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The Greatest American Heroes (Believe It Or Not)
The Discovery Channel has announced its list of the 25 greatest Americans. It's a poll, and therefore theoretically represents some slice of public opinion, except it's one of those polls where the voters are limited to 100 "nominees," including such unlikely choices as Jackie Onassis and Donald Trump. So much for the vox pop. (To be fair, if they allowed a completely open election, they probably would have been swamped with votes for Ayn Rand and L. Ron Hubbard.) The victor, for whatever it's worth, was Reagan.
At any rate, while I'm sorry to learn that George W. Bush outpolled Thomas Jefferson, I'm happy to report that Elvis beat FDR.
[Via Anthony Gregory.]
Update: I stand corrected -- the original 100 nominees were selected by popular vote as well. I presume it was the Hubbard voters who got Tom Cruise onto the list.
|6.29.05 @ 9:39AM|#
Jimmy Carter made the list of 100? Michael Jackson? Tom Hanks?
Brett Favre? Wow.
Where was Hulk Hogan?
|6.29.05 @ 9:44AM|#
So basically, it's been freeped. Ronald Reagan, the Greatest
American of All Time.
Reminds me of when Howard Stern told his listeners to vote for
"Hank, the Angry Drunken Dwarf" in People Magazine's Sexiest Man
Alive contest. He won by a mile, but they wouldn't count his
votes.
|6.29.05 @ 9:46AM|#
Dr. Phil made the list of 100 Greatest Americans of All-Time too. James Madison wasn't deemed important enough though.
|6.29.05 @ 9:47AM|#
Evan
We must be living in the golden age. Three of our last four
presidents are in the top ten.
Jesse Walker|6.29.05 @ 9:48AM|#
So basically, it's been freeped.
Meanwhile, one of the liberals on The Daily Kos was telling
people, "Vote for anybody but Reagan." I'm not sure everyone
out there understands how polls work.
|6.29.05 @ 9:49AM|#
I'd lean towards agreeing with Joe in that it was FReeped, but that doesn't explain Slick Willy in the list. Regardless, it's obviously not a list to be taken seriously.
|6.29.05 @ 9:50AM|#
Not to wax gaius on everyone, but this seems to be telling us something about the current state of Greatness as a concept.
|6.29.05 @ 9:51AM|#
Slick Willy is there in hopes that his cultists would participate in the poll. Not enough were, so the FReeper choice won.
|6.29.05 @ 9:54AM|#
How bitterly ironic that Billy Graham trumped Thomas Jefferson...I am officially terrified.
|6.29.05 @ 9:59AM|#
Yet more evidence that we get the government that we deserve. It is a pity that the few good people get punished by the whims of the majority of stupid ones.
|6.29.05 @ 9:59AM|#
except it's one of those polls where the voters are limited
to 100 "nominees," including such unlikely choices as Jackie
Onassis and Donald Trump. So much for the vox pop. (To be fair, if
they allowed a completely open election, they probably would have
been swamped with votes for Ayn Rand and L. Ron
Hubbard.)
Actually, the list of 100 nominees was chosen by the vox pop.
I was kinda hoping someone like Dr. Phil, Tom Cruise, or Ellen
DeGeneres (all in the top 100 list) would get enough gag votes to
win, making Discovery look even more idiotic than they do now.
|6.29.05 @ 10:01AM|#
The celebrity and modern-day politician choices are just vox
populi at work, so the less said about them, the better. But
Einstein seems a little questionable, given that so many of his
breakthroughs came before he emigrated. Also, Neil Armstrong? Sure,
he deserves a place in history, but that place owes a lot to
luck.
And if you're going to pick someone from the IT world, I'd take not
only Steve Jobs but also Michael Dell or the recently-departed Jack
Kilby over Gates.
|6.29.05 @ 10:05AM|#
Oprah trumped Jefferson. Good lord...
It's tempting to use this poll as proff that the masses are asses,
but perhaps it's only proof that people who respond to on-line
polls about who the greatest American is are asses.
|6.29.05 @ 10:11AM|#
Other people who made the Top 100 Americans instead of James Madison include Barbara Bush, Laura Bush, Christopher Reeve, John Edwards (unfortunately there were no votes for John Ewards), Maya Angelou, Mel Gibson, the Governator, friendly fire victim Pat Tillman, Tiger Woods, and Barrack Obama (whose numerous achievements include defeating Alan Keyes, being a Democrat, and being black).
Jesse Walker|6.29.05 @ 10:14AM|#
Actually, the list of 100 nominees was chosen by the vox
pop.
Thanks for the correction, Phocion. I just posted an update.
|6.29.05 @ 10:26AM|#
L-L-L-LAURA BUSH? It wasn't bad enough that her dirty husband was on the list, was it? They had to go and put HER on there? Just curious: WHY!? What in the HELL has she done? Her inclusion alone is enough to discount this entire thing. Bloody hell. What is wrong with people?
|6.29.05 @ 10:29AM|#
Btw, if anyone thinks that Americans are alone in showing such imbecility, let me direct you to the results of a BBC poll in which British respondents ranked Lady Di above Shakespeare and Newton. Though in all fairness, the top 100 appears slightly less asinine than its Yankee counterpart.
|6.29.05 @ 10:41AM|#
These things are pretty much name recognition tests, right? So you put Oprah and Laura Bush on it and a few mouth breathers will click.
|6.29.05 @ 10:53AM|#
Chicago (AP) Monday, June 27, 2005
Media conglomerate The Onion announced today the acquisition of
multimedia giant Time-Warner. The merger includes controlling
shares of ATT which owns the USA Network, Black Entertainment
Television, Discovery Channel and Home Shopping Network. Onion
officials stated they are excited about the opportunity and will
strive to continue the excellence in programming, news and
entertainment that Time-Warner and ATT are noted for.
|6.29.05 @ 10:58AM|#
Brian,
I would guess that most people in this country, not just the mouth
breathers, would know who Oprah Winfrey and Laura Bush are, but
wouldn't know who James Madison and Alexander Hamilton are.
So it was a popularity contest. Probably has as much meaning as who
won high school class president in 1982.
|6.29.05 @ 11:07AM|#
Yeah, I have a hard time envisioning G.W.B. as one of the
all-time greats. Seeing his name (and some of the others) next to
the likes of Lincoln, Jefferson, etc. reminds me of the old UB
student magazine. They once filled space with a fake ad for a
fashion designer. The tagline read,
"New York----Paris----Milan----Cheektowaga."
|6.29.05 @ 11:12AM|#
230 years of American history - and that is the best list that
the people could come up with? Holy shit, we are living in
Palookaville.
The clueless American public worships vapid celebrities, greedy
capitalists, and blowhard politicians. They are suspicious and
unappreciative of leaders with intelligence,ideals, and integrity.
It is a sad commentary on the mind of the average American.
I blame the corrosive effects of television and religion. The best
antidote is a more thorough education in history and science.
|6.29.05 @ 11:15AM|#
Popularity contests like these always have ridiculous people in them, but the ridiculous ones fall out soon enough. I bet twenty five years ago this same poll would have had Pat Benatar on the list.
|6.29.05 @ 11:22AM|#
For all the talk about the Suck-driven-hipness
of Reason, this is an incredibly lame thread. It's probably even
below complaining about horrifying summer
fashions.
Anon
drf|6.29.05 @ 11:36AM|#
I'd like to enter a late nominee:
our very own Dr. Thoreau (who's probably moving now)
and Warren still wins for his "doot doot" two years ago. :)
|6.29.05 @ 11:58AM|#
Probably has as much meaning as who won high school class
president in 1982.
Speak for yourself loser!!
|6.29.05 @ 12:02PM|#
I was really surprised Kerry didn't make the top 100 list. I mean, Edwards but no Kerry? That's a major diss.
|6.29.05 @ 12:08PM|#
phocion
Barrack Obama (whose numerous achievements include defeating
Alan Keyes, being a Democrat, and being black)
He is also young.
I was in a discussion about him the other week and he was they only
person I could think of who became a national figure because of his
potential rather than ANYTHING he has done. Yeah, he won an
election, but one that any Democrat would have. Its like someone
placed the line "Barrack Obama is the future of the Democratic
Party" in some talking points and thats how he became famous. I
don't have anything against him, maybe when he does something I
will.
|6.29.05 @ 12:19PM|#
Interesting is the idea that to be among the greatest of Americans, one must be famous.
|6.29.05 @ 12:29PM|#
temujin334,
Yeah I don't have anything against him either, but like you say, as
of now he's just hype. I think I could have beaten Alan Keyes.
drf|6.29.05 @ 12:39PM|#
Phocion:
You said it. I left my senate portion blank, as I couldn't stand
the LP candidate, either.
It'll be interesting to see how the GOP in Illinois tries to
recover from this. Hopefully they'll throw in a "limit government
power and spending" candidate in there. Not one wrapped in the
flag, not one gushing about "family values" or one who confuses
Iraq with 9/11, and one that we can hold accountable.
Illinois: our carpet bagger laws make it possible for that part
time circus freak to run. He, Keyes, only won two counties. Imagine
what THOSE counties are like!
|6.29.05 @ 12:45PM|#
I live in Dallas, and somebody in my neighborhood had a Barack Obama sign in his yard last fall. He's already on lists for potential 2008 presidential candidates, although often times as a likely veep.
|6.29.05 @ 12:53PM|#
I live in Dallas, and somebody in my neighborhood had a
Barack Obama sign in his yard last fall.
Well given the reputation of Chicago politics, those Dallas
residents may have voted for him.
|6.29.05 @ 12:55PM|#
Okay, if Ocra made the top 10, why not Martha Stewart? What did Ocra do that Stewart didn't? Please, someone tell me.
drf|6.29.05 @ 12:56PM|#
AND, Temujin334, we the citizens of Chicago are thankful for
that, too. :)
Although a recent poll has Jesse Jr. leading Ritchie!
|6.29.05 @ 1:05PM|#
Re: Obama ...
He's done some good stuff locally, but he was pretty thoroughly
groomed by Illinois President of the Senate Emil Jones' camp. There
is a lot of hype around around him. Part of that excitement around
the Dem party is that he is viewed as a truly progressive Senator,
not a centrist/DLC/Corporate type of guy. But yeah, even though I
voted for the guy, and think he's a good /charismatic speaker, so
far he hasn't shown much but potential. I dont think it bodes very
well for Dems when the candidate to get most excited about is the
guy with no record and lots of "potential".
|6.29.05 @ 1:11PM|#
Okay, if Ocra made the top 10, why not Martha Stewart? What
did Ocra do that Stewart didn't? Please, someone tell
me.
Martha doesn't give out enough free cars to her fans.
"Ocra". Man, that takes me back. My uncles used to call her Ocra
Windbag when I was younger.
|6.29.05 @ 1:14PM|#
Please. This wasn't a poll, it was a quiz. Nobody wanted to look
stupid for not knowing who exactly everyone on the list was, so
they went for the people who they immediately recognized. I'd put
about as much stock in a poll like this as I would a poll that
tried to determine the 10 greatest advances in physics.
Despite that, anyone want to bet that this gets used as ammo to
rename the Mississippi River the Mississippi
Reagan?
|6.29.05 @ 1:22PM|#
Part of that excitement around the Dem party is that he is
viewed as a truly progressive Senator, not a centrist/DLC/Corporate
type of guy.
And the media's largely viewed him as the opposite, as someone who can go "beyond red and blue" and touch the hearts of people in both parties. Just more proof he's a blank slate onto which people can project anything at this point.
|6.29.05 @ 1:33PM|#
I saw 'Ocra" and briefly thought Orca the movie killer whale made the list. That would get this thread forty more posts like crushinators up there.
|6.29.05 @ 1:34PM|#
Jimmy Carter made the list of 100? Michael Jackson? Tom
Hanks? Brett Favre? Wow.
Hey, now. Michael Jackson made Thriller, man. Thriller.
[/Chappelle]
And forget Dubya and Billy Graham -- Oprah Winfrey beat
Thomas Jefferson. (Oops, a couple people already pointed that
out.)
Polls suck.
Do polls suck or not? Everybody -- vote in your opinion now!
|6.29.05 @ 1:34PM|#
People are misinformed and value celebrities over historical figures? Please excuse me for not being as surprised by this as everyone else. Do any of you ever talk to "normal" people? They don't have conversations about history they talk about whats on E!, in People magazine, or what happened on TV last night.
|6.29.05 @ 1:47PM|#
Herman:
You got Ocra confused with Opra? Geez, I know there is a simple
letter switch, but two figures couldn't be further apart.
One is an ugly, evil, fat, huge eating machine hellbent on getting
it's way, and the other is a fictional killer whale. Get it
right.
Windypundit|6.29.05 @ 1:57PM|#
Despite the ridiculousness of picking the Greatest American, I liked this list for its broad sample of greatness. There are a lot of ways to be great in this country. Elvis Presley and Bob Hope, for example, improved the lives of millions of people just a little bit. They may not be the greatest Americans, but they're certainly among the greats. Besides, unlike some of the Presidents on the list, neither one of them has ever got this country into a war.
gaius marius|6.29.05 @ 2:26PM|#
Not to wax gaius on everyone, but this seems to be telling
us something about the current state of Greatness as a
concept.
beat me to it, mr ligon. i'm sure if you'd have given 2nd c romans
this poll, a number of gladiators and minor contemporary poets and
playwrights would've showed up on the list, along with recent
emperors like trajan and hadrian probably along with vercingetorix,
the noble savage -- at the expense of figures like cincinnatus and
lucius junius brutus.
gaius marius|6.29.05 @ 2:28PM|#
Elvis Presley and Bob Hope, for example, improved the lives
of millions of people just a little bit.
this just slays me. as though what they represent -- the rise of
mass distraction and escapism, the throwing off of manners and
restrictions -- isn't precisely source and symptom of
civilizational decline.
|6.29.05 @ 2:38PM|#
Okay, if Ocra made the top 10, why not Martha Stewart? What
did Ocra do that Stewart didn't? Please, someone tell
me.
She didn't get arrested for defending herself against false
allegations. Remember, kiddies, when you've been accused by the
feds, don't proclaim your innocence!
gaius marius|6.29.05 @ 2:49PM|#
the original 100 nominees were selected by popular vote as
well.
take a good look at the list of 100 -- no less than 42 of them are
entertainment/sports figures, including six of the top 25. that
says everything about the escape from history, doesn't it?
|6.29.05 @ 2:50PM|#
Folks:
Forgive the blunt threadjack.. but who exactly had a hard-on for
Stewart, anyway? Conservatives who were threatened by a hugely
successful woman? Liberals who were sour grapes about a capitalist,
even though she was female? Both?
|6.29.05 @ 3:21PM|#
As silly and irrelevant as the list is, I'm really puzzled over Brett Favre being there. I don't think most fans would consider him the greatest quarterback ever, much less the greatest player ever. Was the poll biased towards Milwaukee? Where's Unitas, Staubach, Montana, Elway? Where's Terry Bradshaw? He won 4 Super Bowls, threw the immaculate reception, makes nifty commercials, overcame clinical depression, does play-by-play AND was in Cannonball Run.
|6.29.05 @ 3:23PM|#
Mr. Nice Guy- I've always suspected that it was a matter of choosing someone that was A) public enough to capture media attention and B) not a part of the "in group" when it came to high-level shenanigans. Martha was as famous as a Ken Lay, and she didn't have to be protected as a result of any quid pro quo arrangements with any *ahem* governmental authorities. A similar situation was in play when Microsoft got nailed back in the late 90s.
|6.29.05 @ 3:28PM|#
Something that strck me about the ahistoricism of people is one of my roommates. She's a nurse from Michigan originally and she was telling me how one time she was in Mardi Gras and got Confederate Flag beads, then she later got a stern talking to from a black guy and she didn't understand why. She thought it was from the Dukes of Hazzard, which it is. When I explained to her that it was the Confederate Flag during the Civil War and black people have some understandable negative feelings about it. When I told her it was the South's flag (she thought it was ours), she asked which one was ours. Then she asked why some people fly it and I explained the Southern heritage thing. Then I explained that the whole conflict over the flag is that some people see the onfederate flag as analogous to the Nazi flag (representing slavery rather than the Holocaust in the latter case) and others see it as a regional symbol of pride and independence.
|6.29.05 @ 3:45PM|#
scape,
Not to mention Marino, Aikman, Brady, Young, possibly one day
Manning. Favre is the Cal Ripken of the NFL.
|6.29.05 @ 4:01PM|#
If you want Ayn Rand to make a list, try a list of the worst novelists who ever lived. She might not make even that one because, outside a small circle of libertarian cultists, few have ever bothered to read her.
|6.29.05 @ 4:10PM|#
I don't think Marino, Aikman, Brady or Young owned
slaves...
Oh no, I made Gaius' point for him!
Seriously Gaius, when does mass entertainment go from cheering
commoners up to distracting them in a deletrious fashion? One could
argue that 9/11 increased the number of average Americans
interested in politics, but it hasn't reversed civilizational
decline.
I suppose at this point Brett Fav-re has passed Bart Starr amongst
Chesseheads under sixty.
|6.29.05 @ 4:10PM|#
That small circle must have deep pockets then. I guess the people that don't buy it are too busy trolling Libertarian threads to read it anyway.
|6.29.05 @ 4:16PM|#
I can't take this list seriously without the inclusion of Thomas Szasz, Joey Ramone, or John Wilkes Booth.
Windypundit|6.29.05 @ 4:31PM|#
this just slays me. as though what [Elvis Presley and
Bob Hope] represent -- the rise of mass distraction and
escapism, the throwing off of manners and restrictions -- isn't
precisely source and symptom of civilizational decline
Huh? The "mass distraction and escapism, the throwing off of
manners and restrictions" is also known as fun. It's not
the decline of civilization, it's the whole point of
civilization.
All the rest of it---the politics, the governments, the wars, the
intense development of new technologies, the building of
industries, the back-breaking labor---is the price we have to pay
for a better quality of life. It's important to pay attention to
the price we're paying, to limit the cost (wars are especially
expensive), and to use our resources efficiently instead of letting
people in power steal from us, but don't confuse the means with the
end. The goal is to have good lives.
raymond|6.29.05 @ 4:33PM|#
here are a lot of ways to be great in this country. Elvis
Presley and Bob Hope, for example, improved the lives of millions
of people just a little bit.
While George W Bush is destroying the lives of tens of thousands of
people. A lot.
gaius marius|6.29.05 @ 5:05PM|#
fun -- It's not the decline of civilization, it's the whole
point of civilization.
the prosecution rests.
gaius marius|6.29.05 @ 5:20PM|#
Gaius, when does mass entertainment go from cheering
commoners up to distracting them in a deletrious fashion?
about the time hobbies turn into industries. kicking a ball around
for fun or as part of a religious ceremony/rite of passage is one
thing; building 100,000-fan stadiums to watch people do it in day
after day is another.
the olympics are a good case study. in the 8th c bc, they were a
religious event, including ritual sacrifice, et al. but, as greek
decadence advanced in the 6th-5th c bc, the games became sport --
events were added, rituality was diminished, contestants grew
famous, society dissipated.
similar devolution characterized the roman gladiatorial bloodsport
-- from a life-affirming ritual sacrifice in which the participant
was ancillary into entertainment for the masses in which the
gladiator was a hero. the roman variant degenerated to the point
where the emperor commodus fancied himself a gladiator -- a
horrifying spectacle of social perversion, which droves of romans
turned out to see. (rather like a president-actor.)
the onset of mass entertainments in the west only dates to the late
19th c -- professional athletes were the bottom of the social
barrel even as late as 1890. the inversion of the social ladder --
now putting athletes and actors on top, instead of the bottom -- is
part and parcel to social decay.
Windypundit|6.29.05 @ 5:35PM|#
gaius,
I drive my car a lot, which leads to higher maintenance costs.
Sometimes people tell me I should drive less to keep the costs
down. I think they're confused. The whole point of having a car is
to go places. In complaining about how fun is impairing
civilization, you seemed to be one of those people.
However, reading your 5:30 post, I think perhaps you're not
complaining about the wear and tear on the car. Rather you're
complaining that because I've got the CD player on so loud, I'm not
noticing that the car needs repairs.
Sorry for the strained analogy, but is that about right?
|6.29.05 @ 5:41PM|#
Hey, just for grins, you can compare this list to REASON's 35 Heroes
of Freedom , which includes such worthies as John
Ashcroft, Larry Flynt, Madonna, Martina Navratilova, Richard Nixon,
Les Paul and Dennis Rodman. (Only, REASON created it's
eclectic "WTF!" list on purpose.)
PS: Hey, I have a question after looking at REASON's list. Is the
Evan Williams who posts here THE Evan Williams, who basically
helped invent blogging?
|6.29.05 @ 6:03PM|#
Man, Mark Twain didn't even make the list.
Mark Twain made the list of 100. But Hemingway, Faulkner, Steinbeck, or any other novelist? Nope. Reading is hard.
b-psycho|6.29.05 @ 7:21PM|#
You mean to tell me that the average person is extremely fucking
stupid? Oh my god, I never realized that before!! Next thing you
know they'll say babies don't come from a stork!
I have to say, the more I look at my fellow americans, the more I
question democracy. LOL@folks seriously picking Reagan over
Jefferson for cryin out loud...
|6.29.05 @ 7:25PM|#
"Elvis Presley and Bob Hope, for example, improved the lives of
millions of people just a little bit."
I will echo Christopher Hitchens' challenge on Bob Hope: Can you
recall *one* funny joke that he made? (Or rather, can you recall
one joke that he made, which is pretty much the same point.)
Windypundit|6.29.05 @ 8:40PM|#
No, I can't recall a single funny joke by Bob Hope. A lot of
stand-up is like that. Comedy, especially stand-up, is tied closely
to the culture and period in which it was created.
It doesn't mean Bob Hope wasn't important in his day:
http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/08/22/daily.html
|6.29.05 @ 9:16PM|#
L�fasz a seggedbe.
My exremely scanty knowledge of Hungarian, plus my Googling skills,
tells me this means "A horse penis up your ass," which isn't very
nice.
Nekulturny.
|6.29.05 @ 9:35PM|#
Oh, sure, anybody can bitch about the list. But what are you
willing to do about it?
Here's a little game. I decided to look at the the initial pool of
100 nominees at the Discovery Channel site, and, limiting
myself to those possibilities, I made up my own list of the 10
(just 10; 25 is too many) greatest Americans. I found that ranking
them from 1 to 10 was too much effort, so I just listed them
alphabetically.
Alexander Graham Bell
Benjamin Franklin
Bill Gates
Thomas Jefferson
Martin Luther King Jr.
Elvis Presley
Ronald Reagan
Mark Twain
George Washington
Malcolm X
(Lucille Ball was on there originally, but then I realized I forgot
Washington, so I had to bump her. Sam Walton almost made the list,
but I had to bump him for Benjamin Franklin.)
Jesse Walker|6.29.05 @ 10:28PM|#
Stevo: One major difference between this list and our list was
that we didn't claim to be listing the 35 greatest heroes
of freedom; just 35 people who are heroes of
freedom.
Re: Bob Hope: He was in a lot of funny movies back in the '40s. As
with Muhammad Ali or the Rolling Stones, it's a mistake to judge
him by his later career.
|6.30.05 @ 1:19AM|#
I know it's too late for anyone to read this but...
Why are the Wright Brothers listed as one person?
All in all, the list has to be one of the most hilarious pieces of
reading I have ever encountered. Lance Armstrong? Richard Nixon?
Condoleezza Rice?
|6.30.05 @ 1:30AM|#
George Soros? Nope. An enemy of capitalism. Appears to
know a lot about finance, not so much about economics.
Ernie Kovacs? Genius, cool guy.
Joe Nameth? I vaguely remember that he was pretty
entertaining, but not as entertaining as Ernie Kovacs.
Imry Nagy? I looked him up and he seemed pretty cool as
far as commies go, but is probably disqualified from the "greatest
Americans" list on account of not being an American.
(Are you Hungarian?)
|6.30.05 @ 8:14AM|#
Isn't the Discovery Channel supposed to be something that is
educational, enlightening, and yet entertaining?
(cue laugh track)
Jack Webb. Where the fuck is he on the list? He was a true
patriot.
drf|6.30.05 @ 12:40PM|#
Probably too late, but here goes.
ChicagoTom:
check out today's cato dispatch. it says lots about our
senator...
http://cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3969
gaius marius|6.30.05 @ 1:16PM|#
The whole point of having a car is to go places. In
complaining about how fun is impairing civilization, you seemed to
be one of those people.
actually, mr pundit, if i might contort the analogy a bit more
painfully, on a basic level i think you've misinterpreted what the
car is for. it is for going places, right -- but if you spend all
your time driving the liquor store and the ballgame, and forget to
go to the grocer and the office, you're not going to have the car
for long.
if civility has a point, it is the maximization of survivability in
cohesive discipline. to forget that, and instead abuse the fruits
of civilization to indulge oneself in irresponsibility, is to tempt
barbarity.
keith|6.30.05 @ 1:30PM|#
Isn't the Discovery Channel supposed to be something that is
educational, enlightening, and yet entertaining?
They moved the educational material to the Discovery Times channel
so they could make room for more home imporvement shows or, now
that they sponsor Lance Armstrong, ten thousand hours of Lance
Armstrong-related programming.
As for the greatest American, I haven't even bothered to look at
the list. Did Sitting Bull or Crazy Horse make the cut? What about
Millard Fillmore? Or that guy who got pinned under a felled tree,
sawed his leg off with a pocket knife, then drove a bulldozer to
the nearest hospital?
|6.30.05 @ 2:47PM|#
Jesse Walker,
I thought the 35 heroes of freedom was great, but I always wondered
why William Graham Sumner didn't make the list. He seems like such
a natural for it. Am I missing something? Did he secretly drown
puppies for fun and only I haven't heard about it?
|6.30.05 @ 3:16PM|#
D-FENS,
I do all my clothes shopping at Fredrick's of Eggertsville.
I found the most disgusting apsect of this list in the accompanying
press release. It claimed the list took .."the pulse of the nation"
and that it ..."revealed the qualities we most admire". The
nominees were noted for their ..."importance and incredible
contributions they made to our society".
I have never felt so proud to be an American. They could improve
the list if they replaced the overhyped scientists with more sports
stars and survivors of "Gilligan's Island" and "American Idol". The
Bushites should heed this as a dire warning and initiate a "no pop
star left behind" program before effete intellectuals gain a
foothold.
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