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The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|12.21.04 @ 1:02PM|#
Ah, Michelle Malkin, the Asian Uncle Tom, or is that Aunt Tom? Or, what the hell. "The Goddess of Rational Racial Profiling."
A pox on her and her lick-spittle pandering to the Right.
|12.21.04 @ 1:15PM|#
I love the thought process on Malkin's mind. "Hmm, liberals compare modest actions against Arabs with the Japanese internment and insist that any form of profiling will inevitably lead to nightmare scenarios. How could I assuage their fears?......I've got it! I'll say that the internment wasn't so bad!"
Still, she's nice to look at, so it's all good.
|12.21.04 @ 1:33PM|#
Of course you don't find the book convincing. Malkin isn't supposed to be convincing to the rational, fair reader trying to understand the issue. It's supposed to make people who've made up their minds, but have lingering concerns about racism and fairness, feel better about themselves.
digamma|12.21.04 @ 1:36PM|#
There have been numerous terrorist plots in the Philippines. Hasn't anyone considered the danger that the children of Filipino immigrants might work within the US to destroy our freedom. By mastering the English language, they could publish newspaper columns and even BOOKS tearing down the American way of life!
Lock 'em all up.
digamma|12.21.04 @ 1:37PM|#
On second thought, I take it back. Malkin might just be crazy enough to support having herself interned.
|12.21.04 @ 1:46PM|#
Malkin might just be crazy enough to support having herself interned.
Malkin in a women's prison. Malkin showering with a bunch of other women.
I realize that by focusing exclusively on her appearance I'm ignoring her ideas and intellect. That's because the ideas and intellect found in her defense of internment are worth ignoring.
Oh, and I'll pre-empt whoever it was that got upset last time about the difference between internment and relocation: As I recall, your main point was a semantic one, that the proper word is "relocation", not "internment." Fine. I'll use the word "relocation" instead of "internment if it makes you happy." (No doubt some other poster will then come along and give a lecture about how the correct word really is "internment", but such are the perils of internet discussions.) None of that changes the basic ethical issues or the hollowness of Malkin's case.
drf|12.21.04 @ 1:55PM|#
but thoreau, it'd be worse under kerry and sandwiched between senator santorum's floppy pecs.
(just an image to contrast with the women's prison shower scene image)
the argument that has yet to be floated is "it's for THEIR own safety".
may the bullies that are gung ho on these things get a taste of this medicine, a la greek myths.
bah humbug.
drf
|12.21.04 @ 2:13PM|#
thoreau: yep, what a hotttie
http://www.1115.org/archives/000676.html
|12.21.04 @ 2:18PM|#
Lou Gehrig died in June, 1941, so he wasn't playing baseball when "Lou Shimizu and Joe Takahashi sat in desert camps" .
|12.21.04 @ 3:50PM|#
"Still, she's nice to look at, so it's all good."
The pic in my paper isn't quite so flattering. Still, I wouldn't object to bending her over one of the dirty sinks in the prison camps that she espouses.
|12.21.04 @ 6:56PM|#
"Still, she's nice to look at, so it's all good."
I don't find stupidity sexy at all.
|12.21.04 @ 7:17PM|#
Oh, and I'll pre-empt whoever it was that got upset last time about the difference between internment and relocation: As I recall, your main point was a semantic one, that the proper word is "relocation", not "internment."
I was perhaps the one poster not upset but rational.
The distinction between internment and relocation is critical. Had there been but internment then there would be no issue to interest the great intellects of Reason pall and post.
Internment is a legal and accepted practice both in the US and internationally. It occurs during wars and between wars. Belligerent nations intern and neutral countries intern. The latter are required to intern, within reason, certain persons of belligerent nations. There's a whole lotta internin' goin' on. You don't see the British, Scots, Canadians, Australians, French, etc. and so on anguishing over their internments, do you?
What was done to the Japanese-Americans has little to do with internment and everything to do with relocation.
|12.21.04 @ 10:21PM|#
I was perhaps the one poster not upset but rational.
D Anghelone-
Look, I get your point. But before you accuse us all of being irrational, keep in mind that we were upset about the same thing that you yourself said was unjust: A bunch of American citizens were rounded up and taken away from their homes for no good reason.
Now, because we aren't as dictionary-savvy as you, we might have referred to this by the word "internment", not realizing that the proper word is "relocation." But we were upset over the fact that a bunch of US citizens were rounded up and taken away from their homes.
Why you keep harping about the proper word for it is beyond me.
|12.21.04 @ 10:26PM|#
Does this mean the Japs have the "Right of Return"?
|12.21.04 @ 11:22PM|#
"You don't see the British, Scots, Canadians, Australians, French, etc. and so on anguishing over their internments, do you?"
Uh, how do you define "anguishing"? The Canadian government issued an official apology to interned Japanese-Canadians and paid compensation to them in 1988:
http://www.lib.washington.edu/subject/Canada/internment/intro.html
I'm not sure about the others, but the British probably have a lot less to be anguished about, since they set up review panels to make risk assessments of their internees. Of 74,000 Axis citizens initially contacted, 64,000 were completely cleared, 8,000 were released subject to some degree of restriction, and only 2,000 were actually held in custody. This entire evaluation process took only 6 months to complete. My source for this? The dissent in Korematsu v. United States, see 323 U.S. 214, 242 n.16 (1944), i.e., the decision that concluded mass internment was a reasonable measure. In other words, this isn't hindsight, it was a fact in within the knowledge of the court at the time. Furthermore, it could be pointed out that all three dissenters in Korematsu expressly stated that they believed the internment order was motivated by racism rather than serious security concerns.
|12.22.04 @ 12:59AM|#
This just in from Salon.com: Malkin is now a calendar girl.
|12.22.04 @ 1:54AM|#
thoreau,
Talk about bizarro world. :)
|12.22.04 @ 6:25AM|#
thoreau: "Why you keep harping about the proper word for it is beyond me."
Because it explains what happened in the US. Because it explains that what happened was beyond internment which is common and expected. Because most of the comparisons between now (Gitmo, for instance) and then (internment) have little meaning.
And another little matter. It's, IMO, important to know that Germans, Italians and others were interned, relocated and excluded. That their homes were searched to confiscate items like flashights and radios capable of receiving SW. Important because it informs that nothing will be limited to some assumed target group.
|12.22.04 @ 6:40AM|#
Jack: "Furthermore, it could be pointed out that all three dissenters in Korematsu expressly stated that they believed the internment order was motivated by racism rather than serious security concerns."
Furthermore, it should be noted that I've said nothing about racism and certainly not denied any racist motivations. I leave the revisionist denials, regarding Germans and Italians, to Muller and Robinson.
And I know about the Canadian situation. How many books have been and are being written about that?
28,000 Japanese was quite a number for the Canadian population, eh? Not including the Europeans, of course.
Jack: "I'm not sure about the others, but the British probably have a lot less to be anguished about..."
Well, they had some early problems as with the Arandora Star.
And on the general topic of internment, we shouldn't limit ourselves to WWII. There been a whole lotta internin' goin' on.
|12.22.04 @ 6:46AM|#
Ah, Michelle Malkin, the Asian Uncle Tom...
Talk about a racializing, groupthinking twit. Filipino is the same as Japanese? Someone should have told the Japanese.
|12.22.04 @ 12:31PM|#
D Anghelone-
OK, as I understand you, the legal definition of "internment" only refers to rounding up and confining (I'm trying to be careful with my words so I don't read too much into it) citizens of nations that we're at war with. So, "internment" of Japanese citizens was not the real problem.
I can accept that, at least for the sake of argument.
But I don't think most people are upset over the internment of citizens of an enemy nation. We're upset over the detention/relocation/whatever-other-word-you-like of US citizens.
So why do you keep beating us over the head with this vocabulary lecture? What's your point?
|12.22.04 @ 1:10PM|#
thoreau,
Detentions that may be called internment happen with and without war. Here is one account of international law. Please note that war is not specified as being necessary for these detentions.
I don't know what is US law regarding detentions. I don't know that anyone does or that the matter has ever been settled. I suppose that Gitmo was chosen for the current detentions to skirt possible challenges to those detentions as Gitmo is not (or is it?) the US. Devils in details and all that shit.
Now I've seen all sorts of people pontificating on what is and isn't legal but I've not seen anyone cite any relevant laws.
|12.22.04 @ 1:14PM|#
D Anghelone-
OK, so detention of non-citizens may be lawful even if there is no war.
Whatever one might think of that, what is the point you are trying to make? Most of us are talking about the fact that US citizens were rounded up and taken away from their homes by force. What would you like us to understand about that, aside from the fact that "internment" isn't the proper term to describe it?
Also, I just read Thomas Sowell's latest column. He praises Malkin's book. I never liked Sowell much, because even when I agree with him on the issues I still think his writing focuses too much on the evils of liberals rather than an upbeat suggestion of a better policy. Now I have one more reason not to respect him.
|12.22.04 @ 3:19PM|#
thoreau: "Most of us are talking about the fact that US citizens were rounded up and taken away from their homes by force."
I think that most are comparing the then with the now, as per Malkin. A more comprehensive view of the then is here. If what may be done is what has been done then Hummel pretty much covers it.
We know the Japanese-Americans were placed into camps and we know there was much racism behind that. Let's move on.
|12.22.04 @ 5:19PM|#
If Malkin were in charge, every middle eastern, including middle eastern Americans, would be locked up or kicked out of the country (not that that would necessarily be a bad thing). But she's lying when she says she wouldn't do it. Also, she wants extra security against Arab and arab-looking men. But Muslim women and converts (the American Taliban, Padilla,etc.) are probably more radical and extremist than middle eastern Muslims. That's the counter-argument against focusing on Arab-looking passengers only. The next great attack may be committed by a bunch of white muslims or female muslims, or even animal-rights lunatics or anti-government nuts, who knows? it's too short-sighted and obvious to focus on middle easterners only.
|12.22.04 @ 6:29PM|#
D Anghelone-
Whatever point you may wish to make about detentions of terrorism suspects today, you undermine it when you go on about the detention/relocation/internment/insert-other-word-here of ethnic Japanese in WWII.
So, what would you like to say about the detention of suspects in terrorism cases?
|12.22.04 @ 8:10PM|#
So, what would you like to say about the detention of suspects in terrorism cases?
Nothing. This is just discussion.