New at Reason

Julian Sanchez | June 1, 2005

Viddy Ron Bailey's slovos about new tech that could let the state into your gulliver.

Comments

|6.1.05 @ 11:06AM|#

Welly, welly well.

|6.1.05 @ 11:15AM|#

Bailey asks if the state has the right to violate the privacy of one's own mind. While the moral answer may be 'no,', the de facto is yes. The state has the right to do whatever the state pleases. And they will.

|6.1.05 @ 11:16AM|#

That should be, "the de facto answer is 'yes.'

I need more coffee.

|6.1.05 @ 11:18AM|#

What a scary time we're moving into. A powerful state with what it thinks is a mandate to control every aspect of our behavior combined with new technologies which will allow it to regulate even our most private thoughts and desires.

Of course, none of this would be sufficient without the apathetic acquiescence of the so-called citizens.

|6.1.05 @ 11:19AM|#

Ok, this may be a stupid question, but this leads me to wonder: Is it possible that "they" could develop a vaccine for practically any activity that stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain?

Would these sorts of social vaccines only work for things like nicotine, heroin, caffeine, pot, etc?

Or would it be possible to develop a "vaccine" for other activities that generate pleasure but are perceived by society to be extremely dangerous? If society were to deem it harmful, could they develop and mandate a drug for, say, base jumping?

|6.1.05 @ 11:26AM|#

Or would it be possible to develop a "vaccine" for other activities that generate pleasure but are perceived by society to be extremely dangerous? If society were to deem it harmful, could they develop and mandate a drug for, say, base jumping?

How about a vaccine for sleeping with Washington hookers? I bet a lot of politicians would oppose getting that vaccine. But they run the risk of morally diminishing our society, and catching a nasty VD on top of that.

|6.1.05 @ 11:28AM|#

Don't worry people, you'll all be alot more stable when the government drugs you. Crime will plummet and your mother won't cry so much during the holidays. Is that really so bad? I mean, what good is freedom if you're passed out in the gutter or eating that second carton of ice cream since your lover left you?

I fully support such measures, and I hope that will be noted by whatever government monkey is currently scanning the internet for potential threats. I'm on your side, Uncle Sammy, you don't need to drug me. I swear.

|6.1.05 @ 11:30AM|#

It's not necessary to develop a specific drug for base-jumping. A general regulation of dopamine could cover almost anything. I believe we can already do that.

|6.1.05 @ 11:32AM|#

Hey, maybe we could bottle all the vaccines as one elixir and call it "Victory Gin". Proceeds could fund the War on Terror.

|6.1.05 @ 11:36AM|#

I mean, what good is freedom if you're passed out in the gutter or eating that second carton of ice cream since your lover left you?

You shut up about that ice cream! Leave it alone!

|6.1.05 @ 11:37AM|#

How about a vaccine for sleeping with Washington hookers? I bet a lot of politicians would oppose getting that vaccine. But they run the risk of morally diminishing our society, and catching a nasty VD on top of that.

Smacky,

A vaccine that took the pleasure out of sex would cover that, with the added bonus that sex then would only be used to procreate. No pleasure= No reason to have premarital/extramarital/homosexual sex. The fundis would love such a drug.

|6.1.05 @ 11:39AM|#

I've got to get down to that Korova milk bar before it's too late.

|6.1.05 @ 11:39AM|#

I'm awaiting the sweet irony that will come when such preventative drugs are wide-spread...
Gov't shill: Drugs are bad.
Citizen: Why?
Gov't shill: Well, mind-altering drugs are unnatural. They do things to the body that were never meant to happen. So we made some other mind-altering drugs to counteract the mind-altering drugs that are unnatural. So our drugs are good.
Citizen: What?

|6.1.05 @ 11:40AM|#

It looks like the techniques Ron mentions here are pretty crude. It's not like they could control specific activities, just reduce violent urges generally.

Of course, as Orange reminds us, we may not like the unintended consequences.

|6.1.05 @ 11:41AM|#

David--
As an added bonus, we'd enjoy the spectacle of fundies encouraging people to have sex, for a change. "We know that sex is no fun anymore, but Uncle Sam needs more cannon fodder. Don't forget this Saturday night--do your duty to the Party."

|6.1.05 @ 11:48AM|#

Look there's really no doubt that this will happen, and it's going to start with mandatory psychological screening of children with free-flowing prescriptions to modify their unruly behavior. Once we have a generation that grew up on government drugs it's all over. Only those who were "normal" enough to pass the screening will go unfettered, and they're not going to rock the boat.

|6.1.05 @ 11:52AM|#

Jennifer,

I doubt it would apply to sinful cohabiting atheists, only the married faithful, but since there's no pleasure anyway who cares? What sucks is that I won't even get any enjoyment out of my violent movies and video games anymore.

|6.1.05 @ 11:53AM|#

So much Burgess, why not a little Huxley? No one seems to have commented on Bailey's point that parents will likely be at the front line of employing many of these technologies. And there is no doubt that private corporations will, without qualm, offer parents the nice, well-adjusted children they've always wanted.

Anon

|6.1.05 @ 12:00PM|#

David,

This is OT, but did I ever tell you that I did get accepted to an IHS seminar after all? I turned the opportunity down, though, because I only got into the lame environment conference and not the one I really, really wanted to go to (the Arts one).

Ok, back to the topic at hand. I don't know why the government would view a person with a drinking problem as problematic to society. I mean, I am single-handedly keeping liquor sales up in certain districts of my area. And I'm supporting local businesses with my purchases. Why would they care if my liver is spotted? If I don't die of liver complications, I'm sure something else will get me that will cost my insurance company just as much. If anything, I would assume lifestyle-induced health problems would save insurance and healthcare companies money, because the burden of treatment would fall more on the patient who caused their own ailment, no?

|6.1.05 @ 12:00PM|#

I agree with Stretch. This will happen. The outrageous number of students being drugged with Ritalin and anti-depressants indicates that it already is happening.
It will start with the children, and expand. Chemical mind-control will become common not in spite of the public's will, but because of it.

|6.1.05 @ 12:04PM|#

For an entertaining SF look at the uberstate attempting to pharmalogically control the emotions of an entire population, Equilibrium does a decent job, complete with Christian Bale showing off his pre-Batman moves.

As for this type of thing in general, it's mildly worrying though always a bit more complicated than the science blurbs leave out. Make no mistake, though, I've sat through enough NIDA and NIAAA panel discussions to know that there are many people working there that believe this type of intervention would be doing god's/secular humanity's will. Then again, I've gotten shit faced and stoned with other members.

But taking it to the next level, shouldn't we be more concerned about a machine with the ability to magnetically beam spirituality into the head of every godless heathen? Time to get out the tin foil hats for real? Then again, the super-religious folks would probably be too shit scared of this thing showing that god is only in our heads, to ever use it.

Once again, science is caught chewing it's own tail.

|6.1.05 @ 12:09PM|#

Smacky,

OT, You might have enjoyed the environmental one anyway, but I'd have probably only gone to the art/film seminar too. Did you use any of my ideas?

|6.1.05 @ 12:26PM|#

Smacky-
I have an idea concerning "what's wrong with drinking" from a government standpoint, but it sounds so paranoid I'm reluctant to post it.

Aw, what the hell. Here goes: I think the government, more and more each year, really, truly hates the idea of people getting pleasure and enjoyment out of life on their own. Think how a college admissions officer reacts upon being told "Bill Gates is the richest man in the world and he's a college dropout." Think how a gung-ho athletic coach reacts when the biggest, strongest kid in school tells him "I don't want to play on a team, I just play for fun."

If this brain-altering stuff really starts to take off, the ultimate goal will be to ensure that NOBODY can have any happiness without getting it through the government. Instead of a Medal of Honor, we'll allow our soldiers to have a few orgasms instead. Won't that be fun? Thank goodness I'll be dead by then.

|6.1.05 @ 12:29PM|#

Wait a second, Jen. I can get free orgasms for killing brown people? My God, what have I been doing with my life!

|6.1.05 @ 12:31PM|#

Exactly. Stretch. Screw that Medal of Honor bullshit.

|6.1.05 @ 12:31PM|#

I'll get myself the anti-anti-cocaine vaccine.

And then the state will have to have the foresight to give me the anti-anti-anti-cocaine vaccine before I get my hands on the anti-anti-anti-anti-cocaine vaccine.

|6.1.05 @ 12:45PM|#

At the risk of having my libertarian decoder ring taken away, I'm going to suggest that we need to take seriously the question of why all of this is bad. It's facile to point out that schemes to chemically regulate behavior figure prominently in a lot of dystopian fiction, but not terribly informative.

If we can trade some degree of autonomy for a society that is safer and happier, we as freedom lovers may have a hard time explaining why we should prefer the less safe, less happy alternative.

|6.1.05 @ 12:49PM|#

Number 6,

Consult Ben Franklin on that and hand over the ring:)

|6.1.05 @ 12:53PM|#

Well, for me Number 6, it's the control issue. I came to libertarianism primarily through being a fierce individualist, so I just bristle at the thought of people telling me how I should live my life. Do I make mistakes? You bet? Do I drink too much, smoke too much, etc? Probably in a lot of people's eyes, but I've made great friends and had some really great times doing it.

But with these 'treatments', it changes from the gov't only being able to tell me what to do, and only enforce it through the threat of incarceration/force, to them actually making me change a large part of me. That's scary, even if it would be 'for my own good'.

That being said, I don't have any problem with these treatments being available.

|6.1.05 @ 12:55PM|#

Number 6-
There's also the fact that the ones deciding what behavior is safe enough to be acceptable will be members of the same government that brought you the swine flu vaccine and told a generation of schoolchildren that putting your arms over your head will enable you to survive nuclear war.

|6.1.05 @ 1:00PM|#

Well, I�m assuming/hoping that those that will be handing out the vaccines will be vaccinated. In that case I�m locking myself in my house and blasting some Ludwig Van to keep them out.

How do you think the religious will feel about this? I mean, what good is God given free will if man just takes it away.

|6.1.05 @ 1:04PM|#

Number6,

Without resorting to distopic fiction, the questions are: How much of person can be medicated away before that person ceases to exist? Who determines which traits are acceptable? When does it stop? In theory, you could medicate people into being able to work continuously in service of society (the state). But are they still alive in any real sense?

|6.1.05 @ 1:14PM|#

You know, if they develop a vaccine for love, that might be something. Helluva marketing coup.

Christ, they could charge and arm and a leg for the stuff and people would still buy it just because of the savings to both one's emotional stability and pocketbook.

"Does love have you thinking irrationally? Spending money you don't have and making irresponsible interpersonal decisions? Then you need Agapaccido. For all of those times when you're googly-eyed and stupid."

|6.1.05 @ 1:16PM|#

The comments above do highlight the issues involved, and I tend to agree with most of them. The problem I'm trying to highlight is that arguments against this sort of thing are necessarily abstract. I have a hard time believing that one can prevail against the soccer moms of America with ontological arguments, when they see the chance to ensure the 'safety' of their offspring. People in general do not think from first principles, but evaluate choices based on the percieved benefit of a given action. If we can reduce violence or prevent little Johnny from becoming a cokehead, then it's reasonable to assume that people will want to do so. Abstruse philosophical arguments will probably get us nowhere.

|6.1.05 @ 1:21PM|#

But aren't those abstruse philosophical arguments a requirement before we go off and start monkeying around with this stuff?

Certainly Susie Soccermom doesn't care, but that doesn't change the fact that someone will have to spoon-feed her a prebuilt conclusion about this particular topic.

After all, no one really wants to put their kid on all sorts of mind-altering substances. At least that's what they say.

|6.1.05 @ 1:26PM|#

Mediageek-The popularity of Ritalin scrips would indicate otherwise.

|6.1.05 @ 1:31PM|#

Based upon my teaching experience, I'd say the majority of American parents would gladly medicate the hell out of their kids if doing so made the parent's life more convenient. Hypothetically speaking, if you offered pregnant women a drug which would lower their child's IQ by twenty points but guarantee that the kid was born toilet-trained, I'd bet at least twenty-five percent would take it.

|6.1.05 @ 1:34PM|#

I was being sarcastic. Everyone is happy to denigrate the use of Ritalin, Adderal or Stratera for Billy's ADD, but that doesn't mean they aren't feeding it to the kid.

Even many of the people that are complicit in this phenomenon are happy to indulge in the typical bias against treating mental disorders with pills.

|6.1.05 @ 1:35PM|#

The $64,000 question becomes, do androids dream of electric sheep?

|6.1.05 @ 1:38PM|#

Pharmaceuticals target various neurotransmitters to prevent drug molecules from producing the pleasurable effects people taking them seek.

Pleasure is a bad thing....right?


OT, You might have enjoyed the environmental one anyway, but I'd have probably only gone to the art/film seminar too. Did you use any of my ideas?

Um, I don't remember that well. I don't think I did, actually, but you did help motivate me to actually write the essays, which is quite something in itself, considering my usual indolence.


...and told a generation of schoolchildren that putting your arms over your head will enable you to survive nuclear war.

Do you mean that doesn't work? Huh.

You know, if they develop a vaccine for love, that might be something.

There are many already: I find that money and politics work well myself.

|6.1.05 @ 2:03PM|#

You know who would love an anti-violence vaccine? Dictators. Slip that bad boy into the water supply and ain't nobody going to overthrow your corrupt regime. It's far more powerful to have a monopoly on the will to fight than it is to have a monopoly on the weapons for fighting.

|6.1.05 @ 2:40PM|#

Actually, Mo, I was just wondering what effect an anti-violence vaccine would have on our military. It wuld be pretty damn funny if we were successfully invaded and conquered by some pissant country like Mozambique because our populace was too mellow to fight back.

Does Mozambique even exist anymore? I'm too lazy to look it up.

|6.1.05 @ 2:46PM|#

How many "bad habit" vaccines are we gonna need? Probably several thousand.

Man, there's suckers giving birth every minute. If you really cared, you'd skip the vaccines and go stright to the sterilization programs.

|6.1.05 @ 3:01PM|#

Of course, Jennifer, if libertarians and assorted paranoid anti-government types are the only ones that take a pass on this, it would be a piece of cake to create libertopia. We could call it the Tin Foil Revolution.

|6.1.05 @ 3:01PM|#

Remember the good old days when "liberty" and "the pursuit of happiness" weree considered just as important as "life?"

I don't, but I read about it somewhere in a history book.

|6.1.05 @ 3:17PM|#

I'm especially suspicious of people trying to 'perfect' the human mind because of my own warped childhood--my mother was the type of person who would rather be crowned Miss Universe than win the Nobel Prize for Literature, and it drove her crazy that I was exactly the opposite. So when I was in sixth grade she actually dragged me to a therapist to 'fix' me. Her two main complaints? "She's smart and she's pretty but she's not in the 'in' crowd!" and "She reads the same books over and over again! It's sick, reading a book when you already know how it's going to end!" (This from a woman whose favorite show was "The Love Boat." I wonder how this episode will end? Could it be possible that the two characters played by has-been Z-list celebrities will actually find love? The suspense is killing me.)

And yeah, by the standards of my little corner of the South I suppose I wasn't normal; I once turned down a party invitation from the Most Popular Boy in School because I thought he was a jerk. In college a few years later I even turned down an invitation to join some sorority. But SO FUCKING WHAT?!? I'd like to share one of my favorite quotes from Voltaire, in the essay 'Story of a Good Brahman:'

"I have told myself a thousand times that I would be happy if only I were as stupid as my neighbors, yet I would want no part of such a happiness."

I'd rather be Endora than Samantha. So sue me.

|6.1.05 @ 3:22PM|#

Without life, you can't have liberty or pursue happiness.

|6.1.05 @ 3:23PM|#

Without liberty and the pursuit of happiness, what's the point of life?

|6.1.05 @ 3:26PM|#

And I'd rather be Barney Gumble than Ned Flanders. To echo Jennifer, "so sue me".

|6.1.05 @ 3:53PM|#

SUMMONS TO APPEAR FOR JENNIFER AND SMACKY

Dear Ms. Jennifer and Ms. Smacky,

You are being sued by the Soccer Moms of America for conduct detrimental to, and failure to think of, the children. Your may settle by agreeing to the following terms:

1. Chemical alterations to free yourselves of your respective vices and tendencies.
2. Regular attendance of both church and AA/NA.
3. You will both be wedded, and begin producing children of your own.

Failure to comply will result in your asses in court.

|6.1.05 @ 4:08PM|#

What's the line from Mill? "Better Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied," or something along those lines.

|6.1.05 @ 4:45PM|#

What about those of us who believe that drugs are the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems?

|6.1.05 @ 4:45PM|#

Smacky--
The real question is, would you rather FUCK Barney Gumble or Ned Flanders? Converting to lesbianism is not an option.

|6.1.05 @ 4:46PM|#

Eeew. Now my head is filled with icky thoughts. How can I explain to my boyfriend that I'm never having sex again?

|6.1.05 @ 4:57PM|#

Tell him that you took a pleasure elimination pill and don't see the point to it anymore.

|6.1.05 @ 5:00PM|#

David-
But then I might have to start doing my own damn laundry.

|6.1.05 @ 5:59PM|#

"What's the line from Mill? 'Better Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied,' or something along those lines."

I don't know. I don't read authors whom the Human Events politburo has labeled "evil". :-D

|6.1.05 @ 6:00PM|#

Of course, Jennifer, if libertarians and assorted paranoid anti-government types are the only ones that take a pass on this, it would be a piece of cake to create libertopia. We could call it the Tin Foil Revolution.

A History of the Rise and Fall of the Property Owner's Republic of Libertopia

Copyright 2155, Encyclopedia Solar Systemica
(This Copyright will expire in 2755, as per the provisions of the Disney Act of 2093.)

The rise of the short-lived Property Owner's Republic of Libertopia is generally regarded as one of the most ironic unintended consequences of modern human history. In the early decades of the 21st century, scientists developed vaccines that could eliminate the urge for violence. Initially these vaccines were used only on suburban public school children at the behest of parents. Within 5 years of receiving FDA approval, however, the vaccine became mandatory for all US citizens. Military personnel and law enforcement received exemptions. Large numbers of soldiers were needed to subdue the non-white neighborhoods that rioted in response to the Vaccine Act, which specified that areas with high crime rates (de facto, inner city areas) must be vaccinated first. Interestingly, the Vaccine Act did not receive the votes to overcome a filibuster until this provision was inserted by Senator Robert Byrd (who was then in his 70th year in the Senate, having undergone life extension therapies developed by scientists at the Robert Byrd Center for Molecular Medicine in West Virginia).

Ten years after implementation of the Vaccine Act, a disturbing trend emerged. The military and law enforcement agencies encountered difficulties in recruiting new personnel. Laboratories were tasked with developing drugs to reverse the vaccine, so that the ranks of the military and law enforcement agencies might be replenished, but shadowy domestic groups bombed these laboratories. Rumors said that renegade scientists aided in the bombings, and a mysterious physicist known only as "T" was on the FBI's most wanted list until the FBI ran short of personnel and disbanded.

In 2041, an underground of individuals who had not taken the vaccine launched a coup and seized control of the United States. The coup was almost entirely bloodless, as the government could not find enough citizens willing to take up arms. The leaders of the movement called themselves Libertarians.

On July 4, 2041, the New Libertarian Constitution was signed, proclaiming that the United States would hereafter be known as The Property Owners' Republic of Libertopia. All taxation was abolished, as well as drug laws, economic regulations, and redistribution programs.

On July 31, 2041, the first cracks appeared in the NLC government. The new Congress could not convene, as various factions refused to even speak to anybody who disagreed over fine points of philosophy. On August 5, 2041, the President was assassinated after a dispute broke out over private ownership of nuclear weapons.

The Property Owners' Republic of Libertopia quickly dissolved and the various factions settled into guerrilla warfare against each other. The American public lived in a state of remarkably amicable anarchy until European Union forces, in collaboration with the Canadians, seized most of the US and restored order. The Southwest was ceded to Mexico after MEChA sleeper cells launched a Reconquista (their first act was to capture, try, and execute a subversive known as Lonewacko), and by 2042 most of North America was a contented satellite state of the European Union. Interestingly, the European Union refused to repeal the Vaccine Act, but made it applicable only in North America.

|6.1.05 @ 6:16PM|#

thoreau,

Thanks, that was some funny shit. You should drop out of school and become a writer for Conan O'Brien.

My co-worker are looking at me now, after my outbursts of laughter.

|6.1.05 @ 6:23PM|#

Drop out now? I defend my dissertation on Friday!

And we libertarians know the meaning of the word "defend." Ain't nobody messing with my dissertation! Gonna git me an angry old dog and a nice big gun, and I'll flash a mean look at anybody who comes near the dissertation!

|6.1.05 @ 6:37PM|#

Christ, Thoreau, that was brilliant.

|6.1.05 @ 7:45PM|#

Good luck in your defense thoreau. And yes that was brilliant. When does Reason hire you on staff. You could work with Ron on the science beat.

|6.1.05 @ 7:48PM|#

Because then throreau would have to reveal his true identity.

Great work, thoreau. Good thing I have my own office.

|6.1.05 @ 7:51PM|#

If everything is genetic it sort of undermines the entire concept of objectivistlibertarianclassical liberal thought.

TWC|6.1.05 @ 7:55PM|#

Thow-row

Lone Whacko executed by Azatlan crazies. LOL.

Great stuff.

|6.1.05 @ 7:58PM|#

Thoreau, great stuff. Hadn't seen it before I posted the above note.

|6.1.05 @ 7:58PM|#

I should have said that the invading EU forces were led by a French Marine: General Jean Bart.

Anybody pick up on the mysterious physicist known only as T? ;->

|6.1.05 @ 8:02PM|#

All you damn condescending scientists!

Of course I picked up on the mysterious physicist known only as T!

You're almost as bad as activist judges!

:)

|6.1.05 @ 8:03PM|#

thoreau,
Of course we did. I'm actually surprised the EU invading force commander was an addendum. I'm sure he was made governor of Alabama or New Hampshire or wherever he claims to live.

|6.1.05 @ 8:07PM|#

No. Who was "T"?

If it's real easy than I did get it.

|6.1.05 @ 8:15PM|#

Mo-

General Jean Bart returned to France to retire. But his identical twin Gary Gunnels was made governor of Vermont. And Gary's lover Jason Bourne was governor of Alabama.

|6.1.05 @ 8:16PM|#

Excellent little bit of science fiction, "T"!

Tuckerisms and all.

|6.1.05 @ 8:18PM|#

The real question is, would you rather FUCK Barney Gumble or Ned Flanders?

I betcha that deep down, Ned Flanders is kinkier than a garden hose in November.

|6.1.05 @ 8:21PM|#

The FBI never did catch T. They repeatedly questioned one of his colleagues, a professor of theoretical physics at a private east coast university. The colleague had been a leader in seeking private funding for university research, and while his department still received federal funds, it led the country in percentage of funding from private sources. His colleague claimed to have lost touch with T shortly after graduate school, and had an airtight alibi for the night when the laboratory for the vaccine antidote was bombed.

Interestingly, when EU forces invaded, this physicist apparently traveled to DC to photograph General Jean Bart and Governor Gary Gunnels. He was eager to determine whether they were the same person.

|6.1.05 @ 8:55PM|#

That's it, Thoreau: you are officially my hero.

|6.1.05 @ 9:23PM|#

I'd heard that "T" was killed by the Merovingian in a dispute regarding whether lawyers should be executed in th new order.

|6.1.05 @ 10:50PM|#

thoreau,

[acknowledge, acknowledge] (I can't pay any unique compliments to your bit that haven't been given already).

I betcha that deep down, Ned Flanders is kinkier than a garden hose in November.

You know it, Stevo! It's gotta be. That's probably what makes Bible-beater Christians like him so uncomfortable with open sexuality. It must be tough to try and contain an overflowing kettle of raw sexual misadventure every day.

|6.1.05 @ 10:51PM|#

Viddy I'd like to give 'em some of the ol' in-out in-out myself.

|6.2.05 @ 1:24AM|#

Excellent, thoreau.

|6.2.05 @ 8:49AM|#

Interestingly, when EU forces invaded, this physicist apparently traveled to DC to photograph General Jean Bart and Governor Gary Gunnels. He was eager to determine whether they were the same person.

What they didn't travel to Gettysburg to hold their first historic meeting at Little Round Top?

Great stuff, thoreau.

And good luck tomorrow. If your dissertation's as good as some of your comments here you'll have that committee eating out of your hand.

|6.2.05 @ 12:41PM|#

Isaac-

Good point! General Jean Bart formally handed authority over to Governor General Gary Gunnels at Little Round Top.

T, interestingly enough, attempted to rescue Lonewacko from the clutches of MEChA terrorists. Although he had clashed with Lonewacko in underground message boards, T thought it was pretty fucked up that somebody might actually want to kill the guy. However, T was delayed in his quest by evil mastermind Ben Stein, a member of the cult of the late Dark Lord Nixon.

|6.2.05 @ 1:13PM|#

Jennifer never made it into the history books because she spent the whole time getting stoned and posting on Hit and Run. If only she had Just Said No.

|6.2.05 @ 1:44PM|#

Jennifer, who do you think educated all the children whose parents took them underground to deny them the vaccine?

|6.2.05 @ 1:55PM|#

Thoreau-
Ha! If all I did during the great libertoid war was teach children how to decode the symbolism in Shakespeare, then I'm GLAD history forgot me.

|6.2.05 @ 1:59PM|#

No, you taught the children how to think for themselves. That was the whole purpose of the Great Libertoid War.

Too bad that the victors forgot your lessons and fell into dogmatic factionalism.

|6.2.05 @ 2:54PM|#

It must be tough to try and contain an overflowing kettle of raw sexual misadventure every day.

Yes it is!

Thoreau -- good luck on your dissertation, amigo.