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|12.28.04 @ 2:44PM|#
I've said "happy holidays" for years, not out of political correctness, but from the understanding that not everyone celebrates Christmas, or is for that matter (gasp!) a Christian. Political correctness? No, common decency. Oh, but our neocon friends seem to have a bit of trouble distinguishing the two, don't they, heh heh heh...
|12.28.04 @ 3:04PM|#
Quaint perhaps, but it could be considered good manners not to presume that everyone you meet accepts Our Lord. They're going to hell anyway, so why sweat it?
Also, I said it before but I thought the idea was "Happy Holidays" covers the two months from Thanksgiving to New Years?
Are we going to be treated to carping and passive-agressive "Merry Christmasing" from rightwingers every freaking Christmas from now on? Will "Merry Chirstmas" itself become a nasty codeword like "family values" or "fair and balanced"? I suppose those are rhetorical questions.
|12.28.04 @ 3:15PM|#
May I suggest "Merry Jesus H. Fucking Christmas"? Clearly it references Our Beloved Savior, while at the same time somehow clearly distancing itself from the current conservative mania to transform the bare "Merry Christmas" into some sort of thuggish proselytizing.
Warren|12.28.04 @ 3:16PM|#
"Merry Chirstmas" is the fundies new battle cry. Because the irony of "onward Christian soldiers" had become lost.
drf|12.28.04 @ 3:16PM|#
henry,
sounds good except for the "fucking" part. after all, there was no actual "fucking" to cause christmas to happen. i swear. all they did was talk!!! just talk!!!
|12.28.04 @ 3:40PM|#
"after all, there was no actual "fucking" to cause christmas to happen"
Oh, I see--another religious k00k in our midst!
|12.28.04 @ 4:54PM|#
It's like the fable of the spittoon and the cigarette. The spittoon disappeared voluntarily as the culture changed whereas cigs are being crushed by force.
America's Christmas culture evolved voluntarily over the last 300 years and continues to evolve. But as with cigs, the anointed classes today are using blunt force trauma to accomplish their ends, which is to secularize something that has already long been secularized and to homogenize the season into something it is not. For gawd's sakes people at least half of the pop Christmas music we love was written by Jews.
A second flaw I see is that we need to be able to differentiate between a small minority of religious/christians who do and say foolish things and the vast majority of the rest of us that simply celebrate Christmas and have grown tired of the nit picky bullshit revolving around how WE choose to celebrate the holiday. Most of us aren't fundies, nor do we attend church or claim to be of any particular religious persuasion. But we do recognize the reality that Christmas celebrations are tied to the religious story of the birth of Christ. If you want to argue that point, go for it, but it doesn't matter what obscure and interesting sidebars that you might come up with to prove differently, the REALITY is that in this culture it is called Christmas because of the Birth of Christ and it doesn't matter a fig that sometime over a millennia ago they changed the date of the celebration from early January to December 25 to hook up with an existing pagan holiday (except for the Armenians that is). Tell that story to most of the 80% of Americans that celebrate Christmas and they'll hand you a quarter and ask you to call someone who gives a shit.
It most certainly is not even-handed silliness that Cathy takes great pains to describe. It is a backlash against the lefties and the politically correct and their notions of how things ought to be done. The backlash is fired up by regular people who are in no way interested in oppressing anyone. It is the vast secularized middle class and not Church of Christ Deacons, Calvary Chapel devotees, or those who hang at Rev Schuller's Monument to Himself that are rebelling against this crap. That seems pretty plain to me. Then again maybe it's just anecdotal evidence collected from my interaction with scores and scores of just plain folks on my travels through this life.
|12.28.04 @ 5:28PM|#
"I've said "happy holidays" for years, not out of political correctness, but from the understanding that not everyone celebrates Christmas, or is for that matter (gasp!) a Christian"
Ahhhh, but to the Right, you are being politically correct. To the X-ian conservative, Christmas is the only thing that matters and to Hell (literally) with all the heathens/pagans/Jews/etc. that have celebrations (or not) at same time. To say Happy Holidays is to admit that there are other faiths and holidays other than Christianity, and to the fundies that will not do at all.
|12.28.04 @ 5:52PM|#
I also generally say, "Happy holidays" to everyone this time of year, both to include the upcoming New Year, and because I'm to lazy to find out whether everyone I'm talking to is celebrating Christmas or Hanukkah or Kwanzaa or nothing in particular. It's both practical as well as polite.
Lately there reportedly is a change of emphasis, a pointed avoidance to mentioning Christmas, and that is what causing some Christians to get their backs up. According to a first-person anecdotal account from syndicated columnist Mark Steyn, a postal employee was instructed to say only "Happy holidays" and not "Merry Christmas" to a customer -- even if the customer said "Merry Christmas" to the employee first. This sounds more like an attempt to avoid Christmas than to avoid offense.
On the other side, last week I was in line at the grocery store, and the checker told a customer, "Happy holidays!" and the customer responded with a certain emphasis, in the tone of correcting a child who misspoke, "Merry Christmas" -- and that struck me as somehow rather jerky and needlessly pointed on the customer's part.
I suspect anti-religion is like racism -- it's around, but you're going to "encounter" a lot more if you put a chip on your shoulder and go out of your way to look for it.
|12.28.04 @ 7:43PM|#
Using the term Happy Holidays is a time honored tradition in the business world and has existed for many many decades. It's origination was a voluntary recognition that others might not be celebrating Christmas. It enjoyed widespread usage predating all of the modern efforts to get Christmas out of the Christmas Season.
|12.28.04 @ 7:46PM|#
Check out the U.S. Postal Service Web site: two different stamps for Kwanzaa. One for Eid, two for Hanukkah. Two for non-sectarian "Holiday," with pictures of Santa, reindeer, ornaments, that sort of thing. One for the Chinese New Year. One for those religiously inclined -- it features a Madonna and Child. But the Web site calls it "Holiday Traditional." The word "Christmas" doesn't appear on the site's description of the stamps. Eid, yes. Hanukkah, yes. Kwanzaa, yes. Christmas? No. It's Holiday Traditional.
|12.28.04 @ 8:00PM|#
I say "Merry Fucking Christmas"
I heard there is no Christmas,
In the silly Middle East..
No Trees, no Snow, no Santa Claus,
They have Different Religious beliefs..
They Believe in Muhammad,
And not in our Holiday..
And so every December,
I go to the Middle East and say..
Hey there Mr Muslim, Merry Fucking Christmas
Put down that book 'The Koran'
and hear some holiday wishes
In case you haven't noticed,
it's Jesus's Birthday
So get off you heathen Muslim Ass
And fucking celebrate.
There is no holiday season in India,
I've heard..
They don't hang up their stockings,
and that is just absurd..
They've never read a Christmas Story,
They Don't know what Rudolph is about..
And that's why in December,
I'll go to india and shout..
Hey there Mr Hinduist, Merry Fucking Christmas
Dring some 'nog, and eat some Beef
and pass it to the Missus
Incase you haven't noticed,
It's Jesus's Birthday
So get off your heathen hindu ass,
And fucking celebrate.
Now I heard that in Japan,
Everyone just lives in sin..
They pray to several gods,
And put needles in their skin..
On December twenty-fifth,
all they do is eat a cake..
and that is why i'll go to Japan,
and walk around and say..
Hey there Mr Shintoist, Merry Fucking Christmas
God is gonna kick your ass You infidelic pagan scum.
Incase you haven't noticed,
There's festive things to do
So lets all rejoice for Jesus
and Merry Fucking Christmas to you.
On Christmas Day, I travel round the world and say..
Taoists, Korishnas, Buddists
and all you atheists too..
Merry Fucking Christmas to you.
(From SouthPark)
|12.28.04 @ 8:00PM|#
Christmas is a pagan celebration, so no one is taking the Christ out Christmas.
http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm
Boxing Day, however, would be purely Christian.
drf|12.28.04 @ 8:48PM|#
awesome, dave. we put that on our x-mas compliations to others last year and this year, too. a big hit!
|12.28.04 @ 9:03PM|#
x-mas compilations? jesus would be proud.
yeah that "we're so persecuted" shit was insane for the last couple of weeks.
|12.28.04 @ 9:03PM|#
I like the article.
And to all those on either side of the battle who get upset, I say that most Americans find a way to have a good time on or around December 25, and that seems good enough to me. Whether it's Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Festivus, Solstice, or whatever, most people celebrate at least one festival (if not more) and have a good time.
That seems good enough to me. I don't get upset by those who say "Happy Holidays" and I hope that nobody gets upset if I say "Merry Christmas." And if somebody does get upset, well, I'm usually so busy with my family's December dramas that I simply don't even notice when non-relatives get upset. If you want me to notice your self-righteous anger, you'll have to take a number and get in a very long line.
|12.28.04 @ 9:09PM|#
Oh, and I'd like to thank Bill O'Reilly for bravely defending Christmas from hordes of Macy's clerks. Without his diligent efforts I have no doubt that the Grinch would have succeeded in his evil schemes ;->
|12.28.04 @ 9:51PM|#
"May I suggest "Merry Jesus H. Fucking Christmas"?"
And what might the 'H' stand for, Henry?
|12.28.04 @ 10:37PM|#
It's not the "Merry Christmas" that bugs this atheist. When ever someone says that(or any other saying that has a religious context) I accept in the spirit that its given. However, the indignation that anyone should be inclusive . Sorry O'Reilly and "Dr." May (what diploma mill did he get that Ph.D from?), but Christians don't have a monopoly on the season. December 25 has grown to become something more than the commemoration the birth of your alleged Messiah. You have every right to say Merry Christmas to you and yours, but having a cow because someone might prefer a "Happy Holidays" shows that you and your followers are either fanatics, or arrogant jerks. (Is there really a difference?)
|12.28.04 @ 10:41PM|#
It's not the "Merry Christmas" that bugs this atheist. When ever someone says that(or any other saying that has a religious context) I accept in the spirit that its given. However, the indignation shown by conservatives when someone suggests a little inclusions that festers into "the-secularists-are-destroying-christmas" paranoia is what makes my blood boil.
Sorry O'Reilly and "Dr." May (what diploma mill did he get that Ph.D from?), but Christians don't have a monopoly on the season, and it wouldn't kill you to say "Happy Holidays." December 25 has grown to become something more than the commemoration the birth of your alleged Messiah. You have every right to say Merry Christmas to you and yours, but having a cow because someone might prefer a "Happy Holidays" shows that you and your followers are either fanatics, or arrogant jerks. (Is there really a difference?)
|12.28.04 @ 10:47PM|#
"What diploma mill did he get that Ph.D from?"
I looked up Dr. May's credentials. Turns out he's an MD:
"Dr. May resides in Lubbock, Texas and is a retina surgeon; he lectures on economics, and he has been on the faculties of the University of Illinois, the University of Texas, the University of California, Tulane University, and Texas Tech Health Sciences University. He has lectured and taught surgery throughout the United States and in Canada, China, India, Japan, Great Britain, and Western Europe."
Sorry, but his Alma Mata should take his degree back. Stupidity such as his doesn't deserve to be given credence with an advance degree in anything. (I certainly wouldn't want him near my eyeballs.)
|12.29.04 @ 12:52AM|#
Hey Stepdad Joe, the H either stands for "Holy" or "Haploid," whichever you prefer.
|12.29.04 @ 5:56AM|#
Quick: The number of people who are going to mistake a Madonna and child painting for something secular -- especially considering that the stamp says "CHRISTMAS" right at the top -- is . . . Come on, people, I don't see any hands!
I suppose we can posit a first-time stamp buyer with no other cultural or life experience whatsoever, or someone from Upper Volta, or Mars, or something, but really.
|12.29.04 @ 9:46AM|#
OK, so once again, someone posts a "Hey, Jesus wasn't really born on December 25, that day was picked to coincide with pagan holidays."
No shit, Sherlock. We know. It doesn't make any difference. Christmas is not a birthday party. It is a celebration of a theological event, and the day was selected because it already had meaning to the populace, a meaning which was related to the feast's Christian significance, so celebrating it on the same day was an effective way to spread the message.
Honestly, it's like a sophmore announcing his discovery that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, and thinking he's making some world-shattering breakthrough.
|12.29.04 @ 10:22AM|#
ahh, joe, you poor papist you. you forget that you and your goddess worshipping bretheren, though represented in the media by such noble folk like mr. william donohue, do not account for those of a more literal biblical tone. i would say that perhaps it's a bit of a snicket at those who insist in biblical inerrancy, a charming and quaint notion in and of itself, but prone to being easily attacked.
what i would like to know, in all seriousness, is if anyone, anecdotally or not, has actually met someone who responded to "merry christmas" with "YOU FUCKING RELIGIOUS FASCIST, STOP TRYING TO OPPRESS ME!!!!!!!"
|12.29.04 @ 10:38AM|#
The Bible doesn't assign a date to Jesus' birth, dhex, so Biblical literalism doesn't bring a whole lot to bear on the question. I imagine a Biblical literalist would notice that shepherds only sleep in the fields with their flocks in the Spring, if Biblical literalists weren't so determined to be ignorant of the historical and cultural context of Biblical writings.
|12.29.04 @ 11:13AM|#
biblical literalism brings an awful lot of bears, but very little by way of picnic baskets.
|12.29.04 @ 1:38PM|#
"Those Americans who don't celebrate Christmas obviously have to be tolerant of the vast majority who do; but they also have a right to a public square which does not loudly tell them they don't belong." I'm confused. Why don't the celebrants have the same "right"? I thought tolerance meant that everyone tolerates the foibles of those other idiots instead of using the powers of the state to eject their expression from the public sphere. Adding "Happy Holidays" and associated expressions has extended the holiday spirit to many, ejecting "Merry Christmas" subtracts from many more.
|12.29.04 @ 2:01PM|#
And what might the 'H' stand for, Henry?
"Harold", of course. As in "Our Father, who art in Heaven, Harold be thy name".
|12.29.04 @ 2:53PM|#
I suppose we can posit a first-time stamp buyer with no other cultural or life experience whatsoever, or someone from Upper Volta, or Mars, or something, but really.
Phil, your comment -- insinuating that cultural experiences in Upper Volta are severely limited -- is extremely insensitive and offensive to persons of the Upper Voltese community. Upper Volta (now part of the vibrant emerging nation of Burkina Faso) is a cosmopolitan land rich in history and tradition, and famed for its openness and hospitality. Moreover, nearly 10% of the population is Christian -- mainly Roman Catholic, as a matter of fact. Certainly they would recognize an image of the Madonna and child. Arrogant, uninformed Westerners could learn much from this "land of the upright people." Shame! Shame!
(I can't help it, I used to work for a public university.) :)