New at Reason

Julian Sanchez | July 15, 2005

At what precise weight should the government take an interest in your Twinkie consumption? At what ratio of insurance dollars spent to Big Macs consumed? Jacob Sullum says it doesn't matter.

Comments

|7.15.05 @ 11:49AM|#

Y'all ought to clean up the health insurance industry (read: doctor-industry-except-exempt-from-antitrust-because-the-magic-word-insurance-is-used).

They don't follow actuarial data any better than the government might and there is very little meaningful choice in the market.

What will the insurance company do about the fat problem?

Ans: they will crank up fat people's premiums out of all proportion to expected cost (even if fat people are a cost savings!!!).

Why will they get away with this?

Ans: No real competition on the supply side in healthcare.

Reasoners ought to concentrate on fixing the private system in the US, in favor of fretting about government intrusions here.

|7.15.05 @ 12:13PM|#

Dave W,
All of us have put your suggestion on our calendar for first thing Monday morning.
Oh yes: do we work within the system or what?

|7.15.05 @ 12:39PM|#

So, if I'm fat and drop dead of a sudden heart attack at 60 (like, say, my grandfather), before sucking up anybody's Medicare/Medicaid/SS, won't the government owe me a lot of money? Or, at the very least, an apology for being such an irritating, useless bunch of busy-bodies?
Or maybe everyone should just bugger off.

|7.15.05 @ 12:41PM|#

No. You write some investigative jouranalism articles, highlighting examples where health insurance company premiums are clearly at odds with actuarial data.

For rextra credit: try to explain how any observed anomalies came to be.

If your article is good enough and well-researched enough, then someone will publish it. If you work for Reason, then get Reason to publish it.

|7.15.05 @ 12:42PM|#

When your health choices cost us all money through Medicare/Medicaid, it is my business. The goverment has a right to make anything that isn't good for us illegal.

|7.15.05 @ 12:49PM|#

I think what we need is some sort of Constitutional Amendment to protect all people from everything based on whatever the government decides is good, right and just...maybe we could get Hillary to start working on that.

|7.15.05 @ 12:53PM|#

How long before the government just starts making exercise mandatory?

And let's all give a big shout-out to Juanita's sister Jane.

|7.15.05 @ 12:54PM|#

Do you understand that the world does not revolve around you Dave W., and your do whatever it takes, ruin as many people's lives, so long as you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied along the way, just so long so you can make a name for yourself as an investigatory journalist, no matter how many friends you lose or people you leave dead and bloodied and dying along the way?

|7.15.05 @ 12:57PM|#

When you are fat, you don't spend money on gyms, exercize equiptment and vitamins and you spend it on junk food.

When you are thin, you spend money on gyms, exercize equiptment and vitamins and health food.

Therefore your weight may have some effect on interstate commerce and it is therefore the governments business.

|7.15.05 @ 12:59PM|#

I meant to enclose the above in <sarcasm></sarcasm>

|7.15.05 @ 1:04PM|#

And let's all give a big shout-out to Juanita's sister Jane.

Party people in the house say "whasssup!"

|7.15.05 @ 1:08PM|#

Unfortuneately, the country has been infested with santimonious eat your peas yankees, sometimes known as Puritans, like Krugman for all of its history. There was a time, when they were fighting things like slavery and segregation (after of course they had all gotten rich off the slave trade) when these sanctimonious assholes had a point. Now that those issues has been solved they have moved on to mundane and annoying topics like smoking and now obesity, because they have to have something about which to look down and grace the rest of us with their morally superior glow. They also have to have something to make them feel the whole weight of the ignorent, oppressive world on their shoulders. Whether it be the 55 MPH speed limit, prohibition, smoking, or now food, the rest of the freedom loving country has had to suffer their existence for over 200 years now. This is this their new fixation. I wish I could say it would be their last.

|7.15.05 @ 1:26PM|#

Are any of these food activists and anti-obesity folks in great shape themselves? How many of them have wash board abs and excellent mile times? Probably very few.

|7.15.05 @ 1:29PM|#

I meant to enclose the above in

Fred,

That's how it will past constitutional muster anyway.

|7.15.05 @ 1:30PM|#

"How long before the government just starts making exercise mandatory?"

Maybe after the mandatory telescreen installation.

|7.15.05 @ 1:31PM|#

Sanctimonious eat-your-peas Yankees? Tsk.

We prefer to be called "sanctimonious eat-your-chowdah Yankees."

Seriously, no geographic region, or subset of American culture, has an absolute monopoly on Nanny State-ism.

|7.15.05 @ 1:34PM|#

Stacella,

True that there are nanniests everywhere. The ones outside of the Northeast are just transplants from there.

|7.15.05 @ 1:41PM|#

The ones outside of the Northeast are just transplants from there.

Never been to Utah, have you?

|7.15.05 @ 1:44PM|#

Seems to me all the religious wackos are south of the mason dixie line.

|7.15.05 @ 1:48PM|#

Can't we just agree that every part of the country has nannies who suck in their own unique way? Northeastern nannies and California nannies force people to worship the God of Health; Southerners force people to worship the God of Christianity; Utahns the God of Mormonism; and Midwesterners pick and choose according to where their ancestors come from.

|7.15.05 @ 1:51PM|#

I eat my peas with honey.
I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny,
but it keeps them on my knife.

|7.15.05 @ 1:57PM|#

Seems to me all the religious wackos are south of the mason dixie line.

Not true, chowderhead. Religious whackos of all kinds are spread throughout the country.

|7.15.05 @ 2:07PM|#

Jane, you have a point. For those who pay Medicare taxes, and receive Medicare handouts, it certainly does affect them. But we never asked for Medicare to "save us".

I'll tell you what. Let those who want to, opt out of Medicare. We'll pay no taxes, and receive no benefits, and eat whatever the fuck we want, m'kay? Oh, and you'll owe me about $13,000.

Not David|7.15.05 @ 2:09PM|#

Gotta agree with David. I grew up in Lancaster, PA, and the religious do-gooders there are as bad as the ones here in North Carolina. (Not the Amish, I mean, who don't make it their business who anybody else worships.) They're just counterbalanced in state elections by Philadelphians.

What I loved most about Krugman's column (not to revert to the original topic, but) was his attitude of "if you disagree with me you're obviously either a toadie or a wacko." I have never in my life seen a good argument wrapped in that kind of attitude.

|7.15.05 @ 2:09PM|#

Religious whackos of all kinds are spread throughout the country.

Your big concentrations of Gaia-worshippers, for example, are on the West Coast.

|7.15.05 @ 2:10PM|#

OK, that's the second time I've read a Reasonite making the "meatloaf" comment, and I've gotta ask:

Who the fuck eats meatloaf regularly, let alone a second helping?

I worked in restaurants for 10 years ('Merican, Italian, French, Tex-Mex, and several fast-food places that I don't care to remember), and thus am so sick of cooking that I dine out more than half the time. I can't think of the last instance I even saw meatloaf on the menu--maybe at the kitchy diner, but probably not. Even in the prepared meals section of the half-dozen grocery stores I visit regularly, there's plenty of foods, but no meatloaf.

Find another clever food analogy. One that resonates with the portion of the public that still eats. Say, "the extra burrito," "the second helping of pasta," "second scoop on your ice cream cone," etc.

Thank you.

|7.15.05 @ 2:11PM|#

No real competition on the supply side in healthcare.

Written by someone with no first-hand knowledge of the business of medicine. There is brutal, cut-throat competition for certain patients, make no mistake.

The ones that pay well.

|7.15.05 @ 2:22PM|#

I love meatloaf, its one of my favorite meals. Whats wrong with meatloaf?

|7.15.05 @ 2:31PM|#

Gourmand:

Please present us with food alternatives that are as pleasurable to say, and as quirky to the eye, as the word "meatloaf." Bonus points if said food shares its name with a gothy opera rocker.

|7.15.05 @ 2:37PM|#

I rarely go to a restaurant to eat meatloaf, but it's a cheap and versatile dish to make at home, and allows for quite a bit of creativity in ingredients and flavors.
So yes, when I make it at home, I usually *do* eat a second helping.

|7.15.05 @ 2:40PM|#

My wife maks a great meatloaf. But she doesn't like the loaf shape from the pan, so it's more of a meatblob.

|7.15.05 @ 2:41PM|#

Money-saving (and health?) tip: use ground turkey instead of ground beef when making meatloaf.
Simple culinary tip: after mixing ingredients, split the meatloaf in half, creating a space in the middle, and add other veggies there to cook with the meatloaf.

|7.15.05 @ 2:42PM|#

David W,
To give you a little more serious answer:
Okay, say insurance companies aren't running their businesses to suit you.
How much of the variances are due to government mandates or attempts to curry favor with government? How do propose to find out?

|7.15.05 @ 3:13PM|#

Please present us with food alternatives that are as pleasurable to say, and as quirky to the eye, as the word "meatloaf." Bonus points if said food shares its name with a gothy opera rocker.

The more fundamental question is whether the extra ________ you had last night is the sort of thing the government should be worrying about.

Replace ____ with:

"hutch of humus"
"bucket of bernaise"
"snack of sweet potato"
"dollop of desert"
"mash of mousse"
"cup of candied yam"
"nottering of nosh"

etc....

I despite lazy writing and expect Reason to provide me, given the amount of time I waste here.

keith|7.15.05 @ 3:13PM|#

As a relatively thin and active person, I have countered you bunch of fatties stealing away my tax money with the simple tactic of moving through a procession of freelance jobs that do not offer me any hope of healthcare benefits. Take that!

Are washboard abs actually healthy? Or perfectly sculpted bodies? Those people seem to drop dead of heart attacks and other illnesses just as often as your standard issue tub-a-lub. Like I said, I generally pass as fairly fit, but when someone asks to see my six pack, it requires a trip to the fridge. And yes, that is a desperately overused joke, but what the hell?

|7.15.05 @ 4:17PM|#

i hate paul krugman

|7.15.05 @ 4:26PM|#

Some Faux Gourmand:

Check out this link for a brew pub I have been to a time or two. http://www.govnors.com/cgi-bin/publichouse/menu/gph_menu.cgi?cat=PUB%20FAYRE&file=gph_pubfayre.txt

They have Cajun Meatloaf on the menu.

|7.15.05 @ 5:09PM|#

Didn't John Stossel say something like "a government who can control what you eat can control who you have sex with?" If he did, I hope he says it over and over until it sticks.

|7.15.05 @ 6:11PM|#

meatblob

Thanks for the suggestion, joe. I've been trying to decide what to cook for a date who is coming over tomorrow - any idea which wine goes best with that?

|7.15.05 @ 9:12PM|#

Brian Courts,
I've been puzzling how to leak the "meatblob" quote to Missus joe.

Maybe she needs to come in here and give joe what for once and for all.

|7.15.05 @ 11:51PM|#

How much of the variances are due to government mandates or attempts to curry favor with government? How do propose to find out?

I believe that there are not enough independent suppliers (ie, insurance companies) in healthcare in that there are not enough suppliers and they do not act independently enough. I am not sure what the best solution in, but to give some indication along what lines I am thinking:

CONCEPT 1: decouple the insurance companies from the doctors; doctors (and groups of doctors) go back to setting their prices and policies like they used to; insurance companies deal only with their insureds and do not deal directly with doctors and pharmacies

CONCEPT 2: Recognize that health insurance companies are no longer acting as insurance companies, but rather as: (1) medical policysetters in healthcare; and (2) savings plans for inevitable costs (as opposed to insurance for unlikely risks). Because health insurance companies are no longer insurance companies, we remove any antitrust exemptions they may currently enjoy as insurance companies. Instead, we give them a healthy dose of antitrust, applying those (already-extant) laws to break insurance companies into tiny pieces. How many pieces depends upon how badly actuarials are mismatched to payment structures now; if the mismatch is as bad as I think it is, then the pieces should be made very granular indeed to get A. Smith's ol' invis hand working again.

CONCEPTS 3 et seq: Once that investigative jouranist writes that article quantifying the actuarial mismatchs (read: evidence of market failure) I am alleging here, lots of better economists than me will get engaged with this market failure and generate have better plans than I ever could.


SOCIALIZED MED: Notice that CONCEPTS 1 & 2 do not involve any increased socialization of medicine. S'prise!!!

|7.16.05 @ 12:11AM|#

Don't misunderstand, the meatblob rules.

And it really doesn't look any weirder than a bread-shaped loaf that's actually made of meat.

|7.16.05 @ 12:41AM|#

Written by someone with no first-hand knowledge of the business of medicine. There is brutal, cut-throat competition for certain patients, make no mistake.

The ones that pay well.

So they can segregate the price inelastic portions of the market and focus their competition there? I hope they choose you for their antitrust lawyer if the time ever comes.

|7.16.05 @ 12:44AM|#

italics should run thru "pay well" on the rcdq.

|7.16.05 @ 2:16AM|#

Don't misunderstand, the meatblob rules.

And it really doesn't look any weirder than a bread-shaped loaf that's actually made of meat.

Oh, I certainly wasn't disparaging the meatblob at all. I quite like the name as well as the rather individualist expression evident in such a non-traditional conception of the 'loaf.

|7.16.05 @ 5:28AM|#

As a single guy, I rarely make a meatloaf for myself. A local grocery with a deli that sells hot dinners makes excellent `loaf, though. A nice slice of that with the garlic mashed potatoes and the veg of the day, smothered in gravy - baby, that's good!

Other posters have pointed out the popularity of meatloaf with the married crowd. Meatloaf is one of the great comfort foods, and nobody makes it better than your Mom, or whoever did the cooking in your family.

As for surcharging the differently massive, I expect that state legislatures will write law on this. The question is whether they will mandate non-discriminatory pricing, or some sort of price schedule based on BMI ranges. The states have pulled some nasty crap like requiring that insurers authorize payments to chiropractors and who knows all what else. It tends to be one of those That which is not mandatory is forbidden situations, to tip the cap to the T.H. White thread.

Kevin
(Does Lean Cuisine® make meatloaf?)

|7.16.05 @ 7:26PM|#

I like a good slice of cold meatloaf on a sandwich. Although, as a single dude, my occasions for making meatloaf, then letting it get cold in the fridge, and then making a sandwich out of it, are practically zilch. All those steps!

|7.16.05 @ 11:02PM|#

The Meatblobs would be a kewl band name. Mëätbløb™ if they play metal.

Kevin

|7.17.05 @ 12:02AM|#

Hey, Kevin, nice umlauts! (And I don't usually say that to a guy.)

|7.17.05 @ 1:05AM|#

Wasn't there a movie, Godzilla vs. The Meatblob or something...? If not, there should be. Maybe it was just a bad Japanese translation.

I think www.meatblob.com is still available. Might be worth registering it joe; sounds like a marketable name.

|7.17.05 @ 5:26PM|#

Meatloaf, smeatloaf, double-beatloaf. I hate meatloaf.

|7.18.05 @ 12:28PM|#

Brian C: You are probably thinking of "The Blob" and "Godzilla vs. The Smog Monster."