The 9/11 attacks
were a "painful event", but I believe that the misguided response
by the clueless Bush Administration was an even greater disaster.
Iraq, TSA, HSA, Patriot Act, etc.
The "Freedom Walk" is intended to influence the simple-minded to
forget the mistakes that were made before and after 9/11. It is
supposed to focus our attention on how wonderful our country is and
how much we are indebted to our military. Reawaken the hate and
fear in the masses and they will seek shelter in the busom of the
Federal government. What a croc of shit!
|9.8.05 @ 12:17PM|#
I remember an e-mail curculated on the first aniversity that suggested we remember 9/11 by doing as many things as possible that would piss off bin Laden and included a charming list of suggestions. Anyone remember that list or try it?
Uncle Sam|9.8.05 @ 12:45PM|#
I had an idea for responding to the 9/11 attacks.
Having determined to get the taliban, rather than just dropping
bombs, the gov't could have ordered a bunch of aircraft like the
one hijacked, outfit them with radio controls, load them with high
explosives, and fly them, one after the other into the taliban/al
qaida hideouts.
Take that you bastards!
|9.8.05 @ 12:55PM|#
I agree with the sentiments expressed in the article.
September 11, 2001 was an attack on US soil by an enemy that had
declared war on the nation years earlier. It was a surprise
attack, not like that of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, but
rather like that of a stealth bomber hitting Baghdad. The war was
on for years, and our intelligence services knew it. This was a
defeat for us, by an enemy who wants us out of what it considers
it's territory, and we should not be celebrating it as Patriot
Day or anything else like it -- especially while we are still
involved in the war (and I mean here the war with the Al-Qaeda
movement, not Iraq).
A day of rememberance, perhaps. But Patriot Day, a day celebrating
freedom with parades and concerts and celebration? No.
|9.8.05 @ 1:22PM|#
Thanks to whomever fixed the test of the title and
subtitle.
Thanks to whomever fixed the test of the title and subtitle.
|9.8.05 @ 1:40PM|#
is there anything in US history we should
celebrate?
periods of peace, such as we've had.
Then I would like to a propose a holiday comemmorating the years
1974 through 1982.
We could call it Stagflation day.
|9.8.05 @ 1:45PM|#
Per gaius, I propose a holiday to celebrate the mid-to-late 1990s: The Feast of Saint Monica.
|9.8.05 @ 1:59PM|#
When a country would rather celebrate its defeats than its victories, that country is fucked and destined for the trashcan of history, IMO. If you love being defeated and hate the idea of winning, you'll probably see your desires fulfilled. Consider a thought experiment: if some major US city were to erect a monument commemorating our victory over the Taliban, how long do you think it would take before it was vandalized and/or became the Speaker's Corner for every America-bashing loon in town? (Please note that I'm not saying we should erect such a monument; it would be silly and pathetic in its own way.)
|9.8.05 @ 2:14PM|#
Celebrating periods of peace would be nice.
Except peace has this way of being so incredibly boring.
Plus, we couldn't celebrate the 4th of July. The Declaration of
Independence was essentially a declaration of war, after all.
Veterans' Day might work, if people would call it by its original
name of "Armistice Day." That was the the celebration of the end of
a war (with all its neat "11th hour" symbolism).
When Germany reunited, they had a damn hard time selecting a day
for a national holiday because something bad happened on every day
of the calendar. I remember hearing one critic at the time saying
that Germany needed to find "The Day Nothing Happened."
What was my point?
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 2:34PM|#
When a country would rather celebrate its defeats than its
victories, that country is fucked and destined for the trashcan of
history, IMO.
i'd agree, mr jd -- but we would be remiss, i think, if we didn't
point out that such apathy toward the state mechanism is both a
product of the way in which it has been run and, ultimately,
fitting. does the united states really deserve allegiance anymore?
can any human project whose goal is solely temporal? or is it
simply another false idol, another golden calf?
"you shall have no god but god" -- there is great wisdom in those
words, even if you don't accept the theology that is associated
with them. indeed, the sentiment is far older than
christianity.
|9.8.05 @ 2:42PM|#
I appreciate the ecumenical spirit, gauis, but mashing up the First Commandment with a quote from the Koran, and referring to it as Christianity, is just asking for a full-on Gunnels.
|9.8.05 @ 2:43PM|#
It [9/11] was a day of failure.
Yeah, but that's not all it was. I can actually see a
rationale for an American holiday on 9/11, if it was in the proper
defiant spirit. But to capture that spirit, you'd have to call it
"Fuck You, We Still Abide" Day. This is in the same spirit of those
who said the WTC should be rebuilt in the shape of an upraised
middle finger.
This is not to say I think this should be a national priority, but
I do kinda understand the feeling that may be behind this.
gaius marius|9.8.05 @ 2:51PM|#
referring to it as Christianity
lol -- sorry, mr joe -- i didn't mean to quote the commandment,
only to recite the sentiment which is common to judaism,
christianity and islam. perhaps i should've omitted the
"".
|9.8.05 @ 3:36PM|#
I am really suprised that nobody has even touched on this
tidbit,
"Hurricane Katrina demonstrates the importance of having an
efficient military in peacetime as well."
As for a national day of celebration, I feel that it would not be
appropriate, any more than celebrating Hamburger Hill or the
Japanese capture of the Alutian Islands. Should America remember
the event, by all means yes, but a celebration it should not
be.
As for the argument about Celebrating the fall of the Taliban, I
have one better, what about Celebrating the capture of Usama bin
Laden? Or perhaps even celebrating the end of the "War on
Terrorism" once it is defeated.
Oh, wait, that's right, it is not a winnable war and we can't seem
to find bin Laden anywhere.
|9.9.05 @ 12:50AM|#
Jennifer,
"And add a few serial killers into the mix--let's celebrate the
fact that our Ted Bundys and John Wayne Gacys would never have
managed to pull off their crimes in a totalitarian country!"
Serial killers do exist in totalitarian countries, they are usually
the leaders or thier lackeys. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hussein come
to mind.
|9.9.05 @ 8:16AM|#
Gee, Cliff, really? I never ever would have suspected that. And here I thought the point I was making was that it's asinine to view successful terrorist attacks, or any other such crimes, as a "celebration of freedom."
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