Small Farmers Revolt Over FDA's Proposed Food Safety Rules

Another government failure of big government.

(Page 2 of 2)

In Maine, farmers told FDA officials that proposed regulations would "impose onerous regulations on small Maine farms with no history of making people sick."

In Maryland, advocates argue the FSMA could spell doom for farmers markets.

And Washington State farmers echoed those on the East Coast.

Newspaper editorial boards around the country have also taken note. Many have been increasingly vocal in recent weeks in warning about dire consequences for small farmers under the proposed FSMA regulations.

The Kennebec (ME) Journal editorial board argued that the proposed FSMA regulations "would put undue strain on small businesses that have been a Maine success story in the last decade."

The editors of the Yakima (WA) Herald, meanwhile, warn that provisions requiring farmers "to test all irrigation water before it touches the surface of any fruit" could spell doom for the state's tree fruit farmers.

They note that while the proposed rules may make sense for fruits grown at ground level (like melons), the rules would force apple farmers and others to purify irrigation water at great expense and with little or no health benefits for consumers.

The Herald's editors point out the likely unintended consequences of adopting such a rule: It "could push smaller family growers out of the industry [and force them to] shift to other crops that are cooked or processed--potatoes and asparagus come to mind--which could alter the market dynamics of those commodities."

Michael Taylor, who heads the FDA's food safety efforts and who was at the Washington State hearing, told a local farmer who urged the FDA not to further burden him and his business not to worry.

“Rest assured, what you’re saying is being heard,” said Taylor.

But Taylor's I'm-from-the-government-and-I'm-here-to-help routine isn't convincing small farmers and their allies.

"The FDA’s proposed FSMA rules would impose significant expenses and paperwork burdens on farmers and food producers," says Judith McGeary, executive director of the Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance, by email.

"The implementation of the Food Safety Modernization Act, through its burdensome regulatory scheme, will result in the local food system losing market share to corporate giants producing inferior quality food," says Pete Kennedy, head of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, also by email.

Any agricultural law should favor no particular size of farm and should allow farmers of all sizes to compete with each other for market share. The proposed Food Safety Modernization Act regulations will impose costly and inapt new requirements on small farmers.

Sen. Tester claims to have "won" a victory for small farmers. But right now it looks as if his win may yield nothing more than a bitter harvest.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I assume the FDA is like any other federal regulatory agency, full of bureaucrats enacting and enforcing regulations designed to protect a favored group by punishing its competitors.

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    That's the cover story. The real story is as old as bureaucracy itself: to expend the bureaucracy. Crushing competitors is just the bait used to attract suckers who will be the crushees next cycle.

  • Aloysious||

    You forgot the adjectives 'virtuous' and 'noble' and 'steadfast' in describing our bureaucratic overlords.

    /sarc

  • DJF||

    I thought the purpose was “To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.”

  • Sheriff Bart||

    Has any administration embraced tyranny through regulation as ineptly and thoroughly as this one? I have never seen liberty disappear so fast under the thumb of a president.

    Libertarians in general, and Rand Paul in particular, are the only hope for this country in the near future.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Has any administration embraced tyranny through regulation as ineptly and thoroughly as this one?

    FDR comes to mind. What I think has changed is that the nation has been gradually conditioned to accept top down control as the natural way of things. It seems that there is an subconscious acceptance that there is a strata of society with the natural right to set the rules, make the decisions, etc. It seems to come through when I hear people all the time talking about "They."

    "They" made me wait at the DMV for four hours. "They" had my kid on this particular medicine. "They" shouldn't let this or that happen. Rather than a specific individual or organization so many people seem to articulate a belief that, even when disagreed with, the "They" caste has a right and proper first claim to the way that anything should be, and the person speaking has a duty to abide by the dictates of "They," at least at first, as a default state of being.

    It's sick.

  • Ted S.||

    "They" shouldn't let this or that happen.

    Every time I hear somebody say, "There ought to be a law", my immediate response is, "Perhaps there ought not be a law."

  • BakedPenguin||

    Give them a copy of Three Felonies a Day and reply "there probably already is."

  • RBS||

  • Ted S.||

    Tennis players take bogus injury timeouts all the time to try to stop their opponents' momentum.

  • Number 2||

    Once again, the Regulatory State saves The People from those Kruel Korporations that would otherwise exploit them.

    After all, what makes farmers think they know more about farming than a group of overpaid lawyers and bureaucrats who graduated from elite universities?

  • crashland||

    Yeah and they even have dirt under their finger nails! How can somebody with dirt under their nails know anything about keeping our food safe? That job requires lawyers and bureaucrats that have never even visited a farm. You have to remain above the dirt of actual work to actually know anything useful.

  • SForza||

    I have a law degree from an elite university, and dealing with lawyers and regulators (with similar degrees from similar universities) on a daily basis is why I got out of the legal industry, and decided to farm instead. Now if they would kindly keep their top-down groupthink away from my land, I would appreciate that.

  • SweatingGin||

    NSA goes after parody shirt.

    What impact will this have on the Federal Boobie Inspector shirts?

  • Atanarjuat||

    Fucking dumbasses. Any press is good press*. Unless their goal was for him to sell 10x as many shirts as he would have otherwise. I think I'm going to buy one now.

    *Just ask Miley Cyrus and every other entertainer who did something slightly more shocking than their predecessor.

  • Atanarjuat||

    So I bought one, even though I usually hate t-shirts with a giant logo in the center of the chest. Cuz fuck the NSA, that's why.

    Ben Swann did a little piece on the issue, which is embedded on their site. Although the t-shirt is protected as parody, the NSA actually committed copyright infringement when it stole the PRISM logo from some guy.

  • Rrabbit||

    Should be easy to work around that. Say, create a fake NSA logo on which the Eagle weeps, and the upper half of the circle reads "National Stati Agency".

  • ||

    The NSA seal is protected by Public Law 86-36, which states that it is not permitted for “…any person to use the initials ‘NSA,’ the words ‘National Security Agency’ and the NSA seal without first acquiring written permission from the Director of NSA.”

    There are a lot of people looking for No Strings Attached fun that should be notified of their potential infringement.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Old McDonald was regulated to death, FD-FDA, lol

    plowfarmerslandwithsalt.com

  • Acosmist||

    Never stop making these. Wonderful.

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    Honestly, I find most Americans to be idiots on this issue. They don't like being hassled by government regulation, but they truly believe that the ONLY thing keeping them from eating poisonous food is the many layers of govt. "protection."

    The worst are the people who rant against GMOs and "corporate food." It never occurs to these brain merchants that the very regulations they support (or the politicians they support who push these regulations) make local, organic, and farmer food more difficult.

    Let the masses have what they've asked for: if you want food you get it from a truck that has driven a thousand miles. If you eat something from a local farmer you are putting every child in America in danger. You should receive a visit from one of those raw milk swat teams. This is the logic of food regulation.

    Stupid, stupid country...

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    Sorry - I'm kind of a fascist libertarian before I've had my coffee.

    Shade-grown organic coffee. The bean pickers were paid the average wage of a software engineer.

    I can only afford half a cup, but man do I feel good about myself!

  • BakedPenguin||

    McDonald's around here are having a sale on iced coffee - $1 for a medium.

    Their slogan is "now that's a fair trade!"

  • Atanarjuat||

    they truly believe that the ONLY thing keeping them from eating poisonous food is the many layers of govt. "protection."

    It's amazing how many people accept this as fact, despite the monthly news story of lettuce being recalled for e-coli or whatever.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Duh, that just proves that we need more regulations.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    But..but...but...China!

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    The stupidity doesn't stop there. Obviously, Obamacare is stirring up a lot of things in the medical field. I am shocked when I see on forums for providers like PAs, NPs, and MDs responding to those that want less government intervention that they are kooks because without the government everyone would be a quack prescribing snake oil.
    Actually, the private sector regulates the profession very well. Providers don't take state tests to become a provider, they take the exam established by the accreditation group, ditto for the school they attend. It would be great if the boards were given more autonomy beyond education, but it seems that those sheeple providers don't like that idea because that's now the way they are conditioned to working in.

  • Nazdrakke||

    OT: Editorial at WaPo asserts sex between a 49 year old teacher and a 14 year old student should not be a crime.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Oh, God, she hits all the buttons: the need for "dialogue," blah blah "nuance," the failings of "our society," sexually mature teen girls, yada yada.

    And instead of prosecuting these teachers, just kick them off the job until the school district thinks they're rehabilitated. (Gosh, where have I heard that before?)

    Where were idiots like this when the Church was getting (justifiably) sued? It's getting to the point where the only people who remain horrified by the Church sex scandals are faithful Catholics and defenders of traditional sexual morality - morons like this writer are promoting a climate where sex between adults and children is simply the next frontier of the Sexual Revolution.

  • Fluffy||

    Actually, I think the Church was justifiably sued in certain situations and not justifiably sued in others.

    There were pedophile priests who were actual pedophiles, and were fucking 8 year old kids whose parents were stupid enough to trust them in their care.

    But then there were a lot of cases of priests having sex with 16 year old kids who were gay and who fucked the first adult that came along that they kinda sorta figured out wouldn't punish them for being gay. And I don't consider those kids abused any more than I would consider myself abused if some chick decided to fuck me when I was 16.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Well, here's my chance to be harsher on the Church than another H&R commenter.

    An adult who fornicates with/sodomizes a child is bad enough, but abusing a position of trust, even with the immature child's "consent," is beyond nasty. It would even be wrong for an adult in a position of trust to have an affair with another *adult.* If the "affair" is with a child, when the child is simply too immature to judge properly, and when the adults in his or her life are supposed to safeguard their innocence, not violate it, then it's extra wrong.

    Plus there's the *sacrilege* angle - priests aren't supposed to have sex - unless in the Eastern Catholic Church, where (under some interpretations) they can have sex with their wives. Their bodies are consecrated to the Lord. Using their bodies to have illicit sex is like beating someone over the head with a consecrated vessel.

    I do not hesitate to say that the guilty priest, if he dies unrepentant, will rightly be cast into the pit, "where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."

  • Fluffy||

    I can't speak to the sacrilege angle.

    There's no tort for sacrilege, so that issue should be irrelevant to the Church getting sued.

    And here's the problem, to me, with the "position of trust" angle: it completely falls apart as soon as you consider the situation from the perspective of the younger actor, or the "trustor", I guess.

    I always start by putting myself in the position of the trustor, because I know my own mental and emotional state better than I will ever know any other else's, so it's the logical way to begin the examination.

    So the question becomes, "If I, personally, had sex with a person in a 'position of trust' when I was 16, would it have been abuse?" And the answer to that is always No.

    If there had been some MILF teacher or shrink or employer or whatever around who wanted to let me fuck them when I was 16, I would have said, "YEE HAW!" I would not have been being exploited or misled or abused or what have you. I would have been the exploiter. I would have been taking advantage of them.

    Maybe it's different for women, but I can't see how any man can claim abuse in such a situation with a straight face.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "If there had been some MILF teacher or shrink or employer or whatever around who wanted to let me fuck them when I was 16, I would have said, "YEE HAW!""

    In my view, that's *exactly* why the teacher, shrink, etc. should *not* have sex with the teenage you. You would not have been at an age where you could make good choices. The adult authority figure would be teaching you that fornication/sodomy was OK, rather than trying to teaching you to respect your sexuality and use it properly.

  • Fluffy||

    The adult authority figure would be teaching you that fornication/sodomy was OK

    Right, but that shouldn't create legal liability for damages.

    The damages angle is predicated on the (somewhat absurd) notion that profound psychological damage would have been inflicted on me by a horrible betrayal of my trust, blah blah blahdy blah blah.

    But "learning that fornication is OK" can't possibly be that harm, because I can believe that fornication is OK all I want and nobody can say fucking shit about it. If it's not an actionable harm for me to reach that conclusion as an adult, it can't possibly be an actionable harm for me to reach that conclusion at 16.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "But "learning that fornication is OK" can't possibly be that harm, because I can believe that fornication is OK all I want and nobody can say fucking shit about it. If it's not an actionable harm for me to reach that conclusion as an adult, it can't possibly be an actionable harm for me to reach that conclusion at 16."

    I disagree. If you reach that conclusion as an adult, you can't sue anyone (except yourself). But if an adult authority figure who should know better, through their misconduct, teaches you (as minor) that it's OK, then yes, that's an injury for which you should be able to sue.

    Of course, this presupposes that it's injurious to make a minor predisposed to fornication/sodomy - which I believe.

  • Fluffy||

    I disagree. If you reach that conclusion as an adult, you can't sue anyone (except yourself). But if an adult authority figure who should know better, through their misconduct, teaches you (as minor) that it's OK, then yes, that's an injury for which you should be able to sue.

    I don't think you understand what an actionable harm is. Or what an injury is.

    It's like arguing that it's injurious for someone to learn to be a Democrat.

    It can't possibly be injurious because it's an issue on which the government is not allowed to have an opinion.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    There is no longstanding, consistent tradition on the evil of being a Democrat. The only time being a Democrat was illegal was in 1798 (Sedition Act), and they gave that up pretty quickly.

    Contrast that with the longstanding consensus that fornication and adultery (and sodomy!) are bad things which the government, *within the limits of its proper authority* - can discourage.

    Let us grant that if two (or more) adults choose to fornicate with or sodomize each other in private, the govt shouldn't punish them. By that time, the harm done by punishing the free choices of adults would outweigh the evil of tolerating bad behavior.

    But with children, the calculus is different. The govt, in my view, can certainly protect children against bad things which it would let them do once they reach adulthood. It can protect them against exploitative adults even if it leaves them free to choose bad behavior once they reach adulthood.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    With adultery, you have the issue of *consent* - on the part of the wronged spouse.

  • John||

    You are correct. A lot of the "abuse" was gay priests having sex with gay teenagers. Not laudable but not the same thing as the ones who were fucking 8 year old kids. That fact was never really reported by the media because the media didn't want anyone to think gay priests were a problem.

  • np||

    What do you make of Joseph (~44) and Mary (~12), who surely had given birth to their son no later than 14?

    Or the Amish who still considers adulthood to be 15?

    Or many other historical examples?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    They were married. I should have specified that I was against adult/child fornication and sodomy. Thank you for the chance to clarify.

  • Fluffy||

    God and Mary weren't married.

    And look at THEIR age difference. Yikes.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I know you're baiting me, but the Blessed Virgin Mary was a unique individual, involved an event which was actually the hinge of human history, on which all else centers. Lacking original sin, she was capable of making correct moral decisions - and she *did* give her consent, unlike millions of people who say no to God every day.

    Wow, I bet it's unusual to have a post like this on H&R, but This Is What I Actually Believe (TM).

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    nb - even people with original sin can make correct moral decisions. Sorry about any confusion.

  • Fluffy||

    Oh, OK. You caught that one while I was typing my reply.

    It's almost as if experience at debating theology had made you anticipate what I would do with that. Nice catch.

  • hotsy totsy||

    Supposedly, baptism clears everyone of original sin. But not "concupiscence", which is "inclination to sin".

  • Fluffy||

    I just wanted you to clarify your "married" stipulation.

    Your earlier post said that there was something about marriage that magically transformed the inability to consent into the ability to consent. I don't see why it's relevant to the discussion at all, but you said it so I thought I would run with it.

    So I offered an example of parties with a substantial age difference and no marriage where (as you note) there was perfectly legitimate consent.

    You now seem to be saying that only those born without original sin are capable of making correct moral decisions, though. And that implies that all sex for everyone everywhere who isn't the Virgin Mary is nonconsensual. Because if Mary's special moral status was the root of her ability to consent, well - nobody else has that special moral status.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "You now seem to be saying that only those born without original sin are capable of making correct moral decisions, though."

    Yes, I implied it, but then I corrected myself. It's a complex issue, but I am no Calvinist. I apologize for the confusion, for which my own phrasing is to blame.

    I would note that, in the US, the Church has a higher age of consent to marriage (won't check the details right now).

    In the old days, when underage girls and boys could get married, their parents had a veto - so there were actually adults involved in the decision.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And while I'm hardly an expert, there may be some poor countries where an underaged girl faces a stark choice between prostitution/concubinage on the one hand, and honorable marriage on the other. In such cases, with the consent of the Church and the parents, maybe an underage marriage may be still be legitimate. But on that subject, you should consult people with better knowledge of the circumstances than me.

  • robc||

    Fluffy gets the win in this exchange.

    And I have a few other comments:

    Its nice to be protestant where I dont have to accept these crazy extra-biblical ideas like that Mary was without sin or that she remained a virgin. In fact, it goes against one of the overriding themes of the entire bible, in that God uses ordinary people to achieve extraordinary things.

    Jesus is the one exception to this, and I dont see any reason to make a 2nd one for Mary.

    Also, whats with the Joseph ~44 comment? Any reason to assume he was any older than ~20? I dont know the typical marriage ages at the time, but I would think 44-12, while it would happen, would be out of the ordinary.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The squirrels keep eating my replies, but basically I tried to say this:

    (a) Fluffy may win in *this* forum, where I'm swimming against the current to such an extent that a salmon going upstream looks by comparison like a vacationer drifting with the current in his inner tube.

    (b) The idea of the Bible as the sole source of religious authority is itself anti-Biblical.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    (b) The idea of the Bible as the sole source of religious authority is itself anti-Biblical.

    Oh? Tell that to the Sadducees. (And later the Karaites).

    Jus' sayin'

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Don't know about the Sadducees or Karaites (I mean I've heard of them, but don't know about their attitude to Tradition).

    But as for Protestants, they have to deal with 2 Thessalonians 2:15 - "So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether *by word of mouth* or by letter." (NIV) (emphasis added)

  • robc||

    5th century doesnt qualify as *by word of mouth* to me.

    The we in your quote, referring to Paul and Peter and etc.

    And re: her virginity, we have direct letter referring to Jesus's brothers. James (no, the other one. No, not that James either), most notably.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Ooh, I got another one:

    "And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others." 2 Tim 2:2 (NIV)

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The Sadducees denied the validity of Jewish Oral Law and believed only the Torah was the source of religious authority.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    All right - but they didn't recognize St. Paul's epistles, either! (see above)

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I dont know the typical marriage ages at the time, but I would think 44-12, while it would happen, would be out of the ordinary.

    No, that was pretty typical of the Greco-Roman world of the time.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    My wife is completing seminary, and said that around 40 is about right for Joseph's age and the age difference is not abnormal.
    She also said that those that say he was older like 60 or 70 are just trolling. A poor carpenter could not live to be that old.

    I'd get the details for you, but she's locked away writing a sermon.

  • hotsy totsy||

    It's even nicer to be a Buddhist where I don't even have to worry about what anybody did in the Bible, anymore than whether Athena sprang fully formed from Zeus' forehead.

    I did attend Catholic school however, and I never had too much problem with Mary being a virgin or not. It's a lot more believable than the loaves and fishes, for example.

  • BardMetal||

    Wait a second now I'm confused. How do we know the age of Mary and Joseph?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Interesting question. But then, how do we know they actually existed?

    (nb - I only said this in order to light the sevo signal, not to suggest I myself questioned their existence)

  • Fluffy||

    Doesn't the genealogy that purports to make Joseph part of the House of David require him to be that old?

    Also, quick question - did Jesus really have a brother, or not? Because I thought Mary remained a virgin ever after Joseph married her.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The tradition says they're either cousins or half-brothers.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Which would be consistent with the terminology of the time.

  • robc||

    Tradition says she popped out a few more kids. Protestant tradition, anyways.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    Protestants think Mary did not remain a virgin, and that James was one of Jesus' brothers.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Protestants can...I mean bless their hearts.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    :)

  • robc||

    Doesn't the genealogy that purports to make Joseph part of the House of David require him to be that old?

    Not really.

    The 14-14-14 generations things is symoblic. Some obvious generations were skipped. Freakin kings got skipped to make the symbolic numbers work out.

    He may have been 40, if that was typical at the time, but there is no math reason for it.

  • Mr Whipple||

    Only the consenting sheep, fuckers.

  • Entropy Void||

    Did you need that comma?

  • Mr Whipple||

    I thought about it. It could have gone either way.

    Now, if it was an Oxford comma....

  • Entropy Void||

    Not joining THAT debate ... keeping it on the bestiality level.

  • prolefeed||

    Editorial at WaPo asserts sex between a 49 year old teacher and a 14 year old student should not be a crime.

    That was legal in Hawaii up until a few years ago, until the age of consent was raised to 16.

    14 is awfully young, and the student-teacher thing seems like an abuse of authority, but I can see someone playing Devil's Advocate and saying that, from a libertarian perspective, a girl who has hit puberty should be able to make her own choices about her body.

  • Nazdrakke||

    and the student-teacher thing seems like an abuse of authority

    That's the thing I'm more focused on. The teacher is a government actor, with real power over the girl in question. If she has aspirations of attending higher education, for example, the teacher exerts at least some influence on it. Further, attending school is mandatory, under threat of punishment, so the relationship is involuntary from the beginning. I don't think this is equivalent to a 14 year old getting the hots for the older guy down the street. In this situation force was included into the calculus from inception, and I think that those wielding said force should be restricted from taking advantage of it for their own gratification.

  • prolefeed||

    I think the proper remedy would be firing the teacher, not throwing them in a government cage.

    And, I wouldn't say force was obviously in use here, not knowing the particulars of what happened. It is possible for a 14 year old to be sexually precocious and able to make adult decisions about his / her body.

    I would have been grateful as a 14 year old to have gotten my penis in a teacher's vagina. I do not think that would have been using force on me.

    Or, as Ted S. put it above, "Every time I hear somebody say, "There ought to be a law", my immediate response is, "Perhaps there ought not be a law."

  • Nazdrakke||

    And, I wouldn't say force was obviously in use here

    But it was, in the fact that she was required by law to attend the school in the first place. I believe that a 14 year old can consent to sex, though I believe it's most often a poor choice for that individual, but when any kind of government power (which is the threat of violence, at it's root) has been exerted first then the governmental actor must be restrained as a condition of being granted that power. (SLD, the whole thing is fucked, but it's the world we're in, baby steps and all that jazz) In this case, teacher not finding sexual gratification from those that they are in authority over.

  • prolefeed||

    Well, force was applied in saying the kids must get some form of schooling -- not specifically at that or any other public school (yet).

    But, then you seem to be saying that since at some point force was applied, then in every other interaction that you disapprove of in that system, force is being applied. Which is not necessarily the case. You need to show that if I had been lucky enough to get to fuck a hot teacher when I was 14, that force had been applied to me. I wouldn't have thought that then, nor have I thought that at any point since then.

    I had a French teacher in college who made it abundantly clear that I could fuck her if I wanted to. I was too shy to take her up on it, even though I wanted to, but if I had acted on that opportunity, would she have applied "force" upon me?

    Hell no.

  • BardMetal||

    On a more practical note I don't thinking arguing that they should lower the age of consent to the age of puberty is going to win anyone any votes.

    Also how does the age puberty make anymore sense then a number like 16 or 18? Puberty does not equal an adult.

  • prolefeed||

    Maybe in your state it wouldn't get votes. It was a near thing with the Hawaii legislature raising the age of consent to 16. If just one or two of the legislators there had lost their races prior to that debate, the age of consent in Hawaii might be 14 or 15 now.

  • ||

    Betsy Karasik is a writer and former lawyer.

    I'll bet I can guess how she got disbarred.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    It doesn't specify whether she got disbarred or became inactive on her own request.

  • ||

  • np||

    I think her argument does have merit. First she does distinguish between legitimate rape and consensual sex. Second, there are two separate issues here. One is the criminalization of sex between teacher and student and the other is age of consent that is should be more aligned with nature or puberty, (which it was for man's history up until recently)

    I mean, if I recall, you might want to ask how Hyperion would feel being forcefully classified as a "rape victim" and his much older gal who took his virginity as a sex offender.

  • np||

    Also considering how a teenager can be tried as adult for serious crimes, it doesn't make sense even from a fiat legal standpoint to treat them as children for some things and not others.

  • Deep Lurker||

    In particular, when a teenager can be tried as an adult for rape, it doesn't make sense to claim that they can't legally consent to having sex.

    Yet the law continues to be an ass. There have even been cases where two teenagers have had sex with both of them being charged as adults with statutory rape.

    More generally, this business of telling teenagers "If you behave yourself, we will treat you as a child, but if you commit a crime we will treat you as an adult" is just asking for trouble.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "the other is age of consent that is should be more aligned with nature or puberty, (which it was for man's history up until recently)"

    For most of man's history, the age of consent was the age of consent for *marriage,* not to fornication or adultery, which was not legal.

  • BardMetal||

    Does np realise that most people begin puberty in middle school?

    Perhaps they should be allowed to vote too, and join the military.

  • np||

    I don't see how voting by someone who's 18 is any more legitimate than someone younger. In fact I don't see how the idea of voting, is valid at any age. It's not like people become any more enlightened with age when given the chance to vote for free shit or vote to fuck someone else over anyways.

    As far as military goes, sure why not? Richard I of England started the military very young, basically puberty, and:
    By the age of sixteen, Richard the Lionheart had taken command of his own army, putting down rebellions in Poitou against his father, King Henry II.[1] Richard was a central Christian commander during the Third Crusade, leading the campaign after the departure of Philip II of France and scoring considerable victories against his Muslim counterpart, Saladin, although he did not reconquer Jerusalem.[3]

  • BardMetal||

    So zero age requirements for voting? I just want to make sure I understand that. So I can bring a toddler into a voting booth? Can this toddler also purchase a gun after he is finished voting, and then maybe go buy a six pack?

    Different societies have different ages where they consider a person an adult. In our society it's 18.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    Kind of, 18 is adult enough to vote and kill people by joining the army, but not adult enough to drink alcohol or smoke pot legally in CO and WA.

  • prolefeed||

    Different societies have different ages where they consider a person an adult. In our society it's 18.

    Not when it comes to sex. The age of consent varies from 16 to 18 in various states, and a few years ago it varied from 14 to 18.

    Since the kids in each state are not measurably different from their peers in other states, it would appear that the legal definition of age of consent is something made up, not something based on objective, obviously true criteria.

  • np||

    Man's history did not begin with Abrahamic cultures nor was the world limited to it in even the same period. Pagan cultures and Asiatic cultures for one easily refutes the notion of criminalizing sex outside of marriage. Even in the pre-Islamic middle east when Jews shared Babylon (now Iraq), that worldview does not hold up.

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • np||

    http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/pf.php

    While sailors on the early European exploring ships regarded Polynesia as a sexual paradise, the missionaries they brought viewed the same cultures as dens of debauchery. Oliver (1989) cites a 1778 report of J. Forster who stated: “The great plenty of good and nourishing food, together with fine climate, the beauty and unreserved behavior of their females, invite them powerfully to the enjoyments and pleasures of love. They begin early to abandon themselves to the most libidinous scenes.”
  • Anonymous Coward||

    So Hindus aren't really Asian? Polynesians are real Asians?

  • prolefeed||

    Hinduism is a religion, not an ethnicity, though the vast majority of Hindus are from the Indian portion of Asia.

    Polynesians are descended from people of Asian ancestry, apparently originally from people who sailed out of Taiwan and island hopped.

  • np||

    (cont'd)


    Needless to say, the various explorers and colonial ship crews visiting the islands misunderstood Polynesian sexuality. For example, in the Marquesas, young naked girls swam out to the ships to engage in sexual trysts with the sailors. While the sailors took advantage of the sexual liberation of these young girls, they experienced some ambiguity, because their own Western sexual paradigm had no comparable framework or referent. While Polynesian girls were similar in some respects to the prostitutes or sex workers who typically greeted these sailors at other ports, they were also very different because of their youth, nakedness, and willingness to swim out to greet the boats. ...

    In their massive cross-cultural review of the ethnographic literature, Ford and Beach (1951) classified the Mangarevans, the Marquesans, and the Pukapukans as “permissive societies,” characterized by tolerant attitudes toward sexual expression in the lifespan of the individual. According to Gregersen (1983), Polynesia is known for “public copulation, erotic festivals, ceremonial orgies and sex expeditions,” which had disappeared by modern times.
  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Much good it did the Polynesians!

    "Sailing from England, and later from the New England region of the newly independent USA, whalers and traders began frequenting Tahiti in the 1790s, escaping their harsh shipboard life, buying supplies, introducing alcohol and spreading diseases. These men were rough, hard-drinking and looking for sex. Traders also started to appear from the convict colonies in Australia; they exchanged weapons for food supplies, encouraged prostitution and established stills to produce alcohol.

    "Listless and plagued by diseases against which it had no natural immunity, the Polynesian population continued to plummet. The population of Tahiti in the late 1760s was estimated around 40, 000; in 1800 another estimate put the population at less than 20, 000; by the 1820s it was down to around 6000. In the Marquesas the situation was even worse: it has been estimated the population dropped from 80, 000 to 2000 in one century."

    http://www.lonelyplanet.com/ta.....ia/history

  • np||

    See also, the history of sex in Japan, where sex was certainly confined to marriage.

    http://www.hms.org.il/Museum/T.....1&FID=1503


    Nevertheless, bi-sexuality rather than homosexuality was the accepted norm in the Edo period, and the men who did have relationships with boys were nearly always married. There are plenty of shunga pictures depicting sexual activities involving three people - a man, a boy, and a woman. Kabuki actors who performed women's roles had sex with both men and women, and were subjects of shunga parodies that contained hints of scandals about the aristocratic women who had sexual relationships with them. There are also depictions of lesbianism, usually of women using dildos, or wearing a man's mask while making love.
  • np||

    edit: "was certainly *not* confined to marriage"

  • BardMetal||

    It might surprise you to learn that Western civilization isn't a Pagan or Asiatic culture.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It might surprise you to learn that Western civilization isn't a Pagan or Asiatic culture

    You're right, it's both. Its roots are in Greco-Roman paganism, after which the Asiatic ethno-religious cult of Judeo-Christianity was melded into it.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    The State's clergy can diddle all of the boys and girls they can handle. It's those evil CHRISTFAG priests, pastors, and parsons who must be kept away from our most precious resource: the chillunz.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    "The implementation of the Food Safety Modernization Act, through its burdensome regulatory scheme, will result in the local food system losing market share to corporate giants producing inferior quality food," says Pete Kennedy, head of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, also by email.

    Of course, that was the whole point of the FMSA. And the beauty of it all is that the morons will keep voting for the fascists that passed it.

  • Jordan||

    I notice our derpgressive trolls never show up to threads like this.

  • ||

    Well folks, looks like we might get our wish. I think we got us a movement.

    We should make the most of it and start planning our administration:

    P- Rand Paul
    VP- Nick Gillespie (or rather his jacket)

    I volunteer to be Sec Def, as I want to reduce the size of that bloated cow by at least 50% and I know where to wield the knife.

    Accepting nominations for other cabinet and advisory positions.

    We'll need a prioritized list of the laws to be repealed and get it to Congress (as repeal of laws will be the only legislation NOT vetoed). Should they refuse, we'll need to come up with a policy of selective enforcement.

    We'll need a second list of the government agencies to do away with. (No Epi, not all of them.)

    And a list of constitutional amendments that curtail government power. We'll need a volunteer to organize a convention as allowed under Article 5 where these amendments will be presented. Please don't invite any Rs or Ds.

    Let's get crackin', we gotta get this thing goin' while the iron's hot.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Order up some barrels of tar and sacks of feathers and eliminate goverent provided protection. "Public servants" should fear respect the general public.

  • Fluffy||

    I will say this now and you can hold me to it later:

    If Rand Paul gets the nomination in 2016 I promise to be the best damn Republican you ever saw.

    I will not fight with John.

    I will not fight with fundies. I will shake their hands and smile.

    Any anti-war Greenwaldians who cross the line and hold their noses to support Paul get hand shakes too.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Wow.

  • John||

    Good for you. But the Greenwalkians won't come with you. They are more about socialism than being anti-war.

  • Hyperion||

    I'm not completely sure about that. I have talked to some Greens who would actually vote for Paul over Hillary. At least they said as much, but you're probably right, when it comes down to it, they will vote D no matter what.

  • Jordan||

    Smilin' Joe Fission for Secretary of Energy. Assuming the Energy Dept still exists at that point.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    I'll be Secretary of Ed. The first order of business is to abolish my department.

  • ||

    I'll be Secretary of Ed.

    Good plan BbtD, you are our man.

  • ||

    After you've raped mother Gaia for all she's worth, sucked every drop of oil out of the ground and converted it to CO2, set up unregulated nuclear power plants and identified the radioactive landfill locations, we'll get rid of DOE once and for all.

  • ||

    Or after Joe has, I should say.

  • John||

    I object to any Cosmotarian unity ticket. Sorry Cosmos, go to the back of the bus and keep quiet.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I hope you realize that in loony-Paleo-land, that you're considered a "Cosmo" because you don't believe in cheering on the Palestinians as they slaughter Jews, while you wear a seersucker suit, panama hat, and bow tie and sit on your porch, drinking mint julips, while you observe your neo-slaves pick cotton on your neo-plantation.

    Jus' sayin'

  • Irish||

    He also doesn't applaud Hugo Chavez for 'standing up to American imperialism,' doesn't harbor strange and unseemly neo-confederate beliefs, and has never written a newsletter in Ron Paul's name that expresses racist beliefs.

    This makes it difficult for John to fit in with the Paleos. He's closer to a Cosmo than the alternative.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I think the true question is, do Paleos like John-women or sarcasmic-women?

  • Hyperion||

    Well, in Paleo land, you're a hunter gatherer, so there's not enough calories to support boobs and booty, so I am going with sarc quasi-females.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Yes, but curves would be a sign of successful calorie gathering, which usually acts as a positive expression of "sexual capital".

  • Hyperion||

    I would probably hunt 20 hours a day to keep my wife from losing her curves, (:, no sarc wiminz fer me.

  • ||

    Can someone tell me the difference between a "Paleo" and a Republican?

    I mean if a libertarian is very loosely defined as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, how exactly is someone who is fiscally conservative AND socially conservative, NOT A CONSERVATIVE?

  • Irish||

    They're not really socially conservative. They tend to be VERY anti-war and opposed to U.S. imperialism to the point where some of them will actually praise anti-American dictators. There's a distasteful racist strain running through the philosophy, but they generally don't want racism codified into law.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    They're not really socially conservative.

    That's not true. Rockwell, who coined the term, intended the "Paleo" suffix to refer to a belief in cultural conservatism, i.e. "The Good Ol' Days (that never existed and are only a product of popular imagination)".

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Irish||

    "[P]ornographic photography, 'free'-thinking, chaotic painting, atonal music, deconstructionist literature, Bauhaus architecture, and modernist films have nothing in common with the libertarian political agenda - no matter how much individual libertarians may revel in them. ... we obey, and we ought to obey, traditions of manners and taste."

    Wow. That really does remind me of Mozart was a Red. I've actually read Mozart was a Red on Mises, which makes me wonder how Lew can be so lacking in self-awareness to allow his think tank to publish both of those articles.

  • Irish||

    In its 17-year history, the LP may
    never have gotten 1% in a national election, but it has smeared the most glorious political idea in human history with
    libertine muck. For the sake of that glorious idea, it's time to get out the scrub
    brushes.

    Goddamn Libertarian Party, advocating in favor of gay rights and not really caring what other people do with their dicks.

    How dare they not obsess over what's going on in their neighbor's bedroom?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    Lew is Roman Catholic, which means that he's been an old fart forever.

    Maybe there's something about the RCC that creates the culturally odd subsect of anarchos and crypto-anarchos like Rockwell, Woods, and the Judge. Nothing against them outside of Rockwell's tendency to channel shrill, sarcastic, old-fart Rothbard, but their cultural clique is a little odd in a movement that I tend to think of in terms of Jeff Tucker, Molyneux, and Penn Jillette types.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Can someone tell me the difference between a "Paleo" and a Republican?

    The majority of Republicans don't belong to the "Old Right".

  • Robert||

    First of all, the Republicans are a political party with such a diversity of members (many millions) that it's hard to generalize about them.

    But when you ask about paleo-conservatives, the next question is whether you're asking about the people Rothbard said he was describing, or about the "brand" that Rothbard and Rockwell came to identify semi-passively? Rothbard 1st used the term to describe some American (and a few British & Continental) intellectuals who could've been identified as prominent "conservatives" in the 1st half of the 20th C., such as Robert Taft, who were distinguished by their opposition to involvement in the world wars (esp. the 2nd) and the Cold War. But over time, various people were claimed by Rothbard or Rockwell, or claimed themselves to be on that model, as contemporary paleo-conservatives basically by being cranks, crabs, nuts, sarcasm slingers, gadflies, or what have you. Patrick J. Buchanan would be a prominent example of the latter.

  • Entropy Void||

    I wanna be Secretary of Male Privilege.

  • Mr Whipple||

    Of course, Walmart will be more than happy to sell that locally grow produce for the farmers.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesa.....ocal-foods

  • From the Tundra||

    From the comments (always comedy gold):

    I love the way these mega conglomerates Home Depot, Wal-Mart... others are throwing these pittances around in some PR campaign to convince us they give adamn about local communities. Their entire business model was derived from the idea of putting small business out of business. Pleased do not buy into this pathetic PR stunt. Haven't been to a Wal-shart in over a year and my bank account doesn't know any better.

    The stupid is strong with this one and, like most proggies, he completely misses the newsworthy part of the story: WalMart customers want (and are presumably willing to pay for)local produce.

    I find it pretty remarkable that WalMart would go through the sourcing hassles of buying local, particularly as it would require them to (often) deal with more and smaller operations. Of course, since it is NPR, the lament is that most of the local farms are large operations. They can't seem to grasp that a lot of smaller businesses choose not to do business with the large distributors/retailers because the requirements don't fit with their models. Regardless, I find the "buy local" push at WalMart very interesting.

  • Mr Whipple||

    You'd be surprised. They invented the produce auction in my town, which is owned by a co-op of local farmers. A lot of them are going off the reservation, so to speak, and dealing direct with retailers.

    IDK for sure, but it's probably some sort of large secondary corp like Bonnie Plants that they deal with. They're the ones that were responsible for the late blight a few yaers ago that almost wiped out all of the tomato production in the NE.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    A fuckin' Bonnie tomato plant infected my garden with early blight, this year.

    I'm growing from seed from now on.

  • Hyperion||

    I have some maters on my deck right now that are grown from 10 year old heirloom Marglobe seed. I had the seeds in the fridge, since 2003. I didn't think any of them would sprout after none did for a few weeks, but I got about 10-20% of them after a month.

    Some of my cherry tomatoes, which I bought from the local nursery, got blight because it rained every day for nearly 4 months, but I sprayed them down with fungicide and trimmed back the blighted leaves, and now they are doing great.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I usually do the crazy hybrid/monsanto evil tomatoes and have great results. Yummy maters and huge yields. This year the people on the internet convinced me to go with all heirloom varieties.

    I've had maybe 5 tomatoes so far. They were all small and tasted like store bought crap.

    Is this typical, or is there some special way that heirlooms must be treated?

  • Hyperion||

    I find the heirlooms to be more prone to blight. Just spray them down with a good fungicide when you first notice it. Of course that's more difficult to control in a large garden, like I used to have, but just on a deck in pots, you can get control of it fairly easy.

    Hybrids are always more healthy imho, that's the results that I get. Even the Marglobes that I have are hybrids, they still look like Marglobes and taste like them, they were grown near other tomatoes for probably 10 seasons. I've been growing from seed since the mid 90s.

    I find that hybrids of any type plant are always healthier than others.

    When my cherries from the nursery got blight, it didn't affect the Marglobes at all, even though they were close by.

  • Hyperion||

    Not to mention, growing from seed will allow the plants to gradually adapt better to your specific climate.

  • General Butt Naked||

    The actual plants show no sign of disease. They are very healthy looking, but aren't producing a tenth of what I'm used to. One has about 20 green tomatoes on it and they won't change. It's practically september and it won't give me my fix.

  • Mr Whipple||

    I'm not sure exactly what variety of tomatoes they grow here in South Jersey. But they are still the best.

    The corn and strawberries are pretty damned good, too. I don't think they've changed very much in the last 40 years or so, except, maybe the asparagus people at Walker Plants.

    https://www.walkerplants.com/products/home.php

    But this year everything was late because of a cool, wet Spring.

    Oh, and technically, late blight happens every year. I used to think it was the first frost that ended the tomato season, but it's late blight. Which is why they call it late blight.

    Bonnie, however, has been known to ship infected plants from unsanitary hot houses in the Spring. Causing late blight to occur much earlier in the year.

  • ||

    Speaking of Walmart, I found this delightfully unhinged comment (pastebin because it was killed) on HN the other day. Samples:

    [Christy Walton] is worth $27 billion because the son of Sam Walton used to plow her pussy. Since an heir blew his load into her hole, she collects a sizable portion of the $6 billion a year Wal-Mart sends out in dividends.

    [...] She is a receptacle for the jism of an heir. Workers bust their ass at Wal-Mart all day, and create wealth. She laid on her back for an heir, so she gets to parasitically expropriate the surplus labor value of the workers creating wealth at Wal-Mart. [...] She is as useless as the Romanovs were in the moments before the bullets from a Bolshevik firing squad tore them to shreds...

    [...] There is all kinds of bullshit, all kinds of nicey-nice little Goebbels commissar intellectual whore lackeys like McArdle around, scribbling for their pay and their masters why the parasites like Christy Walton should live so well...

    ...two centuries ago, capitalist's had almost no power. Their champion, Napoleon, was about to be exiled to Saint Helena as the Bourbon Restoration took hold, and the last vestige of capitalist power on continental Europe was about to be stamped out. By the time several decades later capitalists became coming into power, they were almost immediately hit with the Paris Commune, and then the October Revolution.
  • Irish||

    [Christy Walton] is worth $27 billion because the son of Sam Walton used to plow her pussy. Since an heir blew his load into her hole, she collects a sizable portion of the $6 billion a year Wal-Mart sends out in dividends.

    The HORROR! Rich people get to leave money to their families?!?!

    Workers bust their ass at Wal-Mart all day, and create wealth. She laid on her back for an heir, so she gets to parasitically expropriate the surplus labor value of the workers creating wealth at Wal-Mart. [...] She is as useless as the Romanovs were in the moments before the bullets from a Bolshevik firing squad tore them to shreds...

    Nitwit appropriation of Marxist economic theory followed by hyper violent Russian revolution imagery? Check.

    There is all kinds of bullshit, all kinds of nicey-nice little Goebbels commissar intellectual whore lackeys like McArdle around, scribbling for their pay and their masters why the parasites like Christy Walton should live so well...

    His idea of a dangerous hyper capitalist is...Megan McArdle?

  • Irish||

    two centuries ago, capitalist's had almost no power.

    Really? Because it seems like the mercantile class was becoming pretty fucking wealthy in the early 1800s. The only reason 'capitalists' might not have had much power was because of state monopolistic grants to cronies.

    Their champion, Napoleon, was about to be exiled to Saint Helena as the Bourbon Restoration took hold, and the last vestige of capitalist power on continental Europe was about to be stamped out.

    LOL what? Nothing says 'ubercapitalist' like the dictator of post-revolutionary France.

    By the time several decades later capitalists became coming into power, they were almost immediately hit with the Paris Commune, and then the October Revolution.

    Yes. And those things worked out just wonderfully.

  • Mr Whipple||

    Because it seems like the mercantile class was becoming pretty fucking wealthy in the early 1800s. The only reason 'capitalists' might not have had much power was because of state monopolistic grants to cronies.

    But, but, but, teh mercantism is teh kapitalism!!!

  • ||

    Nitwit appropriation of Marxist economic theory followed by hyper violent Russian revolution imagery? Check.

    I like how beautifully he weaves together Marxism and genuine misogyny.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Melissa Harris Perry's RACISM SQUAD is on the fast food case. OMFG those poor oppressed burger flippers are being robbed of their labor and dignity. And they don't get promoted automatically.

    These people are so fucking dumb, it's appalling.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Quit watching MSNBC Brooks. They are as bad as Fox News.

    I watch Bloomberg when I have to watch TV news. Or CNN International.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    WOW

    MSNBC is even too crappy to watch for a proglodyte shill.

  • Irish||

    That probably explains why Chris Hayes gets like 400,000 viewers. He got beaten the other day by CNN Headline News.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Fuck you, VG.

    You know, if the LP is ever going to make an impact (and it can with just 5% of the electorate) you need us classic liberals, or "liberaltarians", or whatever the name for us social liberal/small government types are. There are millions of us.

    I will take an LP vote even if it comes from a Lew Rockwell type. There is no space on the ballot to describe your political etymology.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    you need us classic liberals, or "liberaltarians", or whatever the name for us social liberal/small government types are.

    You've certainly been called a lot of names around here, but never those.

  • John||

    You are all about being a "classic Liberal". Nothing says classic liberal like the corporate state and fascism. You are a fascism shreek. Everyone knows it. You come on here to shill for the total government. Go die in a fire you little creep

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Eat shit you fascist Santorum loving liar. Where is that racist quote about Ginny Thomas you promised to find of mine?

  • John||

    You know you said it. You little racist pig. Go shill for the total state elsewhere.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Santorum loving liar.

    That's funny coming from the most homophobic poster here.

    Yes, your homophobia beats out American!'s.

  • Hyperion||

    He's a prog, posing as a Libertarian, and doing a poor job of it.

    Libertarians do not kiss the ass of politicians like ButtPlug does, we are always critical of even the ones we like. But mindless worship of politicians is not a trait of any libertarian.

    Case closed.

  • Irish||

    You know, if the LP is ever going to make an impact (and it can with just 5% of the electorate) you need us classic liberals, or "liberaltarians", or whatever the name for us social liberal/small government types are. There are millions of us.

    "If the LP is ever going to be successful, they need to become the Democratic party and endorse views that they despise!"

  • Jordan||

    Classical liberals don't slavishly defend central planning and police states as long as the right TEAM is at the helm.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    More lies. It is all you have.

  • Irish||

    Really? Are you going to deny that your posts here are constantly in favor of Barack Obama, regardless of how much he is using government power to manipulate the economy and the American people? You love big government.

  • Jordan||

    Defends every 1,000+ page behemoth that Obama signs? Check.

    Shrugs off the most restrictive gun control proposals in decades? Check.

    Shrugs off NSA spying? Check.

    Defends every one of Obombya's military actions? Check.

  • BardMetal||

    Do you actually believe that you are in anyway a libertarian or do you just type that here just to fuck with us?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    you need us classic liberals, or "liberaltarians", or whatever the name for us...

    Fascist blowhards.

    Soros' blog brigades sure ain't no classic liberals.

  • John||

    Now it is not. Dipshit gets a lot of his talking points from there. He is just lying in an attempt to get people to believe him when he puts out the talking points. See I don't like MSNBC either, so pay no attention to the fact that most of my posts come straight from the mouths of their hosts.

    I will give him credit, his handlers must have given him a little training on how to properly troll. He is getting slightly better at it.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You're a Team Red hack but if you ever did vote LP (which I have many times) I would still take your vote.

  • ||

    If you ever approached the LP they'd run you out on a rail, don't pretend you'd be in a position to "take" ANYONE'S vote. Get back under the presidential desk where you came from.

  • Hyperion||

    CNN can at times, be worse than MSNBC and Fox combined.

  • BardMetal||

    I had someone at work yesterday ask me if I had ever worked one of those jobs when I laughed about them demanding $15 an hour.

    Apparently he thought that sense the work was hard that the employees were justified in demanding more money.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Suggest that since he doesn't have to work as hard, perhaps he should be the one making $7.50 an hour, and the remainder of his salary should go support McDonald's workers.

  • BardMetal||

    Thats a good idea. Somehow I think I'll get a response that goes something like "Why should have pay their workers, McDonalds is the one with all the money."

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Cornel West Calls Al Sharpton a House Negro, MSNBC the "Rent-a-Negro" Network, Points Out that MLK Wasn't a Huge Fan of the Corporate Media

    Brother Martin himself, I think, would’ve been turning over in his grave,” West said of the event. “[King would have wanted] people to talk about Wall Street criminality, he wants people to talk about war crimes, or drones dropping bombs on innocent people,” he asserted.

    “Instead,” he lamented, “we saw the coronation of the bonafide house negro of the Barack Obama plantation, our dear brother Al Sharpton.” West then declared that Sharpton’s decline was “supported by [MSNBC analyst] Michael Dyson and others who’ve prostituted themselves in a very ugly and vicious way.”

    During an interview with Democracy Now‘s Amy Goodman, West had some choice words for Sharpton, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson and Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry, who he claims have been bought and paid for by the “Rent-a-Negro” network MSNBC. While the aforementioned scholars have been extremely vocal in their support of the Obama Administration, Tavis Smiley, who was interviewed along with Dr. West, said their support comes at the expense of critical thinking and a legitimate push for a Black agenda:

    Sharpton isn't a House Negro though. He's more of a Quimbo or Sambo: an overseer who keeps the slaves in line by aping the cruelty and stupidity of his masters.

  • John||

    Cornel is just pissed he isn't getting a paycheck.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wl3qC_ZO5c

    Economist Cornell West speaks!

  • Mr Whipple||

    I love how they blame 'teh evul korporashuns', and don't realize, or don't care that most fast food joints are independently owned small business franchises. But we all know that the unions HATE small businesses.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Profits are evil.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    OT - Tim Tebow Era comes to end - Cut by Patriots.

  • np||

    Violent Content Research Act Raises Free Speech Concerns

    The Violent Content Research Act of 2013 would require the Federal Trade Commission, Federal Communications Commission, and the Department of Health and Human Services to enter into arrangements with the National Academy of Sciences to study and report causal connections between video games and real world violence.

    [ . . . ]

    This pursuit of suspect research is another reminder of how the current attacks on video games is frighteningly similar to the attacks against comic books in the 1950s. Despite Supreme Court holdings such as Brown v. EMA, denial by FBI profilers, and flaws in research that links gun violence and video games, legislators still won’t accept the lack of connection between the two. They continue to press for more research in hopes that they will eventually get the answer that they want.
  • Nazdrakke||

    It'll always be something. Cinema, music, video games, doesn't matter. If anything bad happens anywhere, ever then something, somewhere must be declared at fault and be regulated, censored, banned, etc. for The Children.

  • BardMetal||

    Politicians have to let the soccer moms know how much they care about little johnny. What better way then a to wage a moral crusade against violent video games, comic books, movies, music, etc?

  • mr lizard||

    Look, bad stuff happened so WegaddaDosumtin....for the kittens

  • Jumbie||

    Reminder: The Reasonoid NFL pick em league has begun.

    http://football.fantasysports......ckem/45865

    Password: postrel4eva

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I might get in on this.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Craig Zucker: What Happens When a Man Takes on the Feds

    On July 10, 2012, the Consumer Product Safety Commission instructed Maxfield & Oberton to file a "corrective-action plan" within two weeks or face an administrative suit related to Buckyballs' alleged safety defects. Around the same time—and before Maxfield & Oberton had a chance to tell its side of the story—the commission sent letters to some of Maxfield & Oberton's retail partners, including Brookstone, warning of the "severity of the risk of injury and death possibly posed by" Buckyballs and requesting them to "voluntarily stop selling" the product.

    It was an underhanded move, as Maxfield & Oberton and its lawyers saw it. "Very, very quickly those 5,000 retailers became zero," says Mr. Zucker.

    So they bankrupted the company because of a slight chance that the product could be dangerous if misused, just like every other product out there. Unfortunately for Zucker, he had fought back with a publicity campaign, so a simple bankruptcy wasn't going to satisfy the CPSC:

    But in February the Buckyballs saga took a chilling turn: The commission filed a motion requesting that Mr. Zucker be held personally liable for the costs of the recall, which it estimated at $57 million, if the product was ultimately determined to be defective.
  • Jordan||

    It's shit like this that makes me wonder why there aren't more killing sprees at government offices.

  • Irish||

    Slate finally admits that the gender wage gap is a lie.

    I haven't read the comments. I have no intention of doing so. I'm just glad that at least someone at Slate has caught up to where Thomas Sowell was 30 years ago.

  • Fluffy||

    It’s the deeper, more systemic discrimination of inadequate family-leave policies and childcare options, of women defaulting to being the caretakers.

    Did you know that it was discriminatory to pay people who show up and do the job more than people who stay home to take care of their kids instead?

    I guess it's also discrimination to pay your employees salaries, rather than paying salaries to every inhabitant of the Earth instead. So what if they don't work for you! You don't want to discriminate, do you?

  • John||

    It is also a part of the patriarchy that many women prefer to stay home with their kids if they are lucky enough to have husband's with incomes that allow that. It is just our sexist society that causes those women to choose family over careers and thus earn less money. It is their job to have careers and fight for the movement.

  • mr lizard||

    I had some dude said the word patriarchy in my own damn living room last night. There was nearly a breakdown in classiness.

  • General Butt Naked||

    The fact that the women with higher earning spouses earn much less than their peers is an interesting fact. I wonder if that's a gender neutral phenomenon.

  • ||

    The first few comments I've read haven't been so bad.

    Actually, many of them have been quite good. It's a pleasant change of pace.

    I don't file this one under "good", but it's still my favorite:

    What was that? I was busy beating my wife after the Super Bowl.

  • Irish||

    It's unbelievable how many feminist myths there are.

    1. There are no false rape allegations.

    2. Gender wage gap.

    3. Super Bowl day has a sudden spike in spousal abuse.

    4. 1 out of every 3 women will be raped in their lifetimes.

    5. Everything involving the War on Women.

    6. There is a secret pro-rape culture. This is despite the fact that virtually all Americans find rape abhorrent and want rapists to be thrown in prison.

    7. Regulating abortion clinics results in fewer people getting abortions and may force clinics to close down, but over-regulating businesses has no impact.

  • ||

    3. Super Bowl day has a sudden spike in spousal abuse.

    I've never even heard of that.

  • Irish||

  • Virginian||

    It's an older one. Of course it's bullshit because the vast majority of football fans don't give a shit who wins the Super Bowl, because their teams probably aren't playing.

    I mean I was four the last time the Skins were in the Super Bowl. Good thing we won, otherwise I would have beating up my little friend from next door.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Domestic violence doesn't spike during the Super Bowl, because wive have learned to shut up and bring their husband a beer when he asks, lol

    imonlykiddinghatersseriously.com

  • General Butt Naked||

    I'm from pittsburgh and the myth has always stated that local wife beatings spike after the steelers lose.

    From what I've seen of yinzers, I never doubted it.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    From what I've seen of yinzers, the wives are just as likely to be drunk and angry and in a fighting mood after the Steelers lose.

  • ||

    And based on the size of the yinzer wimmenz I've seen, it's a toss up as to who takes the beatin'.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "The federal government is pouring almost $11 billion per year into a 35,000-employee program dedicated to 'groundbreaking' methods to decode encrypted messages such as e-mails, according to an intelligence black budget published by The Washington Post."

    http://arstechnica.com/securit.....g-program/

    Doesn't that mean encryption will soon be like hiding behind a fig leaf--if it isn't already?

  • Knarf Yenrab (prev. An0nB0t)||

    If they somehow succeed, they would break internet commerce the second it leaked. Everything from Netflix to Amazon to BoA, trillions of dollars worth of transactions and information would be exposed.

    FTFA:

    As Ars reported earlier this month, some cryptographers are growing increasingly concerned that breakthroughs in discrete mathematics could soon spawn a so-called cryptopocalypse that could undermine the security of core encryption algorithms. Security expert Bruce Schneier and other cryptographers have publicly doubted the likelihood of such a scenario happening anytime soon, but since there's no mathematical proof that the theory isn't possible, there's no way to dismiss the possibility.

    And from the Schneier link:

    This isn't to say that solving these problems won't continue to get easier, but so far it has been trivially easy to increase key lengths to stay ahead of the advances. I expect this to remain true for the foreseeable future.
  • Rhywun||

    I'm confused. If these "food safety" rules are so desperately needed, why should anyone get an exception?

  • Irish||

    Liberals assume that big corporations would be totally okay poisoning their customers but that the good and noble small farmer never would.

    It's the same reason why leftists assure us that these food inspections are totally necessary but will still buy uninspected food at a farmer's market.

    HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT THOSE AMISH DIDN'T PUT CYANIDE IN THEIR PIES! HOW DO THEY KNOW!

  • Rhywun||

    Oh, I know it's all horseshit - I was just funnin'.

  • Robert||

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The new food safety regs will probably do some harm, but having them in suspense also does harm. When businesses are uncertain about what the final version of pending regs are, they're less likely to take a chance on investing in capital or land or training (and new hires) that might turn out to be either unnecessary or against the regs. So I'm not sure FDA's delay is doing us any favors.

  • robc||

    Everton is frustrating under Martinez.

    They were frustrating under Moyes too, but this is a different kind of frustrating.

  • Rhywun||

    Works for me :)

  • BakedPenguin||

    Hey, they're undefeated.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    Jagielka remains a good fantasy league pick up though.

  • Rhywun||

    I had both him and Heitinga last year and I don't even like Everton - not that it helped me any.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    warning of the "severity of the risk of injury and death possibly posed by" Buckyballs

    WTF?

    They are nothing more than magnetized ball bearings, right?

  • Ken Shultz||

    If you swallow them, they gravitate towards each other with remarkable strength. So, they'll perforate your intestinal walls, for instance, to get next to each other. They'll basically tear through anything inside you that gets between them.

    Little kids shouldn't be anywhere near them, and if anybody swallowed them, there's no way they'd wait for you to pass them. They'd have to go in a surgically remove them individually, I'm sure.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Come to think of it, buckyballs would make for some nasty-ass buckshot.

  • Virginian||

    They'd probably stick together in the shell and not disperse.

  • Warrren||

    Maybe the force of being fired would cause them to string out and become chain-shot. A whirling blade of death!

  • Live Free or Diet||

    They'd probably stick together in the shell and not disperse.

    Sounds like it might act kind of like a wax shot load and not disperse until impact.

  • Blinded by the Derp||

    "The editors of the Yakima (WA) Herald, meanwhile, warn that provisions requiring farmers "to test all irrigation water before it touches the surface of any fruit" could spell doom for the state's tree fruit farmers".

    I assume farmers will also have to make sure that absolutely no birds, deer, mice, etc piss or shit on the fruit too.

  • Hyperion||

    Small farmers primarily are concerned that they will not be able afford to comply with the rules and that they may not qualify for an exemption

    Well, isn't that the point? You're not supposed to be able to comply unless you are one of the governments currently favored cronies.

    Sounds like this law will work as intended.

  • ||

    Somalia has been replaced by North Korea as a libertarian paradise.

    North Korea is the only country in the world where it is legal to use, sell, transport and cultivate marijuana. - See more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/.....OZPuM.dpuf
  • ||

    How do they transport the stuff without ROADZ????

  • ||

    I recently witnessed the ROADZ argument deployed IRL. I had to turn away while I laughed.

  • Hyperion||

    There are plenty of roads in NK, just no cars to drive on them.

  • General Butt Naked||

    It's because smoking weed in a country with no food sucks so bad that nobody bothers.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    There are plenty of roads in NK, just no cars to drive on them.

    My uncle has been there, and he says there are trucks using wood for fuel to transport goods on the crappy* ROADZ.

    *apparently, there are beautiful smooth wide roads in the capital, nearly completely devoid of traffic.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    1 out of every 3 women will be raped in their lifetimes.,/i

    I think you meant, by lunchtime.

  • ||

    I see you're now taking a principled stance against HTML.

  • Warrren||

    Crush the Candy Kingdom!

  • ||

    2 out of 3 women will make a sandwich for a man sometime in their lifetimes.

  • silverfang789||

    Is this the law that would prohibit backyard vegetable gardens?

  • robc||

    GT 42, Elon 0 at the half.

    Unlike the defending Big 12 champs, my weekend isnt getting ruined by some crappy FCS team.

  • Warrren||

    And this is why I don't bother with college football.

  • Warrren||

    JACK DADDY FRAP FRAP!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    you're now taking a principled stance against HTML.

    Principled stance, or incompetence and carelessness?

    You decide.

  • R C Dean||

    What difference, at this point, does it make?

  • hotsy totsy||

    My friend's 12 year old kid claimed that before the FDA, companies that made hot dogs that had human remains in them, because if anyone "fell into the machines" they just got ground up, clothes, shoes and all, into the meat they used in the hot dogs. Nobody could stop working and pull them out even. So because of the FDA, they aren't allowed to do things like this anymore.

    This is what they learn in school. And then are told they have to "educate" the grownups.

  • Redmanfms||

    This is what they learn in school. And then are told they have to "educate" the grownups.

    Sounds like your friend's kid was forced to read some Sinclair-style horseshit with the hyperbole dialed up to 11.

    But then, I remember being told that socialist weasels like Woody Guthrie were folk heroes. I was made to sing his stupid fucking song in 2nd grade, long before I knew any better.

    God, I fucking hate the kind of shitheels who become public school teachers...

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