New at Reason (via Tech Central Station)

Nick Gillespie | August 11, 2005

As a longtime Eddie Murray fan--the last truly great Baltimore Orioles first baseman--you might think I'd be bothered by Rafael Palmeiro, the Viagra pitchman and "unintentional" (coff coff) steroid case currently playing the soft corner for the O's. But as I explain over at Tech Central Station, Raffy's 'roids don't bother me much.

Comments

|8.11.05 @ 10:20AM|#

Yeah! Eddie Murray!

'Take me home tonight
I don't wanna let you go till I see the light.
Take me home tonight
Listen honey, just like-a Ronnei said
"Be my..."'

What? Oh, nevermind.

|8.11.05 @ 10:31AM|#

joe,

I think he means the "Party All The Time" guy.

|8.11.05 @ 10:40AM|#

Nick, you should not sully yourself by associating with TCS.
No matter how honest or principled you may be, writing there is like taking the RJReynolds Chair for the Advancement of Nicotine Studies.

|8.11.05 @ 11:42AM|#

Nick - Well done. The whole steroid thing is just another lovely off-shoot of the insane WOD.

|8.11.05 @ 11:42AM|#

Err, not to be a pain, but... Raffy's 25 HR short of 600, with 50 games to play, so... maybe next season.

/Nothin' like the clutch hitter Murray was.

|8.11.05 @ 11:42AM|#

Hey coach, lighten up. Dude needs to make money now and again, nothing wrong with that.

|8.11.05 @ 12:00PM|#

Don,
I am light as a feather. Just as long as he realizes that the money is being paid in exchange for credibility and reputation.

|8.11.05 @ 12:50PM|#

i've been a supporter of steroids in sports since this whole latest controversey began. but my friend brought up a good point that basically made a convert out of me:

that is, part of what people love so much about baseball is the history of the game. it's fairly simple and has remained (relative to other sports) unchanged for around a century. so when roger maris hit 61 home runs in a single season, a lot of people reasonably expected that the record was so amazing that it would never be seriously challenged.

but then a few years ago sammy sosa and barry bonds just demolished it. sure, one of them might eventually have been able to challenge the record at some point in their career. but the chances of both of them dwarfing the record in the same season would just not have been there if it hadn't been for steroids.

so basically, now, i'm not against steroids because of some health risks they may or may not present (especially when considering the more serious health risks that sports present by their nature), or because they'll somehow negatively influence The Children. but i'm against them in baseball today because they separate the sport from its connection with the game as it was played for the first hundred or so years of its existence.

so rather than go that way, and effectively give the sport a facelift by legalizing steroids throughout, maybe they should just start another league that allows them. in other words, let the game be played with whatever advantages are available, but don't try to say that it's the same old baseball.

|8.11.05 @ 12:54PM|#

sorry, it's early. that is, between 1998 and 2001, the record was surpassed 6 times altogether, between sosa, bonds and mark mcgwire.

|8.11.05 @ 1:10PM|#

One might consider an article about why Murray was never as beloved by Orioles fans as other stars like Brooks, Frank, and Boog (a decidedly lesser talent than Murray). Murray was respected, yes, but never loved.

|8.11.05 @ 1:10PM|#

You are the first "die-hard baseball fan" I've ever seen who thinks its possible to hit 31 homeruns in the last two months of a season after 40 years old.

Also, that TCS article really seemed redundant, since all it did was recycle every pro-steroids article written since this whole mess started. Did you get paid to write that?

|8.11.05 @ 1:14PM|#

I was in Fenway Park last night, walking on the worn concrete that something like 170,000,000 other fans have walked on for the past 90 odd years, and zach's got it exactly right.

I don't think anybody who can compare the effect of weightlifting on the game to that of steroids can really be a baseball fan.

|8.11.05 @ 1:16PM|#

Of course he got paid to write that, jc. What do you think Nick Gillespie does for a living? The question is, did you get paid to think that?

And I don't think he did. I just think he's a bigger fan of ending drug prohibitions than of baseball.

|8.11.05 @ 1:32PM|#

Hey, you gotta check out thecoachblog.com. Some real heavy insights at that blog, let me tell you.

|8.11.05 @ 1:35PM|#

joe, while i of course don't buy that any of the altered game conditions that mr. gillespie mentions have had an effect on the sport comparable to that of steroids, i don't think that the argument is best served by revoking his True Baseball Fan status.

but your description of the feeling you get walking through fenway park describes what i'm talking about perfectly. the history of the game and the mystique that goes with something as simple as standing in a ballpark is one of the greatest elements of the sport.

when i walk through citizens bank park in philly, although it's obviously a new park, i think of all the phillies fans past who have been sent to jail for throwing full beer bottles at rival fans' heads.

|8.11.05 @ 1:46PM|#

but my friend brought up a good point that basically made a convert out of me:

that is, part of what people love so much about baseball is the history of the game. it's fairly simple and has remained (relative to other sports) unchanged for around a century.


You were converted by that?? Sheesh, that's akin to an Intelligent Design argument.

|8.11.05 @ 1:52PM|#

You were converted by that?? Sheesh, that's akin to an Intelligent Design argument.

haha, what?

|8.11.05 @ 1:55PM|#

I used to be a big fan of Eddie Murray, but it seems like his career never fully recovered after he made The Golden Child.

|8.11.05 @ 1:57PM|#

actually jc, maybe you're onto something. it could be like the new "Why do you hate America?"

"Marijuana ought to be legalized in the U.S." "That's akin to an Intelligent Design argument!"

|8.11.05 @ 2:05PM|#

History of the game, blah, blah, blah.

It's all nostalgic crap with no real basis in reality.

I used to be a 'hockey purist', whatever that means. I didn't want them to get rid of the red line, or begin shootouts, or play 4-on-4 during overtime, or any of that. Then I found out they've changed the game over the years, anyway, so what exactly would a 'hockey purist' be? Same thing with baseball. It has changed over the years. Not much, I'll grant you, but think about how quickly things have changed technology-wise just within my lifetime (30 years). And yes, special diet and focused, hard-core exercise have changed the game. People need to get over themselves as such 'die hard' fans, and just enjoy the damn game they love so much.

That's what I did with hockey. Of course, ymmv. As a libertarian, I'd never want to force my philosophy on anyone. :)

|8.11.05 @ 2:09PM|#

"And yes, special diet and focused, hard-core exercise have changed the game."

The numbers, and the look of guys on the field, just don't show it. That kind of change, compared to that wrought by steriods, is as a molehill to a mountain.

Look at a photo of McGuire in his "prime." Just look at the mofo!

|8.11.05 @ 2:18PM|#

lowdog, again. roger maris held the record for most home runs in a single season from 1961 to 1998. that's THIRTY-SEVEN YEARS.

before him, babe ruth held the record, with 60, in the 1927 season. that is, it took THIRTY-FOUR YEARS in order to beat the bambino's record by ONE.

between 1998 and 2001 - a space of THREE YEARS - that record was surpassed a total of SIX TIMES. between THREE PLAYERS. and the record was surpassed by as much as TWELVE.

sorry but the caps but some times they really are necessary.

|8.11.05 @ 2:42PM|#

Ok, guys, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm sure joe knows this. He's heard me whine about people whining about steroids, what, 10+ times now?

I know Canseco and McGuire were huge. Bats in those fools hands looked like toothpicks. But men are just plain bigger now than they've ever been. Is that an unfair advantage over the integrity of the game? What's the cause? Why should anyone care?

And I disagree about the 'molehill to a mountain' comment, joe. Motherfuckers can get huge without steroids. I work-out with some. Training and diet are waaaaay better now than they were even in Maris' day. Seriously, how much do you think he worked out compared to even a AA guy today? I don't know the answer, but I'd be willing to put some money on the AA guy working out a helluva lot more.

And then there's the "you've still got to be able to hit the ball".

Look, I'm sure a shitload of guys are juiced. I'm not arguing that it's had some impact on the game. I just disagree with how much impact, and I really just don't care. I still watch baseball (although I'm not as big a fan of it as I am football and hockey). And I'll continue to watch it, even if it becomes routine for guys to hit 40 homers in a season.

|8.11.05 @ 2:45PM|#

I don't think anybody who can compare the effect of weightlifting on the game to that of steroids can really be a baseball fan.

I'm not an expert, but as I understand it, taking steroids doesn't automatically build you up. You have to build up muscles the "natural" way, by lifting weights etc; all the steroids do is enable you to do more of that. So the difference between steroid users and others is not a matter of working hard vs. taking a magic pill, it's a matter of working hard vs. enabling oneself to work even harder.

|8.11.05 @ 2:47PM|#

again lowdog, don't look at the size, all that shit's subjective. look at those stats i posted and then disagree with "just how much impact" they've had on the game.

i have no problem with you not really caring. hell, i like football a lot more than baseball too. but the rules should be written by the people who do care.

|8.11.05 @ 2:49PM|#

So the difference between steroid users and others is not a matter of working hard vs. taking a magic pill, it's a matter of working hard vs. enabling oneself to work even harder.

exactly. only it's a Giant difference. (pun intended.)

|8.11.05 @ 3:33PM|#

Weightlifting not impacting the game in the way steroids has? If one's going to start saying that they're not for things that will affect the game in a big way then do we have to do away with the whole post-Jackie Robinson era? That's had more impact than anything else. Gotta keep the game pure, right?

|8.11.05 @ 3:41PM|#

don't be an idiot.

|8.11.05 @ 5:23PM|#

Nonsense. The increased strength of and size of players is due to doing one legged squats in boxer shorts and grinding your pelvis into the carpet.

|8.12.05 @ 10:33AM|#

Gee, I think I'll change my entire fucking worldview so that Greely won't call me a racist. FOD.

"So the difference between steroid users and others is not a matter of working hard vs. taking a magic pill, it's a matter of working hard vs. enabling oneself to work even harder."

No, it's a matter of working hard vs. 1) working not nearly as hard and getting the same results or 2) working just as hard, but getting much greater results.