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When Geezers Rock the Earth
The editors at Rolling Stone have handed down the 500 Greatest Songs of All Time, by which they mean the songs that we are declaring great in order to cover our collective asses for 35 years of being wrong about everything, except, possibly, how important we are.
The top 20 alone is a wonderful baby-boomer retro land with the newest track of 1991 vintage. And guess what RS declared "voice of a generation" penned that number? Hint: click-click splatter.
Better still, the list boasts exactly three (3) tracks since 2000 and two of them by Eminem. Quality.
The list can be sorted by different fields which yields the inescapable result that the Reagan years delivered such a shock to the RS mindset that it never really recovered.
And really, what about some Hawkwind or Marillion?
|11.20.04 @ 11:15AM|#
What no Cocteau Twins? That's it, Rolling Stone has lost all credibility with me.
|11.20.04 @ 11:42AM|#
I resolve in the future not to read lists like this; I
invariably just find them annoying. But I can't resist the first
two of many things to pop into my head...
(1) The second Beatles track to make the list is "Yesterday?"
YESTERDAY?!?
(2) The Velvet Underground's "Heroin" finally shows up in the mid
400s... eight spots below "Push It." Words fail.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 11:49AM|#
Please... Didn't we do this a few months back, with much the
same whining?
A. "Of All Time" suggests songs old enough to have stood the test
of time, does it not?
B. I think RS has enough street cred to make this a fairly
universal list, although everyone's individual taste will not be
served.
C. JETHRO TULL!!!!
Warren|11.20.04 @ 11:52AM|#
It wasn't the "Reagan years", it was MTV. And yeah MTV pretty much killed rock n roll. A few folks managed to record good tunes through the late 80's but by 1990 nothing new was worth listening to. Things have only gotten worse, including� no especially, eminem.
|11.20.04 @ 12:24PM|#
I love how these lists always contain the most "popular" song of
each band, regardless of quality... like the B-52's: "Love Shack"
instead of the much better (and more important) "Rock Lobster", or
hell, "Roam". Depeche Mode: "Personal Jesus" - are you kidding?
Yuck. How about "Blasphemous Rumours" or "But Not Tonight" or even
"People are People"?? The Smiths: "How Soon Is Now?" - over it
already.... but am very impressed by the inclusion of "William, It
Was Really Nothing" - how'd THAT get in there?!
But yeah, these lists suck.
Warren|11.20.04 @ 12:29PM|#
After reviewing the list, I can tell you then number of 'That's
just fucking retarded' observations are too many to itemize. I'll
just mention my biggest eye-popping, jaw-dropping, outrage:
#500 More that a feeling by Boston. Their only appearance.
|11.20.04 @ 12:31PM|#
I'm sure it's purely coincidental that the top two songs either include "Rolling Stone" in the title or are by the Rolling Stones.
|11.20.04 @ 12:32PM|#
It's all so subjective, the only thing that these lists are good
for is to recall tunes that we might have enjoyed but haven't
thought about in a while.
What Julian said about "Yesterday".
That the list is woefully neglectful of the New Wave genre is
indicated by the lack of inclusion of even any Devo or Go Go's
songs.
|11.20.04 @ 12:53PM|#
I don't know how these can all be called "songs," since to me a song should be something that other people can do besides the original artist. The popularity of a lot of these recordings is specific to the artist/original rendition. I mean, how many other musicians have done their version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" or even "Good Vibrations"?
|11.20.04 @ 1:04PM|#
i've heard two different versions of smells like teen spirit -
one was a rather uninspired jungle mix and the other a rather
inspired basic channel-esque minimal house rmx.
i mean, it is rolling stone after all.
and i'm sure there's not a single boredoms song on there.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 1:25PM|#
Too bad musicologists tend to avoid commenting on anything
closer to rock and pop than mainstream jazz. When evaluating jazz
music, musicians are rated based not only on their skill, but on
whether or not they are particularly unique in style, and whether
they prove to be seminal to a new school of jazz. Bird Parker and
Dizzie Gillespie, for example, are not only known for their
personal output, but for their status as icons of the bebop style,
just Stan Getz and Dave Brubeck exemplify the "cool" style, and so
on.
Jazz selections become "standards" as they pass the obvious test of
time, become part of the repertoire of subsequent artists, and are
themselves transformed and treated differently as style trends
progress.
Rating rock and pop music is difficult because the shelf life of
both the artists and the repertorire is relatively brief. RIAA and
other conglomerations of music suits constantly demand the "next
new thing" to keep their profits up. There is basically no test of
time to pass, and rather than being venerated, "rock standards"
tend to be parodied and discounted as "oldies," to be played by
tribute and cover bands at various Holiday Inns and casinos.
There is plenty of good, even great, rock and pop music out there.
The problem is there are very few objective standards with which to
judge their value.
Oh, and by the way....
THE TUBES!!!!
|11.20.04 @ 1:27PM|#
I'm not sure if it says worse about the speaker that Rolling Stone can't find a song after 1991, or that YOU think that's the biggest deficiency-- as opposed to the complete lack of songs before 1950. Schubert, W.C. Handy and Cole Porter are laughing at all of you.
|11.20.04 @ 1:33PM|#
The popularity of a lot of these recordings is specific to
the artist/original rendition.
Well, it IS rock and roll. We're not talking "standards" here
(thank goodness...)
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 1:41PM|#
Patrick, you miss the point. Without some kind of standard for evaluation, these lists will ALWAYS be subjective, and ultimately pointless. And a**holes like us will wasted time arguing the relative merits of what's on the list versus our own personal tastes.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 1:45PM|#
Plus,
There are many on this list that may more properly be categorized
as R&B, blues and/or old school funk. Apparently they don't
even have any standards for the very market niches the industry
itself has set up.
Oh, and, I forgot to mention....
STEELY DAN
Brian Carnell|11.20.04 @ 1:48PM|#
"i've heard two different versions of smells like teen spirit -
one was a rather uninspired jungle mix and the other a rather
inspired basic channel-esque minimal house rmx."
Although I'm not a fan of her other music, Tori Amos' cover of Teen
Spirit is very good IMO.
"(2) The Velvet Underground's "Heroin" finally shows up in the mid
400s... eight spots below "Push It." Words fail."
Holy crap -- that's seriously screwed up.
What I can't figure is why "Imagine" is on the list at all, much
less at #3.
|11.20.04 @ 1:50PM|#
You all have lousy taste. And Marillion SHOULD have been on the
list.
Phil
P.S. Tull and Steely Dan are good suggestions too, WASPB.
Sam|11.20.04 @ 1:50PM|#
How about some other lists?
Like: best dance tune, best sing along, best sounding on a AM
radio, most requested, most played at wedding receptions, best
cover, cover better than the original (Heard it Through the
Grapevine by Marvin Gaye), etc.
An awful lot depends on what you grew up with, doesn't it?
|11.20.04 @ 1:52PM|#
I only needed to look and see that Britney Spears wasn't in the top 3 to know that the list was worthless!
|11.20.04 @ 1:53PM|#
Tori Amos did a piano and vocal only version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit". I don't care for Nirvana, but her take on the song was nice.
|11.20.04 @ 1:54PM|#
No, what I mean is rock and roll is not about "standards", that is, songs that anyone can sing with their own interpretations. Yes, it happens occasionally, but the emphasis is, and should be, on the artists themselves, their sound, their writing, etc.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 1:59PM|#
Well said, Phil and Sam.
If these lists keep being perpetrated on an unsuspecting public, I
suggest they make distinctions between "best" lists and "most
popular" lists.
"Most popular" lists can take into account sales data, or even
better, a ratio of revenues to promotional expenses.
"Best" lists should be limited to the evaluations of people who
know what they are talking about. Polling artists is a good start.
A better criteria, it seems to me, would be to poll only
*songwriters,* particularly those who do not record and market
their own work.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 2:01PM|#
Patrick - "but the emphasis is, and should be, on the artists
themselves, their sound, their writing, etc."
That's an interesting point. I'm curious why you think so.
|11.20.04 @ 2:27PM|#
Warren, Disco killed rock and roll not MTV. :--)
Really, that's a misnomer though because rock always had good
stuff, even in the dregs of disco and some of the awful crap that
came later. And there's really great stuff today as well. We may or
may not agree on what it is, but it's there.
Trouble with Rolling Stone is they're like me, less picky about the
'coming of age' music from our own generation and more picky about
contemporary stuff. Plus, when yer an old dog like me you can
really fill up 500 slots in a hurry with pretty good stuff, which
doesn't leave as much room for the contemporary stylings.
I've got gigs and gigs of good music, some of which predates me by
decades and the rest runs all the way up to the present. I won't
commit to a gig waving contest because I honestly don't know how
much is a lot, but it seems like I have a lot of music on this HD
(and I often only copy the good tracks not the whole album). And
speaking of Ewwwwwwwwwwww, neither Rocket Man or Do You Think I'm
Sexy are on the HD (good gravy man, what IS wrong with RS)
|11.20.04 @ 2:37PM|#
That's an interesting point. I'm curious why you think
so.
Because the artist is an important component of making music?
Otherwise, it's just an arrangement of notes. Which is fine, if you
specify a songWRITING list. If you think "Smells Like Teen Spirit",
for example, is a great song (I don't, but that's beside the
point...), don't you think it's a great song because Nirvana wrote
and performed it? When Tori Amos (who I like, for the most part)
performs it, it's just kitschy. Or take "It's My Life", a fantastic
Talk Talk song - and a horrible No Doubt song. I guess I focus more
attention on the sound of the band than on the actual craft of
songwriting.
|11.20.04 @ 2:43PM|#
Elvis doesn't show up until #19, for Hound Dog of all things. That's a clear, scientific metric for disqualifying this list.
The Lonewacko Blog|11.20.04 @ 2:56PM|#
One Allman Brothers song, but three from Aerosmith?
Two of those rated higher than Whipping Post?
|11.20.04 @ 4:23PM|#
Patrick: "I love how these lists always contain the most
"popular" song of each band, regardless of quality... like the
B-52's: "Love Shack" instead of the much better (and more
important) "Rock Lobster", or hell, "Roam"."
Uh, Patrick you need to pay closer attention. A) "Rock Lobster" was
on the list; and B) It was ranked substantially higher than "Love
Shack" (146 compared to 243).
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 4:35PM|#
Patrick - "Because the artist is an important component of
making music? Otherwise, it's just an arrangement of notes.
Mm, true, to a point, but in serious music, for example, you're
just not a real organist unless you've performed Bach's "Toccata
and Fugue," because the piece itself has merit, properly performed
more or less as the composer conceived it. Style and delivery are
important, but the composition, itself, has stood for a couple of
centuries now even though it is just "an arrangement of
notes."
And, since this is a list of "greatest songs," not "greatest
performances" or "greatest recordings," it makes the composition
itself even more relevent.
Oh, and FYI --- WARREN ZEVON!!!
|11.20.04 @ 5:01PM|#
It's pointless but:
"Tears in Heaven"???? "TEARS IN HEAVEN"?????
Plus the omission of "Gin 'n Juice." Come on. To Rolling Stone: I
don't love you hos, I'm out the do'.
|11.20.04 @ 5:19PM|#
Sam wrote,"An awful lot depends on what you grew up with,
doesn't it?"
I agree.
There appear to be at least three modes in the distribution of the
issue year of the 500 songs ranked; 1957, 1967 and 1987. Assuming
17 is the age at which rock and roll has its greatest impression
upon an individual's life long preferences, the modes correspond to
those 17 year olds who have birth years of 1940, 1950 and 1970
which in turn correspond to current ages of 64, 54 and 34,
respectively.
I'm guessing the songs clustered about 1957 were selected for
reasons purely academic. The 1967 and 1987 modes I would guess are
driven, to a degree, by the personal profiles of the judges. The
judges can be grouped into two classes; the elders in their 50's,
composed purhaps of senior editors and such, and the youthful staff
in their 30's, writers and contributors. Senior editors appear to
dominate the selection process, 251 of the 500 selected songs were
released in the years 1963 through 1973.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 5:20PM|#
Jarod, I feel your pain, dude, but yup, it's pointless.
Warren|11.20.04 @ 5:26PM|#
TWC,
I stand by my claim that MTV killed RnR. True, Disco Sucks (Disco
still sucks), but as you concede even while disco was
ravaging the top 40 there was plenty of ass kicking rock to be
found (ZEPPELIN RULES). As for more recent stuff, I like They Might
Be Giants and I had a good time at a Phish concert (stop laughing).
I got fed up with commercial radio in the early 90's. Since then
I've been discovering classical and jazz. Even so, the vast bulk of
crap that passes for music these days is just nauseating. There may
be good stuff out there but you have to look a whole lot
harder.
Rick Barton,
I was not a big fan of new wave at the time, but I'll add the
Talking Heads to boost your claim.
and oh yeah --- REO
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 5:32PM|#
Warren,
A big YAHOO for Talking Heads. I agree. "Burning Down The House"
has been covered by Living Color, Bonnie Raitt, and some reggae
band whose name escapes me, just to name a few, and to me, that
says something. A lot of onstage value to that tune as well. Just
seems to lend itself to awesome live performance.
fyodor|11.20.04 @ 5:35PM|#
And really, what about some Hawkwind or
Marillion?
I guess it's just the Spirit of the Age!!
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 5:36PM|#
And, I'm going to say a word or two in defense of disco.
Although it did birth a lot of smarmy, polyester, lowlife danceclub
culture, horrible dance moves, not to mention THE CLOTHES, it did
bring a lot of good female singers to the forefront at a time when
good vocalists were hard to find in rock. Say what you want about
Donna Summer, Gloria Gaynor and Evelyn "Champagne" King, the girls
had some pipes.
Made the clothes look good, too.
fyodor|11.20.04 @ 5:40PM|#
"An awful lot depends on what you grew up with, doesn't
it?"
My sixty-something college prof aunt says her musical tastes
haven't changed since she wasn't 18. She still thinks nothing beats
Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons!"
|11.20.04 @ 5:41PM|#
Head Like a Hole
You've got no soul
I'd rather die
Than answer this poll.
Bow down before the one you serve
Damn boomers got a lot of nerve.
|11.20.04 @ 5:51PM|#
I own 131 albums that would qualify for this list, and only two
of their songs are on that list (#256 and #497). And both of those
songs are in my short pile of "How did I get that?" albums.
I knew I had good taste -- but I never knew it was this good!
|11.20.04 @ 6:11PM|#
Rolling Stone has no cred. That mag sucks (mostly) and has for a
long time.
This is at least partially because commercial/radio music sucks
(mostly) and has for a long time.
There is a ton of great music being made; no matter what genre,
style, mood, etc you're looking for, it's there.
But the odds of hearing it on commercial radio, seeing it on MTV or
reading about it in Rolling Stone are slim to none.
[And yes, of course, these are my thoughts on the matter; I'm not
trying to pass them off as accepted facts or general public opinion
or whatnot.]
|11.20.04 @ 6:23PM|#
Ah, nostalgia - as a young Hawkfan, Neil's line in that episode
got me into Marillion.
Now I'm going to have to go listen to "Lost Johnny" and "Sugar
Mice".
Another great moment in crusty music criticism: "I feel like a
Leonard Cohen record. I won't say anything because no one listens
to me anyway."
|11.20.04 @ 6:25PM|#
"Of All Time" suggests songs old enough to have stood the
test of time, does it not?
Well that sure as heck doesn't explain what "Imagine" is doing at
#3. That song didn't even stand the test of the 80s, let alone the
test of time.
"Burning Down The House" has been covered by Living Color,
Bonnie Raitt, and some reggae band whose name escapes me
Are you sure about that? Living Colour covered "Memories Can't
Wait" on their first album, but this is the first I've heard of
them covering "Burning Down the House".
Anyway, yeah, it's unbelievable that there's nothing by the Talking
Heads on this list. I'd also like to file a complaint about the
lack of anything by Oingo Boingo or The Replacements. Come on guys,
you've got friggin' Norman Greenbaum and Mott the Hoople, and you
couldn't spare room for some of the best groups of the 80s?
My other big beef with the list: their selection of Led Zeppelin
songs is goofy. Is there anyone actually familiar with LZ's music
who thinks that "Stairway to Heaven" is their best song? And if you
had to pick their six best songs, would "Kashmir" and "Ramble On"
be on the list?
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.20.04 @ 6:36PM|#
Dan,
My mistake, it isn't a cover. There's a bootleg live recording
where LC does a version of it as an encore. I used to have it on my
harddrive, an old Naptster download, but I lost it somehow. Look
for it on Gnutella if you are brave enough to avoid the possibility
of being sued. I think it was a one-off, I never heard them do it
again, or heard OF them do it again. It was pretty freaking cool,
tho.
|11.20.04 @ 6:42PM|#
On a slightly related note, I just got the latest Eminem
release. The bonus CD includes the song "We as Americans". In it he
says, among other things, some lyrics remarkably favorable toward
the second amendment:
There's an intruder
in my house
He cut my phone-lines
can't dial out
I scream for police
but I doubt
They're gonna hear me
when I shout
...
they took away my right to bear arms
what I'm posed to fight with bear palms?
yeah right
they coming with bombs, I'm comin with flare-guns
We as americans
[Chorus]
We as a Americans
Us as a citizen
Gotta protect ourselves...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The LP should nominate
Eminem in 2008. He's clearly a fan of the first and second
amendments, he's living proof that the free enterprise system can
lift anybody out of poverty, he's pretty obviously pro-drug, he
doesn't like authority, and he's from a swing state ;-)
|11.20.04 @ 6:51PM|#
"MTV pretty much killed rock n roll"
No, I remember, they found the suicide note, & it was signed
'Bachman Turner Overdrive'.
|11.20.04 @ 6:55PM|#
Warren,
Yeah, the Heads. Thanks. Also, the Cars and Duran Duran. And while
I'm at it, shouldn't "Karma Chameleon" by Culture Club be on the
list?
Also, for my taste, if I just started going thru my Beatles and
Stones collections, a lot of other stuff on that list would have to
come off to make room. And, am I given to understand that there are
no Gerry and the Pacemakers songs?? Also, what about "Doo Wah
Ditty" by Mannford Man? Gimme a break. And no Herman's Hermits
either?? Ok, now I'm starting to get cheesed off.
No Peter and Gordon or Chad and Jeremy?? What about "Summer Nights"
by Mary Ann Faithful? I could go on. Who are the idiots that
compiled this list? They left out a lot of great 60's Mersey era,
as well as New Wave music!
fyodor,
Kudos to your aunt. At least she stuck with a great one.
|11.20.04 @ 7:07PM|#
"The list can be sorted by different fields which yields the
inescapable result that the Reagan years delivered such a shock to
the RS mindset that it never really recovered."
That is so true. Even when the list does cite an artist from the
Reagan Years, it's often a song that didn't come out until
recently.
There's a conspiracy between the Boomers and Echo-Boomers:
Generation X is to be scheduled for cultural crucifixion; they're
just arguing about the date.
|11.20.04 @ 7:31PM|#
500 rock songs listed among the greatest... AND NOT ONE OF THEM
BY MEAT LOAF!!!
There is no justice in this universe. May the flannel wearing
slackers who write RS rot in hell.
|11.20.04 @ 8:14PM|#
Geez, what a parochial, provincial list. Hardly anything from the pre-rock era. Hardly anything from outside the US and UK. I call bullshit!
|11.20.04 @ 8:53PM|#
My other big beef with the list: their selection of Led
Zeppelin songs is goofy. Is there anyone actually familiar with
LZ's music who thinks that "Stairway to Heaven" is their best
song?
Yes. Just because Stairway has been massively overplayed does not
mean it is any less of a song. It is their magnum opus.
Queen fans recognise the same problem with Bohemian Rhapsody, the
best Queen song by far but massively overplayed and parodied.
And if you had to pick their six best songs, would "Kashmir"
and "Ramble On" be on the list?
Kashmir, absolutely.
Ramble On, not hardly.
- Josh
Warren|11.20.04 @ 8:55PM|#
Herman's Hermitx
Jan and Dean
The Guess Who
Bob Denver
Don McLean (American Pie)
Ted Nugent
Golden Earring
Pat Benatar
Styx
Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and oh yeah all of 80's heavy
metal
Who else?
oh and, not for nuthin but--- RUSH
|11.20.04 @ 8:57PM|#
I should first mention that I haven't looked at the list and
don't intend to. I might if I thought that it might point me toward
some interesting music I hadn't heard of, but considering the
source, it's unlikely.
As to why some new wave bands didn't make the list (the Go-Go's
weren't really new wave were they?), basically it's because there
weren't any great new wave SONGS. I'll use an example more
appropriate to my taste. I love AC/DC, they were (mostly) a great
no-nonsense rock band. However, I wouldn't put any one of their
songs on a "best songs" list. They milked every last drop out of 4
chords (better than any of zillions of lousy punk bands, I should
add...just to piss off probably everyone here). But it was their
execution that made their music really exciting, not the
songwriting. Same thing with New Wave (except the execution mostly
sucked).
Phil
P.S. I know, AC/DC are still around, but the past tense seems more
appropriate for them now.
P.P.S. AC/DC also stand as an example of why "reaction to the
excesses of 70's rock bands" is a lousy explanation for punk
rock.
|11.20.04 @ 9:00PM|#
...and furthermore...what Warren said about Rush!
Neil Peart is the greatest rock lyricist ever. And Geddy and Alex
are no slouches either.
Phil
|11.20.04 @ 9:18PM|#
White Ango Saxon Protestant Bacehlor � Hey, sports fan! Of
course, Waybill loses a lot of cred for appearing in
Xanadu...
Jeff A. Taylor � Right on about Hawkwind, man! What tracks?
Warren|11.20.04 @ 9:21PM|#
AC/DC Arrrrrrrgh!
You ruined my cred Phil
AC/DC made the list twice (and neither of them was You Shook Me),
Therefore I must withdraw my "all of 80's heavy metal" got snubbed
claim.
However, I now claim that it is even more retarded to snub Hell
Bent for Leather while including Highway to Hell.
While I'm on the subject --- MOTLEY CRUE (sorry no umlauts)
|11.20.04 @ 9:43PM|#
There have been a number of bold statements made in this thread,
and I was willing to bite my tongue for a bit, but some of you have
just taken this too far...
...For the record, Stairway is not Zeppelin's best track;
4 isn't even close to being their best album. The best Zeppelin
album was either Zeppelin I, which is one of the best blues albums
ever, or Physical Graffiti, which contains Zeppelin's best song, In
My Time of Dying.
Got that? In My Time of Dying--full stop.
There was another claim made, I won't name any names, I'll just
point out that the best--best I say--rock and roll song ever
recorded in the history of the universe is Whole Lotta Rosie.
Listen to it live, listen to the studio version, either way, cue it
up on the 'phones, and if you ain't playin' air guitar, there's
something wrong with you.
Earlier, there was talk about disco killing rock and roll, so
wrong. AC/DC, Judas Priest, and others were still keeping the flame
alive, albeit underground. I remember the last hit disco song as
being Funkytown circa 1980. Rock and roll destroyed disco, and it
did it so fast people couldn't keep up with it. When I was about
12, I remember seeing the Plasmatics on Solid Gold, that's right,
there were Solid Gold dancers trying to dance to Black
Monster!
P.S. Back to the list, I also noticed that the first two Wailers'
songs to make the list, One Love and Redemption Song, are among the
two most un-Reggae like songs the Wailers put out. RS has no shame.
No Lively Up Yourself? No Exodus?
|11.20.04 @ 10:00PM|#
Three Pink Floyds in the 300s: two from "The Wall" and the title track from "Wish You Were Here", but not one single song from "Dark Side of the Moon"?! Did I miss it? Please tell me I did...
|11.20.04 @ 10:02PM|#
HEY R.B.
Props to you on Zep and Rosie. Though I'm the only fan in the world
who prefers Zep 2 to Zep 1, I think the band hit thier stride with
4 (despite the OD we've all had on "Stairway...")and I TOTALLY
concur that "IMTOD" is by far their best!
|11.20.04 @ 10:18PM|#
I'm not a big fan of Nirvana. I thought that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was played into oblivion, but the Bad Plus' cover fixed that. And Herbie Hancock makes something out of All Apologies.
|11.20.04 @ 10:43PM|#
Do any of you have any idea what my post is about?
Or do you all just think I'm tripping?
|11.20.04 @ 11:03PM|#
Physical Graffiti, which contains Zeppelin's best song, In
My Time of Dying.
Got that? In My Time of Dying--full stop.
If you asked 10 Zeppelin fans, you'd probably get 10 different
"best songs".
Though In My Time of Dying is great, my answer is Trampled Under
Foot.
(my favorite Zep song is How Many More Times, but I know that's
just a guilty pleasure)
|11.20.04 @ 11:04PM|#
The main problem with these lists (other than that they are
completely subjective and therefore easy to disagree with) is that
they invariably focus on bands and artists instead of the actual
songs themselves.
The reality is that the Kingsmen should be above the Rolling Stones
(and most of the other GREAT bands because they came up with,
didn't actually write it though, one of the undisputed top Rock and
Roll songs in history) on any of these lists.
So invariably these lists are filled with a bunch of people's
favorite bands and the Count Five, Lloyd Price, ? and the
Mysterians, the Romantics, Suicidal Tendencies, Dexy's Midnight
Runners and basically all of the newer bands get screwed in favor
of a bunch of tired old preening rock stars many who were never
particularly good in the first place and simply had something else
going for them.
I saw a band of 20 year old kids a year ago do a cover of Slow
Down, a song more than twice as old as any of them. They were at
least the 153,762nd band to cover that song. I think that says a
lot more about song quality than getting famous by protesting the
Vietnam War.
I didn't chekc the list, but I bet Sam the Sham and the Pharoahs
got screwed. Am I right?
|11.20.04 @ 11:07PM|#
The RS list is pathetic.
Not one song by one of the greatest rock bands of all time - X.
They actually made awesome music during the 80's and they're from
L.A. Talk about obstacles.
Appalling.
|11.20.04 @ 11:11PM|#
You all are writing as though Rolling Stone is some kind of actual historical record and authority of rock music. They are a magazine written by and for complete musical know-nothings without any taste. Does it take an ounce of critical judgment to deem Bob Dylan or the Beatles worthy of placement in a songs of all time list?? Lists like this are made for those people who can't be bothered to figure out what they actually like about music but would like to pretend. Rolling Stone is not worthy of being used as toilet paper.
|11.20.04 @ 11:20PM|#
Whipping Post is good but the best line from those boys ever
is:
Might be your man, I don't know
J. Goard|11.20.04 @ 11:20PM|#
If Neil Peart qualifies as a great lyricist, it's only up until
1991 or so. Let me put it this way: "Counterparts" is one of the
most painfully bad albums I have ever heard, and the music is
pretty good.
The list is lame, IMHO. Way too much duplication of the icons, who
weren't necessarily the best artists.
|11.20.04 @ 11:25PM|#
joe,
Tripping. :) I recognize "Bow down before the one you serve", but
that's it.
|11.20.04 @ 11:34PM|#
This list is pretty awful, as per my brain.
As a guy that listens to Blues and pretty much nothing else, I
think I'm sort of unbiased enough to look at a list like this and
give a fair judgement.
Judgement: This list stinks. Lacking large parts of time and genre
and heavily overdosed on Beatles, Stones and Dylan.
Imagine?!?! You gotta be freaking kidding me. That song would get
nowhere near a true list of the top 500 rock songs of all time.
Like a Rolling Stone? Yikes. I don't even know if that's one of
Dylan's five best. Stairway? It's overwrung crap compared to the
best Zep...
|11.20.04 @ 11:35PM|#
"Geez, what a parochial, provincial list. Hardly anything from
the pre-rock era. Hardly anything from outside the US and UK. I
call bullshit!"
Yes, more pre-rock on the rock list! And more monophonic subsaharan
chants!
Though, the real problem is that they included song "X," which is
obviously a fetid pile of poo-poo, while completely neglecting song
"Y," and band "Z" entirely. Also, not only don't I own any of the
songs on the list, I don't even own any songs that use the same
vowels as any of the songs on that list! That's how awesome my
taste is!
|11.20.04 @ 11:56PM|#
Sure I do Joe, head like a hole (by NIN), I thought the post was pretty clever, to be honest I just skimmed the names of the bands, you would think that there were only like 60-70 good bands making music in the past 50 years, and that they all pretty much stopped in the 80's, can't believe the absence of the replacements, sonic youth, duran duran, husker du, ministry, kraftwerk...etc etc, and I think the only reason 'William...' by the Smiths made it was because Dre 3000 of outkast says its his favorite smiths tune
|11.21.04 @ 12:03AM|#
John, your sure as heck right about one thing. You're never
gonna see or hear any music on MTV.
Warren, so yer saying video killed the radio star but I say
something killed MTV and later VH-1 but nobody told either one they
were dead.
? & the Mysterions was a great band.
AC/DC is even better with Jack Black as lead singer.
|11.21.04 @ 12:23AM|#
Joe:
I knew. I even agree, and I'm not even a NIN fan. But
then, look at the list with the "year" sorting - there're only
eleven songs from the last decade.
|11.21.04 @ 12:27AM|#
Dang, this is a day-old topic and it's Saturday night. In
between reading and posting a reply just now, ~10 new posts.
Nothing - but nothing - gets people going quite like
pointless top N song lists.
Maybe we should make one. ;)
|11.21.04 @ 12:45AM|#
If I hadn't already gone on about Whole Lotta Rosie, I might
have mentioned that Fat Bottom Girls is my favorite Queen
song.
...but that might tell you all more about me than you want to
know.
|11.21.04 @ 1:09AM|#
No Blind Faith? No Cream?? Did I miss them? As mentioned, no
Tull?? C'mon. And what about Peter Gabriel and Genesis? Gabriel has
to be one of the most influential writers/lyricists of the last
three and a half decades. When I saw "Won't Get Fooled Again," at
#133 I stopped reading. Bleh.
I've long had disdain for RS but now it's crossed over to pity.
|11.21.04 @ 1:35AM|#
"I can't get off on the Rolling Stone / But the robots think
it's great..."
No Frank Zappa on the list either.
Warren|11.21.04 @ 1:44AM|#
Greg,
Put down the bong dude. Cream hit with three tunes (albeit all
woefully undervalued).
Michael,
Good call on Zappa
oh and--- THE GREATFUL DEAD
|11.21.04 @ 1:59AM|#
I like joe's post.
Every now and then I fantasize about meeting Bush or any member of
Congress, and it usually involves me kicking them in the teeth and
shouting "I'd rather die than give you control! Bow down before the
one you serve! You're going to get what you deserve!"
You know, I'm pretty sure that such daydreams are illegal under the
Patriot Act ;)
Terrie|11.21.04 @ 2:00AM|#
I blogged the list of 500 yesterday under a post titled I Can Hear Music at everyopinion.blogspot.com, if you want to check it out. I also listed my personal favorites who were omitted, along with some of their songs I would have included.
|11.21.04 @ 2:37AM|#
rolling stone sells more copies than reason. that is what the market decided. get over it. market losers.
Warren|11.21.04 @ 2:40AM|#
The RollingStone 500 greatest songs of all time is Heartless.
Get it? HEART-less. See what I did there? Cause there's no
HEART on the list. See? tee hee hee
Oh dear it's way past my bed time.
Oh and --- LOVERBOY
Thank You, and Good Night
|11.21.04 @ 2:41AM|#
Yes, more pre-rock on the rock list. And more monophonic
subsaharan chants.
Well, they did call it the 500 Greatest Songs of
All Time (although they later qualified it by
adding rock'n'roll)...and "all time" doesn't exactly mean only the
last fifty years. And they did throw in a couple of token blues and
quasi-jazz tunes as a feeble nod towards ecumenical karma. Bob, you
sound pretty damn parochial yourself if you think the only music
outside US/UK rock/pop is monophonic subsaharan chants.
But what I really wanna know is...WHO THE FUCK PUT "CANDLE IN THE
WIND" ON THIS FUCKING LIST????
|11.21.04 @ 3:05AM|#
I heard a guy play "Hey Joe" and "Little Wing" acoustic on a
subway in Paris in 1995.
Do you think ANYONE will play ANY eminem 30 years from now?
I quit buying Rolling Stone years ago - but, this is borderline
criminal.
"Smells like Teen Spirit" above "Hey Joe"... "Back in Black"...
wow. I'm sick.
|11.21.04 @ 3:14AM|#
Joe,
Some of us still remember Pretty Hate Machine fondly. Your comment
made me laugh so hard I cried. Can I use it as a signature on
emails, (at least the last two lines?) Few people I know will get
it either, but who cares?
Okay, so I'm done with pointing out how idiotic that list is. The
real question is how the few decent songs did get on it--for
example, how the heck did Pavement make it on that list?
|11.21.04 @ 3:45AM|#
I'm not too broken up over the list. No matter what list they
printed, people would complain. The best thing that's happened is
that you guys are arguing about music you feel strongly about and
talking about it. Personally, I think in a top 500 list, they're
always going to miss out on favorites.
As for Eminem and whether he's going to last is going to be
contingent on how big the rap/hip hop movement is going to be in 30
years. I don't see it going away, and hip hop is going to this
generation's equivalent of the older generation's classic rock.
Scary to think about, but hey, whatever happened to Elvis being
devil music?
|11.21.04 @ 5:34AM|#
Hummm... Eleven Dylan songs and the Dead nor Santana dont even appear. and the Beatles were good, but not that good (nearly five percent of the top 500 are beatles tracks)
|11.21.04 @ 7:06AM|#
Just because Stairway has been massively overplayed does not
mean it is any less of a song. It is their magnum opus.
Their magnum opus was the "Physical Grafitti" album, in my opinion
at least. Besides, "Whole Lotta Love" was the centerpiece song in
their concerts. Stairway to Heaven is a great song, but they did
dozens of great songs.
my favorite Zep song is How Many More Times, but I know that's
just a guilty pleasure
Heh, that makes two of us actually. Although I don't feel guilty
about liking it. I feel guilty about liking 2 Live Crew.
|11.21.04 @ 7:11AM|#
This is supposed to be "Rock and Roll" songs; true? or am I
missing something. How on earth does anybody define "Yesterday" as
R&R or for that matter any bloody thing by Eminem. Truth is
Rock disappeared after '89 or so with a few notable exceptions each
year, just to keep the flame burning. I was too disgusted to look
through 500 of these things but no doubt the Carpenters and Cat
Stephens made it in there too.
I've got nothing against hip hop, techno, rap etc. Quite enjoy a
lot of it; but it's not Rock and Roll. If you don't like the Baby
Boomer stuff that's quite ok too - different strokes for different
folks. However a lot of that stuff, including most of the early
Beatles is Rock; whether you guys like it or not.
Let's try it one other way. If you think Eminem (or whatever his
name is) is the greatest and the Beatles suck. Fine!. That means
that for you Eminem (whatever etc.) is a better entertainer than
the Beatles. However Eminem is not a better Rock act than the
Beatles because he doesn't Rock, he friggin well Raps. Now is that
clear, or do I have to explain this even more simply.
|11.21.04 @ 7:35AM|#
Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and oh yeah all of 80's heavy metal
Who else?
oh and, not for nuthin but--- RUSH
ONE Metallica song on the list...and it's ENTER SANDMAN?! Gaaahhh!
As if nothing existed before the "black album." (And ES isn't even
the best song on THAT record...)
And RUSH indeed! "Tom Sawyer" is a better song than 490 out of
those "top 500."
Just another reminder why I NEVER read Rolling Stone. Yeesh.
Strother Martin Fan|11.21.04 @ 7:43AM|#
Pardon me for saying something possibly controversial, but am I
the only one who thinks The Beatles are completely overrated? Don't
get me wrong, I think that a lot of their music ("Sgt. Peppers
Lonely Hearts Club Band" in particular) is wonderful, I'm just
saying - do they really deserve to be one of the greatest bands in
the history of the world? There are infinitely better groups out
there, most of which have already been covered on this
thread.
I'm not a big fan of rock (I'm more into film soundtracks, like
Ennio Morricone, Hans Zimmer, etc.), but if the song's good I'll
listen to it. I don't have a preference for band necessarily. But
this list sucks.
Uncle Mikey|11.21.04 @ 10:06AM|#
RS is fully focused on destroying what each of us remember as
the best part of Rock, having disgusted guitarists everywhere by
putting Jack White in the top 20 while relegating Eddie Van Halen
to the 70s somewhere. Among other crimes, that is.
Rolling Stone writers/editors have always considered themselves
stylesetters, not that they've succeeded (thank God), and will do
whatever they can to piss on your parade of musical memories.
That's their thing.
tony|11.21.04 @ 10:12AM|#
strother martin fan,
i agree totally with you. the beatles and RS mag are both
completely overrated and should have faded out in 1981.
|11.21.04 @ 10:16AM|#
I'm with Todd Fletcher, not one single Cocteau Twins song? Okay sure - rock opera isn't cool, but "Blue Bell Knoll" rocks.
|11.21.04 @ 10:22AM|#
"One" by U2 made the top 50? ohhhh yuck.
"Desire" would have been better. IMHO - If you can't wiggle your
fanny - it's not a good rock song.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.21.04 @ 10:55AM|#
Warren -
"White Ango Saxon Protestant Bacehlor � Hey, sports fan! Of course,
Waybill loses a lot of cred for appearing in Xanadu..." My favorite
B-side of all time is "Night People" on the back of the Tubes "Love
Bomb" album. Flat out one of the best rock suites I have ever
heard, with some of the most sophisticated and lyrical uses of
voice sampling and dub ever. Gotta go find it in vinyl. Hell, I
don't even know if any early Tubes is OUT on cd.
How the hell did I forget Rush? Good call, folks.
How the hell did I forget Pink Floyd? Jeez, I'm getting
senile...
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.21.04 @ 11:11AM|#
My three year old nephew just sang "Yellow Submarine" to me over the phone. Sounded a helluva lot better'n Ringo.
|11.21.04 @ 11:57AM|#
I consider myself a Hip-Hop Head, and I speak for many when I
say that there some great rap songs, but I dont think Eminem has
any of them. Rolling Stone and a lot of the mainstream media has an
irrational love for Eminem that can only be explained by his race.
Granted these mags also use racial pandering when celebrating some
black artists as tokens. However, its really digusting that Eminem
now represents rap, and people make judgment on him and the genre
based on each other. The two are mutually exclusive.
Most people I talk to who share similar tastes and an interest in
the genre would give Em props for his skills, but he has never done
great work. Hes good at wordplay, humor, and some other things,but
that doesnt make great songs. Like rock and other genres, most good
hip hop songs are album cuts that get no commercial radio play. To
me Emenem is really no different than the Backstreet Boys or
Britney Spears, Limp Bizkit or any of the numerous TRL house bands
of the last 5 years. They all have the same fan base, teenage girls
with little taste in music ( Dare I say like much of the Beatles
work?).
This is no secret of course as Em has said in lyrics if he were
black he would sell half ( probably much less, check the Soundcsans
for Royce Da 5'9 or Master Ace whose style Eminem bit) But this is
where I most think Rolling Stones proves to me they dont really
know shit about anything. He is just the white rapper who has
mainstream acceptance. And I dont think he sucks just because he's
a white rapper. I could list 20-30 white rappers with similar or
better skills and maybe a handful with better songs and albums. you
just wont find them on TRL/Rolling Stone.
|11.21.04 @ 12:01PM|#
Not to mention the whole fact that its supposed to be "Rock".
There are some rap groups with what I would consider for inclusion,
such as Public Enemy, Beasties and Run DMC, whose backing music was
hard rock. But not Eminem.
And yes, the Beatles are an overated boy band. Maybe they got
better later but they still are overrated.
Warren|11.21.04 @ 12:23PM|#
OK maybe not all these are list worthy, but is there any living
human being that thinks Dolly Parton's "Jolene" is surperior to the
everything ever pressed into vinal by the following???!!!
Iron Butterfly
Joe Walsh
Edgar Winter
Eddie Money
Emerson Lake and Palmer
Steve Winwood
Chicago
Blood Sweat and Tears
Doobie Brothers
And BTW since If anyone's mentioned it, I must have missed
it...
How about ---YES
Helllloooooo McFly! Anybody Home?! YES for christ sake
Sam|11.21.04 @ 12:47PM|#
Lists I'd like to see:
Best dance tunes.
Best dance tunes when drunk.
Best Drivin' tunes.
Best headphones listenin'.
Best monster system tunes.
Best listening when stoned.
Best listening when stoned on a different night.
Best listening when standing in the kitchen at a party so you can
talk with someone.
Sam|11.21.04 @ 12:53PM|#
I've noticed about The Doors that they had a synergy that was
lost when JM died.
Jim's vocal range was rather limited so they had to produce tunes
that accomodated that limitation which may explain why the
keyboarding of RM was so dynamic.
Certainly R&R is white music testified by the enormous
proportion of white performers and audience, but Hendrix is much
revered in the R&R audience and we don't give a shit what his
color was. And black music of the Motown/Atlantic era was a much
enjoyed by whites as blacks, as I recall. Lots of good dancin'
music.
Sam|11.21.04 @ 12:59PM|#
My brother went to see the Stones at JFK stadium (long ago) and
he came back raving about Stevie Wonder (the lead in), as did a red
neck friend of mine.
Ooh, another best of list: best live performers.
I went to see Jethro Tull in D.C. (also a long time ago) and the
lead act was Uriah Heep.
Heep started off with a bungh of new stuff that the audience just
didn't react to. The band conferred a bit and spent the rest of
their stage time performing their older stuff and rocked so good
that the audience was up and cheering after a few tunes.
BTW, Jethro Tull seemed to rock harder live than in their
albums.
|11.21.04 @ 1:24PM|#
I gave up after the first 5.
Why?
Motown ain't rock'n'roll. Marvin Gaye and Aretha Franklin are
superb musicians, and Motown is definitely one of the most
important genres(and best) of the 60's, but IT AIN"T
ROCK'N'ROLL!
And Imagine in the top 3? And 'Like a Rolling Stone'? Satisfaction
does belong there, but it's the only one.
Lawrence Person|11.21.04 @ 2:12PM|#
An short list of songs missing from their list:
Tori Amos: Little Earthquakes (at the least), Pretty Good
Year
Adrian Belew & David Bowie: Pretty Pink Rose
Big Head Todd and the Monsters: Bittersweet
Dead Kennedys: Holiday in Cambodia
Devo: Jocko Homo
Filter: Hey Man Nice Shot
Peter Gabriel: Biko (at the very frigging least), Not One of Us, I
Have the Touch
Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (at the least)
Jethro Tull: Aqualung (at the least)
King Crimson: Discipline (at the least), Vrooom
Nine Inch Nails: Closer and Head Like a Hole
OMD: Genetic Engineering
REM: It's the end of the world as we know it (and I feel
fine)
Paul Simon: The Obvious Child (and I'd pick The Boy in the Bubble
over Graceland)
Talking Heads: Burning Down the House (at the very least), Road to
Nowhere
U2: Bad
Yes: Starship Troopers
Warren Zevon: Werewolves of London (at the very least), Angel
Dressed in Black
|11.21.04 @ 3:33PM|#
FWIW:
I was born in 1942, played from the mid-50's through the early 70's
and so was kind of "present at the creation." Reading the List and
the comments here I see what I would expect: any listing of this
kind is very subjective, depending on your own life and experience,
and I would suggest that everyone has their own, perfectly valid,
list of the Top Songs.
That said, I will comment that, from the perspective of someone who
has heard it all, the early music was terribly important, because
at that time it was new to us. For example, you had to have been
there when Heartbreak Hotel came out; had to have listened to the
truly awful flat and unbelievably bland pop that most of us heard
in the 40's and 50's, to have any appreciation for the impact that
Elvis had. Remember that virtually no one outside of the deep south
and some urban areas had ever heard the blues. The impact of the
raw emotion of that couple of minutes on people who had never
experienced it is impossible to describe, but I remember being
moved in a way I had never experienced before (I was 14). It is a
trite expression these days, but the advent of Rock in the mid-50's
was truly an Epiphany for many people. Over the next few years I
sought out that music, and found it in some strange and far away
places: WKBW and George "Hound Dog" Lorenz in Buffalo, NY; the GOO
on WWVA; a station in Chicago whose call letters and DJ's I cannot
remember anymore. I have found myself wishing, a number of times
over the years, when trying to explain this period to others,
including my son, that I could go back to an evening in 1958 with a
decent tape recorder for just a few hours and return with the
music. It would sound terribly quaint today, and you would probably
think I'm nuts, but so be it. You see, it really wasn't Rock that I
was hearing, it was American Music. Raw and primitive, all emotion
and not filtered through anyone's idea of what would sell. And it
really defies categorization. If you can, sit down sometime and
listen to Hank Williams, Elvis, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker,
Arthur Crudup, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, BB King,
Howlin' Wolf, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Mama Thronton, Bessie
Smith all at once and try to really tell them apart. You can't.
Emotion is a universal language. There really is no Rock, just the
different directions which American music has taken over the years,
including the transition it has made to other countries.
For those of you who are younger, the most important music to you
is the music that first moved you, whether in the 60's or the 90's.
It is all important, because it becomes a part of what you are. So
keep your own list of your music and love it. Music has been a
foundation of my life, and my life has been infinitely richer for
it, and I wish the same for everyone. And I cannot even begin to
count the number of times that someone else's favorite artist has
become one of mine and
so,a final thought: maybe everyone who has the interest should post
their own list of their Greatest Songs, and then everyone should
listen to everybody else's list. I bet we would all discover some
great songs and artists that we weren't aware of.
Mike Hughes (my real name)
|11.21.04 @ 3:43PM|#
My dad has cooler taste in music then Rolling Stone. What a festival of suck. And boring, geez, I mean it the most boring collection of overplayed oldies I could imagine in my wost nightmares. No replacements, no Husker Du -- dudes, the 80's happened. And so did the 90s. Oh, but there's Eminiem, so you know they're still "hip" and "cool" and "with it." Way to go, daddy-oes, keep up that krazy rhythm!
|11.21.04 @ 5:05PM|#
Ah, Warren, the pre-Michael McDonald Doobs had some good stuff.
Emerson Lake & Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery was worth buying
just for the album art and the title. Early Chicago successfully
melded big band with rock, nobody had done that before. Later
Chicago after Terry Kath did the big stupid and shot himself lacked
something. Next I suppose yer going to tell me you don't like Jimmy
Buffet. :-)
Mike Hughes: Nice piece--enjoyed reading it. Speaking of trying
other people's favorites just last week I heard a version of All
Along the Watchtower that knocked me out. Clapton and Kravitz.
Never would have heard it because I'm not a Kravitz fan but someone
played it for me.
And Zep's greatest song ever was Good Rockin' Tonight. Yeah, I
know, that was a solo effort and not Zep at all. And at the other
end of the spectrum is Wynonnie Harris original version of the same
tune from somewhere around 1949. Not on the RS list either though
it did technically predate rock and roll.
|11.21.04 @ 5:07PM|#
so we've got our age schisms, our taste schisms and all that. i
think they use lists like this as an excuse to have fun in the
office by annoying the fuck out of each other.
i think it's all about what you're doing when you run across a
piece of music. i love music more now than i did when i was 17.
however, i really would have liked to see:
fugazi
swans
godspeed you black emperor!
godflesh
slayer
or anything heavy, really. anything at all.
whiter shade of pale grabs me on the ass though. dunno why. it's
really insane and so overly hammondy. makes me want to drink
beer.
|11.21.04 @ 5:19PM|#
JonahG is right about Yesterday, which is a great song,
but not a ROCK song. The same goes for Jolene, a great
country song. This list reminds me why Casey Kasem always used to
refer to "the most Xish song of the rock era," because so many Top
40 hits continued to be from other genres, even through the 60's
and 70's.
As for rap, some songs contain raps, but many raps are not "songs"
at all, because they have no melody! Not that
there is anything wrong with that, but spoken-word poetry
isn't music, even if it is presented with a musical backing. If you
want to test if a rap is also a great song, see if you can
hum a few bars of it. Add to that the fact that most
groups don't craft their own backing music, but sample others'
work, and they just don't qualify. Still, the chorus of Public
Enemy's 911 Is A Joke is a tasmanian gorilla of a hook,
and tremendously singable. "500 Best Raps" should be a list of its
own. Would Charlie Daniels Band's Uneasy Rider belong on
it? (Rap ~= Talking Blues?)
Kevin
|11.21.04 @ 5:35PM|#
...but spoken-word poetry isn't music.... - Me, going a
bridge too far.
OK, something rhythmic can be considered music, even if it has no
melody, but it is only a "song" in the poetic sense. And let's not
forget to purge "folk" from the list, along with jazz and rap.
Jump, R&B, rock n' roll, rockabilly and blues may be too
twisted up with each other for such a separation, though.
As for age-bias, SF fan Peter Graham* said it best: The Golden Age
of Science Fiction is 13. One is always going to have fond memories
of the music that first grabbed you when you first started to form
your own opinions.
Kevin
* as popularized by Terry Carr.
Cletus Nelson|11.21.04 @ 6:02PM|#
What a pathetic exercise in baby-boomer
self-glorification.
MC5, Sabbath, Motorhead, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Misfits, I could
go on for days...
Who wrote the wrote the list? Jan Wiener and his primal scream
therapist?
|11.22.04 @ 12:23AM|#
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant � Ringo Starr?
"I'm clean and sober.
I still own me own songs.
I'm shagging Barbara Bach.
Nobody's trying to kill me.
And people say I'm the dumb Beatle..."
|11.22.04 @ 12:44AM|#
huh, I guess is is top 500 of all time. This brings us then to
the question - is a cantanta a song? But really, with Rolling
Stone, I just kinda guessed that what they actually meant was "top
500 popular songs from the last 50 years." Kinda like code.
And when I picked "sub-saharan chants" as an example of music
outside the US/UK, I figured it was so off the wall that no one
could really think that I was dismissin *all* music outside US/UK.
I guess if you're too parochial to get that...
|11.22.04 @ 1:10AM|#
The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth
Edition. 2000. @
http://www.bartleby.com/61/8/S0560800.html
song
NOUN: 1. Music a. A brief composition written or adapted for
singing. b. The act or art of singing: broke into song. 2. A
distinctive or characteristic sound made by an animal, such as a
bird or an insect. 3a. Poetry; verse. b. A lyric poem or
ballad.
A cantata might not be brief enough to be a song, though a
particular selection could be so considered. Your raps might
qualify as 3a, but so would The Song of Hiawatha.
Of course, I may be under- or over-medicated.
Kevin
|11.22.04 @ 2:22AM|#
Bob, what have you got against subsaharan chants, huh? You're not some kind of racist, are you?
|11.22.04 @ 4:00AM|#
Actually, in the early 80's, a punk rock/new wave radio DJ I
listened to regularly played cuts by the "Bone Men of Burundi."
Google has nothing, this is all from memory. People like David
Byrne are pretty honest about where they make their musicological
raids, aren't they? There's nothing so hip as ignoring your own
country's pop music in favor of that from far away, in languages
you don't speak, right? :)
Kevin
DaveInBigD|11.22.04 @ 4:31AM|#
~20 Beatles tracks, but they only have room for ONE grunge act? That was an important trend in rock music, and if Nirvana was the first name, then Pearl Jam and STP were right there behind them. You'd think that Even Flow or Alive or maybe even Blackhole Sun or Interstate Love Song might have made the cut. I'd say that as many people I went to college with sung along to Alive as to Losing My Religion (and REM had a lot better songs than that).
|11.22.04 @ 6:23AM|#
Does a "Greatest" list that includes 500 entries betray a
certain level of indecisiveness? I say it does.
And how is it that:
A. There is only one entry for Patti Smith
and
B. Said entry is "Dancing Barefoot"?
I mean, WTF!
|11.22.04 @ 6:32AM|#
Is there some Reason/Rolling Stone conspiracy? I would not think
so. however there should be some kind of explanation why when I
tried to post, it said "You are not allowed to post comments"
The ONLY posts I have made lately appaer in this subject and were a
little critical about Rolling Stone. If anyone sees why I would be
BANNED from posting here based on my above comments please
enlighten me. Objreason at aol dot com
|11.22.04 @ 7:10AM|#
Some mighty entertaining reading here. :D
I had a few notes of just stuff I saw and felt like responding
to.
"And speaking of Ewwwwwwwwwwww, neither Rocket Man or Do You Think
I'm Sexy are on the HD"
I have both. Granted, both are covers. The Rocket Man cover is the
infamous version done by William Shatner. Priceless.
The Do Ya Think I'm Sexy cover is done by RevCo. Better than the
original methinks.
"Plus the omission of "Gin 'n Juice." Come on. To Rolling Stone: I
don't love you hos, I'm out the do'."
Another cover tune I have. The country/hillbilly version done by
the Gourds. Out-freakin-standing.
"Another great moment in crusty music criticism: "I feel like a
Leonard Cohen record. I won't say anything because no one listens
to me anyway.""
Heh heh, can't stand him, but have a tremendous cover of Famous
Blue Raincoat by Jared Louche.
I suppose the most important list to anyone is the list of albums
that shaped your perceptions. It's kind of in line with what the
gentleman above said about Hound Dog, hearing something that causes
an epiphany for you.
There've been a lot of them, but the one that stands out in my mind
at the moment was truly appreciating Eric Clapton for the first
time. It was just after he'd released a blues album, around 1994 or
so. I was in tech school in the Air Force at the time. The on base
rec center was closing, but a friend and I convinced the lady in
charge to let us stay until SNL was over.
Well, the end of the show was coming up, and as usual, the last
thing is the musical guest. It was Clapton, and he played a song
called 5 Long Years.
My roomie and I sat there stunned for a few minutes as it was one
of those times where you just get floored by hearing someone's
musical ability. We both went and picked up the album the next day
as a result.
Can't think of the name of the album at the moment, but thinking
about it now, I'll need to listen to it when I get home.
The White Anglo Saxon Protesta|11.22.04 @ 9:47AM|#
Sam - "'ve noticed about The Doors that they had a synergy that
was lost when JM died. Jim's vocal range was rather limited so they
had to produce tunes that accomodated that limitation which may
explain why the keyboarding of RM was so dynamic."
Sam that "limited vocal range" was owing to the fact that the man
was a BARITONE, and one of the few truly masculine voices in rock.
Warren Zevon fits in that category, also Ian Anderson of Jethro
Tull (although he admittedly abused his voice early on and is
paying for it in his dotage. I heard them live here in Des Moines
this month. The acoustic/instrumental work was fabulous. The vocals
sounded like a lounge crooner trying to rock out.
Lower ranges have been more popular with metalheads of late, but
most of it is gutteral growling, not so much a lowering of the
acceptable vocal range.
Rock's taste for boy sopranos has always puzzled me.
|11.22.04 @ 10:39AM|#
kev to the rob: i'm saying you're high or not high enough
because most, if not all hip hop, made in the past 20 years has a
melody.
the dictionary definition of music is flat out retarded, however.
music is.
|11.22.04 @ 10:42AM|#
"What I can't figure is why "Imagine" is on the list at all,
much less at #3."
I agree, it makes absolutely no sense, compounded by the fact that
the first three or four Beatles tunes that follow are Mcartney
tunes. Paul was a genius, but he was obsessed with writing snappy
pop tunes. John was a master genius, and a true musician. Case in
point: "Yesterday" vs. "Rain".
"Three Pink Floyds in the 300s: two from "The Wall" and the title
track from "Wish You Were Here", but not one single song from "Dark
Side of the Moon"?! Did I miss it? Please tell me I did..."
This proves that the people who made up this list have absolutely
no fucking clue. I'm a huge Floyd head, but "The Wall" was clearly
an overproduced, bombastic shrine to Waters' ego. He even admitted
it. "Dark Side"? No true rock collection exists without it, even
though I personally think "WYWH" is a better album.
"Motown ain't rock'n'roll. Marvin Gaye and Aretha Franklin are
superb musicians, and Motown is definitely one of the most
important genres(and best) of the 60's, but IT AIN"T
ROCK'N'ROLL!"
This all about political correctness. They can't have the entire
top ten filled with pasty limeys, even though, in my opinion, it's
the way it should be, save Hendrix.
|11.22.04 @ 10:43AM|#
It's always tough to put together a list like this, but of the
three greatest vocal performances in rock history - Since I Been
Loving You didn't make it at all, and Whipping Post and Piece of My
Heart are in the high 300s. That seems wrong.
Ultimatly, though, you have to dismiss this list for one reason -
no Grateful Dead at all. Scarlet Begonias is not as good as I
Believe I Can Fly? Really? Dylan is at #1, but there is no Dead.
That's a real conundrum.
Ah Rolling Stone... you know how to make me laugh.
|11.22.04 @ 11:35AM|#
I want to kill this thread before Stevo does. I'm a geezer and
therefore perfectly qualified to offer my useless opinions.
1. Desolation Row is my favorite tune but it isn't Rock &
Roll.
2. Blue Suede Shoes and I Want to Hold Your Hand Should lead the
list.
3. What? No Traffic. Aw, come on!
|11.22.04 @ 11:52AM|#
I think it's safe to say that magazines put out lists such as these just to give folks something to talk about to a buzz so folks will buy the magazine. I seriously doubt more than 2 hours was spent determining who should be on the list and in what order. I doubt any list anywhere such as 'greatest albums" "greatest books", 'greatest piece of ass' is really thought of as serious by those who came up with it. so no real need to complain about the list, it's just all marketing BS.
|11.22.04 @ 12:33PM|#
"People like David Byrne are..." just another example of The Man
ripping off the hard work and real genius of People of Color.
"There's nothing so hip as ignoring your own country's pop music in
favor of that from far away, in languages you don't speak,
right?"
I hope you're not some kind of racist. Are you?
|11.22.04 @ 12:53PM|#
Random comments:
No Rock and Roll by LZ? Advanced retardation.
No Green River by CCR? What next, Stephen Foster was just
a product of the Matrix?
The Lovin' Spoonful - nice to see recognition of a severely
underappreciated band.
Bizarre Love Triangle but no Blue Monday?
Yooookay...
Wish You Were Here and Comfortably Numb are the
*same* *damn* *song*. Meanwhile, DSOTM gets *bupkis*. The Gods of
Rock are displeased.
God Only Know by the Beach Boys at #25 - excellent catch,
guys. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. One of the most
moving rock and roll songs ever recorded.
Marquee Moon by Television. The quintessential rock critic
choice. Tom Verlaine's voice sounds like that of a parrot being
shorn of its wings without the benefit of anesthesia.
Da Ya Think I'm Sexy
Bitter Sweet Symphony
Dancing Queen
Why not Afternoon Delight, huh? HUH!? Pussies, I tells
ya...
Neil Young. After The Gold Rush. Nothing off of. Crime against
humanity.
Whipping Post - excellent choice.
One Way Out - um, where the hell is it??
Imagine.
Imagine?
effin IMAGINE?!?
The drug-induced noodlings of a smelly hippy?
A loose screw saluting his Marxist buddies?
Yoko's bitch and his Magical Naivity Tour?
And to think he was soooo sexy before the coke-bottle glasses and
the Tarzan coiffure. And the nudity. Nude isn't always sexy, ya
know...
|11.22.04 @ 1:49PM|#
....most, if not all hip hop, made in the past 20 years has
a melody. -dhex
d to the hex: Even I, suburbs-raised whiteboy that I am, know that
[hip hop > rap ]. Plenty of hip hop is melodic. The Fugees and
Arrested Development come immediately to mind. But many raps have
no connection to an original melody. Thought experiment: think of a
favorite rap, and try to sing it without any
accompaniment. You might be able to copy the toaster's rhythm,
phrasing, intonation, hell - his accent. If you are singing you
will be recreating notes, in a particular sequence. Faith Evans
crooning a Police tune behind the rhyme doesn't count.
I hope you're not some kind of racist. Are you? - Stop
Racism Now
Is that your sarcasm font? I point out the tendency of art-rockers
to appropriate music from other cultures and I get accused of
possible racism? BTW, I quite like David Byrne, and the Expanded
Heads' Remain In Light tour may have been the best show I
ever saw live. It is just true that there is an "I can find music
to tout more obscure than you can" meme among truly hip
people.
Kevin
Sam|11.22.04 @ 2:52PM|#
Sam that "limited vocal range" was owing to the fact that the
man was a BARITONE, and one of the few truly masculine voices in
rock.
Being a baritone myself (I sang in the choir for many years) and
having lost some of my range in the past ten years, even I have
more vocal range than Jim Morrison did. I know this from countless
listenings and singing of Doors tunes. The very first album I
bought (long ago) was "The doors". And I bought most of their other
albums over the years.
For examples of significant vocal range, Harry Nilsson and Chris
Isaac come to mind.
|11.22.04 @ 3:30PM|#
"But many raps have no connection to an original melody."
? ? ?
again i must ask
? ? ?
then again, my favorite producer of all time is pete rock.
i mean, i see what you're saying, i guess, but most of my favorite
songs can't be hummed. i'll chalk this up to generational/taste
thingies.
|11.22.04 @ 4:05PM|#
i'm saying you're high or not high enough because most, if
not all hip hop, made in the past 20 years has a melody.
A melody taken from a different song recorded during the previous
20 years -- but a melody nevertheless. :)
|11.22.04 @ 4:35PM|#
I'm w/ JDM. How can there not be a single Grateful Dead song on the list? Let's get over our prejudices and just admit that Sugar Magnolia, Uncle John's Band, and Scarlet Begonias are among the 500 best RnR songs. Nice to see Cortez the Killer on there though...
|11.22.04 @ 5:28PM|#
Cherry picking ridiculous choices out of lists like these isn't
really worth it - one man's trash is another's treasure - and all
that.
But can I assume that everyone in the entire world, other than the
5 people who made this list, would guffaw at the inclusion
of:
#476 Foreigner - I want to know what Love is
I'm just, ... speechless. Especially since, if you just have to
include Foreigner, "Jukebox Hero" is the obvious choice.
|11.22.04 @ 5:50PM|#
I just thank the good lord that they didn't put any Journey on
this list. That shit was absolutely horrible.
I also have to concur with whoever commented on the lack of Tom
Waits - it's a travesty, but not a terribly surprising one. I would
have started with Tom Traubert's Blues, Step Right Up, possibly Ol'
55, maybe a little Jersey Girl.... I could go on all night, so I'll
stop now.
|11.22.04 @ 7:18PM|#
What? No "Puff the Magic Dragon"? Outrageous!
And couldn't they have found a spot on that list (preferably in the
top 100) for something by Raffi? Harmonic and rhythmic subtlety is
so overrated anyway.
drf|11.22.04 @ 7:25PM|#
"that's entertainment" by the jam is good, but there are others
that might be better suited.
as for the 80s and 90s, you have some good music, but it doesn't
get airtime, so try out henry rollins's show "harmony in my head",
a nice call out to the buzzcocks. it's findable through
google.
and for anybody who references "generation X", it was coined in the
early 70s, and was a decent punk band (billy idol's band) in the
late 70s. if you like early punk, i'd recommend that.
new york dolls (267). oh yeah!
(i'd substitute out "dog" and put "1969" by the stooges)
and since i hate u2 about as much as "rocket man", it's very
upsetting to see such representation.
for sheer balls i'd have nick cave's "from her to eternity" or
"mercy seat", of which johnny cash did an okay remake.
cheers,
drf
|11.22.04 @ 9:05PM|#
What's with all y'all hatin on Elton John?
And y'all Journey haters know that "More Than a Feeling" is the
best song to snort coke off a uptown hooker's back to! So suck
it.
|11.22.04 @ 9:56PM|#
You mean "More Than A Feeling" the Boston song, or am I missing a reference here?
|11.22.04 @ 10:23PM|#
No Supremes!!?? What the **CK (HECK)? Are you RS people commies?
Why do you hate us?
And speaking of girl groups...They had wonderful songs like, "Cruel
Summer", "Robert DeNiro's Waiting", and "Venus".......It's
BANANARAMA!!!
http://christian-mclaughlin.com/website/images/bananarama.jpg
http://perso.wanadoo.es/musica80s/portadas/Bananarama.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/features/wallpaper/images/1024/bananarama.jpg
http://www.buzzstuff.net/archives/bananarama.jpg
Wow, were they cute or what? One of my fave from the New Wave. And
here's a little clue for you all, the Walrus is Paul....No. Check
out an early one from Bananarama called "Really Saying Something"
it features Fun Boy Three and the video is strong too. Great
tune.
|11.22.04 @ 11:21PM|#
Actually, the rip is a bit unfair -- it isn't us geezers that produced a list in which the top pick as well as many other top cuts are by Bob Dylan -- it's geezer academics! Do you know anyone who would pick "Like a Rolling Stone" as the top song of all time, except someone with a PhD in something arcane, someone who thinks they like music but has no sense of rhythm? I think historians of entertainment will see this list as the event which marked the demise of Rolling Stone -- I mean, how can anyone take it seriously any more?
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