New at Reason

Julian Sanchez | April 4, 2005

Courtesy of Jeremy Lott, Reason looks at JP2: Beneath the Hat.

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|4.4.05 @ 12:32PM|#

I like the Pope. The Pope smokes dope.

|4.4.05 @ 12:39PM|#

I'm going to post this in an attempt to inject levity before we get another 300+ posts on how awful religion is:

I suggest that the new Pope be chosen via a reality show: Roman Idol!

12 Cardinals have been invited to Rome to compete for the job of Pope. They will form 2 teams and compete on various tasks. After each task, the losing team will go to the Confessional, where one of them will be given the ultimate penance and be sent home. The person in charge of this will be Sister Anita, the very strict Principal of my old Catholic grade school.

Sister Anita: Cardinals, the Pope is the leader of the world's largest religious denomination. But being the biggest means that you face even more pressure to keep your numbers up. Your task this week will be to design an outreach program and win converts. But you won't be converting Protestants, or even people from other religions. You're job will be to convert atheists.

Nigerian Cardinal: I was project manager for Team Sacrament, because I'm used to leading the church in a tough and diverse environment. We decided that the best way to convert atheists was to go to a place where we could find the greatest number of atheists. So we went to a conference on evolutionary biology.

Chinese Cardinal: I felt that I was perfect for this task. China has been officially atheist for 50 years, so I was made project manager for Team Salvation. When I learned that Team Sacrament was going for scientists I knew we'd win. Scientists are atheists by choice, while Chinese people are atheists because many of them have never encountered an alternative.

Sister Anita: Nigerian Cardinal, you should have realized that scientists would be tough to convert. Go say 12 Hail Mary's and return to your home diocese.

Next week on Roman Idol: The teams are given their toughest task yet--Identify and fire pedophile priests. But the task gets personal when Team Salvation is forced to eliminate one of their own!

And later in the season: The teams have to design an abstinence campaign. Whichever team gets the greatest number of Catholic schoolgirls to sign abstinence pledges will win. But will Team Sacrament crack under the pressure? Token Gay Cardinal (requisite on any reality show): "We knew that abstinence would be a tough sell. I mean, Mary was a virgin and she still got pregnant!"

And later...

Uptight Cardinal: We knew that there would be black smoke coming from the Confessional until somebody was fired, at which point there would be white smoke. But we weren't prepared for the smoke that came out of the Confessional when the Cardinal of Jamaica was in there.

|4.4.05 @ 12:40PM|#

The Pope doesn't smoke dope. The Cardinals smoke dope to figure out who will be the next Pope. When you see the smoke drift out of the top of St. Peter's Basillica, then you know they've elected a new High & Mighty.

|4.4.05 @ 1:07PM|#

Don�t shoot the Pope, cause he�ll shoot back,
The Pope, The Pope,
The Pope is Packed!
- Rats of Unusual Size

Warren|4.4.05 @ 1:08PM|#

thoreau,
I like it.

|4.4.05 @ 1:19PM|#

Thoreau,

That rules!

|4.4.05 @ 2:13PM|#

At the risk of starting off those 300+ posts mentioned above, has anyone at Reason written a review of "Memory and Identity" or tackled the issue of JP II's characterization in that book of the Enlightenment as being the root of modern evil?

|4.4.05 @ 2:19PM|#

How many divisions does the Pope have?

Jeremy Lott|4.4.05 @ 2:31PM|#

Dave Potts,

I read Memory and Identity as part of the preparation to write this article. JPII viewed aspects of the various Enlightenments as being bad but my sense was that he didn't view these as "THE root of modern evil" -- "A" root maybe, but he saw them as a mixed bag.

Best, Jeremy Lott

|4.4.05 @ 3:15PM|#

How many multiples does the Pope have?

|4.4.05 @ 4:02PM|#

...arrogant ideologies...

As opposed to the arrogant ideology of Christianty and its bloody historical record?

The Catholic Church would still preserve its doctrines but it would no longer seek to use the state to enforce orthodoxy.

Except in the matter of homosexuality, the right to die, religious freedom, etc.

In the '70s the Catholic Church in the U.S. and the rest of the western world experienced a massive fall-off in the percentage of Catholics who attended weekly Mass.

Sounds like something to be happy about.

At the same time, tens of thousands of priests decided to hang up their collars and a huge number of nuns decided to call it quits.

I can't complain about that.

They have a point, but then the episode goes to show why this pope, until the very end, remained the thundering moral voice of the Church.

Then why is Cardinal Law enjoying his retirement years in the Vatican? Its not because JPII was a "moral voice," its because JPII and the Vatican wanted to hide their dirty laudry!

|4.4.05 @ 4:05PM|#

DavePotts,

Of course the Pope would despise the Enlightenment. Its human-centered and praises humanity, unlike Christianity. There's a reason why priests get on their stomaches and act like vermin when they are ordained after all.

|4.4.05 @ 4:07PM|#

Well, one good thing happened from the Pope croaking; Charles and Camilla have delayed their marriage, so we won't have to be overloaded with that crap for a while.

|4.4.05 @ 4:45PM|#

I'm guessing you guys haven't read the chapter of that book entitled "The Positive Fruits of the Enlightenment".

|4.4.05 @ 5:00PM|#

phocion,

Then do enlighten us.

|4.4.05 @ 5:07PM|#

gary how did i know that you were the author before i finished reading your first post? you never fail to offend. not me of course, i dig the church bashing, but you sure do know how to raise enough trouble to spark another 300 posts. bravo

|4.4.05 @ 6:07PM|#

Just a thought. What d'ya bet one of the first reforms the new Pope comes up with is a procedure to remove an incapacitated Pope? Maybe even a mandatory retirement age.

|4.4.05 @ 6:11PM|#

Isaac-

Actually, his first effort will be a way to reform pensions for retired priests. But when that doesn't get past the College of Cardinals he'll settle for reiterating the long-standing Catholic ban on gay marriage.

Thank-you, don't forget to tip your waitress!

|4.4.05 @ 7:50PM|#

Gary Gunnels,

Has Cardinal Law been indicted yet? If not, then how is the pope harboring him? I mean, it's not the same situation as with Roman Polanski; as far as I know, Cardinal Law is not at risk of being extradited if he sets foot in a treaty country.

Really now, your vitriolic vitriol against Catholics is rising to new levels. ;-)

|4.4.05 @ 7:54PM|#

grimethink,

You're putting the cart before the horse again, you theist scum. Prosecutors are loathe to bring an indictment that will anger the Vatican hierarchy, precisely to avoid upsetting the medieval sensibilities of simpletons like yourself. :)

|4.4.05 @ 7:55PM|#

And at any rate you have yet to prove that Cardinal Law shouldn't be indicted.

|4.4.05 @ 7:56PM|#

|4.4.05 @ 8:00PM|#

And at any rate you have yet to prove that Cardinal Law shouldn't be indicted.

I never said he shouldn't be indicted. I was merely saying that since he hasn't been, how can it be wrong for the Vatican to let him live there? Would it be wrong for me to let a foreigner live at my house, just because some people in his native land think he should go to jail?

|4.4.05 @ 8:06PM|#

grimethink,

Yet another inapposite analogy. Read a fucking logic textbook you moron. If his government wanted him to stand trial, the US (I'm assuming you're in the US, though a statist like you might feel more at home in Saudi Arabia) would send him back. Not going to happen with the pope, since he has his own little postage stamp state.

|4.4.05 @ 9:10PM|#

What d'ya bet one of the first reforms the new Pope comes up with is a procedure to remove an incapacitated Pope?

Why? I just don't get why this issue keeps coming up in the media. Is there some pressing work that isn't getting done when the Pope is incapacitated? Are they worried that they might find a new bible verse that needs immediate attention? I mean, I can understand the need for an incapacitation provision for the president due to national security reasons, but what does the RCC have to worry about? Muslims storming St. Peter's Basilica? "Dog" Chapman raiding the Vatican to nab Cardinal Law for his A&E Show? As long as they can prop the Pope up on his throne or wheel him in front of a window now and then to wave to the crowd, I just don't see the urgency of this problem, nor why we keep hearing about it.

|4.4.05 @ 9:28PM|#

Gary, I'm not sure about this whole Bhutan thing. Assuming you had just moved there from your native Alabama in 1981, and you weren't under 18 at the time, that means you're at least 42 now. And you're still in law school?!

|4.4.05 @ 10:10PM|#

grimethink,

The RCC granted that scumbag a sinecure when they should have tossed his out onto the street.

crimethink,

I was well under the age of eighteen in 1981. Indeed, I was still in grade school at the time. :)

|4.4.05 @ 10:11PM|#

What's interesting is the Vatican's unwillingness to release Church records concerning the details of their dealings with Nazi Germany.

|4.4.05 @ 11:08PM|#

Some people defy parody...

|4.4.05 @ 11:48PM|#

"I never said he shouldn't be indicted. I was merely saying that since he hasn't been, how can it be wrong for the Vatican to let him live there? Would it be wrong for me to let a foreigner live at my house, just because some people in his native land think he should go to jail?"

What the fuck are you trying to pull with all this double-talk, you sub-moronic goatfucker? Why don't you use at least one of your two neurons to try and acknowledge the truth, instead of emitting your drivel all over the Internet? Your claims about Cardinal Law contradict numerous other things you said at various times, and if necessary I will illustrate that fact by numerous quotations from previous posts you made on this and other threads.

You can just make it easier on yourself by acknowledging your error and renouncing your hateful, superstitious idiocies, or would that be too difficult for you, you Homo Non-Erectus?

Coelocanth! Blatherskite! Sacajawea!

:)

|4.4.05 @ 11:51PM|#

At this point, I would like to remind everyone on this thread that the Roman Catholic Church is responsible for the Inquisition, the witch-hunts, the Crusades, the burning of Giordano Bruno, and the cancellation of *Twin Peaks.* I literally don't believe that the crimes of the Catholic Church can be overemphasized. If I thought it was possible to overemphasize these crimes, I would have stopped at the fifth or sixth repetition, but as you see I will continue to mention them on the off chance that someone may have forgotten them.

:)

|4.4.05 @ 11:57PM|#

"Some people defy parody..."

What's the matter, you inbred Gomer Pyle, can't you take honest criticism, or would you prefer to remain nicely nestled in your trailer park home, closing yourself off to any information except for the religious indoctrination you get on the radio via Brother Billy Bob of the Pentecostal Evangelist Sister-Humping Church of the Evangelist?

You putrid, filthy, toffee-nosed smarmy git, your type makes me puke! Your mother would disown you, but right now her mouth is too full for her to talk, because she's blowing me!

:)

|4.5.05 @ 12:08AM|#

Mary Muggles,

You're funny. :)

Of course its not merely the RCC that I criticize. :)

|4.5.05 @ 12:16AM|#

Let me emphasize that I am not in any way, shape or form related to Mary Muggles.

|4.5.05 @ 12:17AM|#

. . . and it's just a coincidence that we're both 5'8"

|4.5.05 @ 12:18AM|#

. . . we both took First Prize at the Munich Beer Drinking Contest in 1998,

|4.5.05 @ 12:19AM|#

. . . we both have a dog named Fido . . .

|4.5.05 @ 12:20AM|#

and we occasionally share a computer, and a bed.

|4.5.05 @ 12:21AM|#

Plus, we both have a palm tree tatooed on our penises.

But we're totally different people!

|4.5.05 @ 12:23AM|#

Mary Muggles,

I applaud your clever wit. :)

|4.5.05 @ 12:35AM|#

And, by the way, despite the fact that some fools claim I have a so-called obsession with a certain subject, you will notice that I just made several posts without once mentioning a certain international religious institution that was responsible for THE HORRIFIC AND BLOODY CRUSADES, and I have not so much as mentioned that certain institution's penchant for BURNING WOMEN FOR WITCHCRAFT, and I have passed over in silence that same institution's COMPLETE HOSTILITY TO FREE THOUGHT, which I think shows that I don't in any way, shape or form have a bee in my bonnet towards that certain institution and its PEDOPHILE PRIESTS, ANTI-SEMITIC HISTORY, COLLABORATION WITH ADOLF HITLER, OPPRESSION OF WOMEN, and general EVILNESS.

|4.5.05 @ 12:49AM|#

Just to nip the rumor in the bud: I am *not* Gary Gunnels posting under another name just to prove that I can laugh at myself.

|4.5.05 @ 1:20AM|#

For the record, I have not uncovered any evidence that would lead me to believe that Mary Muggles and Croesus are the same person.

I am *not* Gary Gunnels posting under another name just to prove that I can laugh at myself.

Nor have I uncovered any evidence that would lead me to believe that Gary is capable of comprehending his own errors, let alone laugh at them.

|4.5.05 @ 1:24AM|#

For the record, I have not uncovered any evidence that would lead me to believe that Mary Muggles and Croesus are the same person.

*Chuckle* You haven't even uncovered any evidence suggesting that Jean Bart and I are the same person, let alone evidence that Gary and I are the same person.

You are obviously a fucking moron who routinely contradicts himself. You need to go read a few shelves' worth of books before you have the right to even post on the same forum as me, let alone engage me in a debate, you theo-fascist prick.

Now, if you'll excuse me, my gay lover and I are busy studying for the bar exam in Vermont.

|4.5.05 @ 2:04AM|#

thoreau,

Well, you've got to find some errors first. :)

|4.5.05 @ 2:06AM|#

Croesus,

Well, I admit that a little reading on thoreau's part would do him some good. :)

|4.5.05 @ 2:13AM|#

No doubt, Gary. That Ph.D he's supposedly working on is hardly impressive, even if it is real.

Wait? Why am I talking to you? I am you!

I talk to myself when there is no one to talk to...

|4.5.05 @ 6:23AM|#

croesus,

I'm working on a J.D., not a PhD. :)

|4.5.05 @ 9:31AM|#

Mary Muggles / Croesus,

What's funny is that he seems to have taken grimethink seriously, and remains oblivious to Scary Snuggles...

As I said, some people are impossible to parody, since they are parodies.

|4.5.05 @ 9:37AM|#

This comment thread is blowing my mind!

|4.5.05 @ 9:59AM|#

the parodist/muggles/scruggles,

Well, it wouldn't matter how I responded to them, you'd have some complaint. But hey, I enjoy all the attention nonetheless. :)

|4.5.05 @ 1:42PM|#

I'm working on a J.D., not a PhD

*chuckle* Obviously I was referring to thoreau's Ph.D. Don't come back until you've learned how to read.

Wait? Why am I insulting you? I am you!

"I talk to myself when there is no one to talk to..."