Front Porches Now Ground Zero in Property Rights Fight

From Minnesota to New Mexico, overreaching regulators are violating property rights.

(Page 2 of 2)

Peter and Frankie Smith fit the part perfectly in a newly contested case in New Mexico. The Army Corps of Engineers accused the retired couple of violating the Clean Water Act in mid-2011, declaring their parched desert property a water of the United States based on aerial photos, maps, and surveillance from a neighbor’s yard. According to the feds, the Smiths owned the proverbial waterfront property, classifying dry land as wet.

“They never phoned me, knocked on the door or anything like that,” said Peter Smith, a 65-year-old retiree. “They just wrote me this letter basically saying ‘you’re guilty’ and that’s all there is to it.”

The Smiths built their retirement home on 20 acres of bone-dry scrub brush and sand south of Santa Fe. In the process of cleaning up the place, Peter cleared out hundreds of dead trees and trash littering a dry ditch the feds dubbed the Gallina Arroyo. Acting on an alleged complaint, the Army Corps shot off a violation notice warning against “conducting any additional work in any stream, arroyo or wetland” without federal permission, stunning and stopping Smith in his tractor tracks.

“Somebody’s got to stop these regulators from taking people’s rights away,” Smith said. “Sitting here looking out my window, I can see probably 15-20 little beds and banks all with dead trees and garbage sitting in them.”

A retired surveyor who made his living sizing up land, Smith says the arroyo is a drainage ditch that’s dry year-around except for the rare storm in which the precipitation evaporates or seeps into the dry sand almost instantaneously. To the Army Corps, however, it’s a tributary that theoretically drains into the Rio Grande River 25 miles away, threatening the silvery minnow, a fish on the endangered species list.

“It sure appears to me they’re just after control of land,” Smith said. “They’re using the excuse it’s a water of the United States. If I went to the real estate salesman and said, ‘OK, the government has now declared I have waterfront property’, they’d laugh at me!”

A year and a half into their ordeal, the Smiths finally turned to the Pacific Legal Foundation, filing a lawsuit against the Army Corps in December 2012. The case accused the Corps of acting as a national zoning board with unlimited control over Americans’ land use, aiming for nothing short of a nationwide precedent to curtail Clean Water Act regulators.

“If the Smith’s dry creek bed really is a water of the United States under the Clean Water Act, then so is the drain in your front yard and so is the ditch in my back yard. If this is under their authority, then so is every square inch of America and legally speaking, that is not what Congress intended,” said Jennifer Fry, the Smiths’ PLF attorney.

The Albuquerque office of Army Corps of Engineers did not respond to requests for comment. Yet soon after the Smiths case went public, the Army Corps claim came and went as abruptly as a desert derecho. In March the agency withdrew its classification of the Smiths’ property.

“This episode should put the federal government on notice,” Fry said. ”If they try this ploy again — if they try, in effect, to seize private property by conjuring up a mirage of water where there isn’t any — PLF is ready to fight them in court, anywhere in the country.”

Increasingly, the case can be made that like politics, all property rights are local, regardless of the level of government jurisdiction involved. No wonder that city, state, and federal authorities across the county are closely tracking a Minnesota court ruling expected soon on the constitutional challenge brought by Dean and two other homeowners in January.

Win or lose, Dean will never get back his foreclosed house or an estimated $50,000 he invested.
“I’ve lost my house, I’ve lost my equity, that can’t be reversed and I understand and realize that,” Dean said. “The lawsuit is to bring justice back to the citizens of Winona.”

This article originally appeared at Watchdog.org.

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  • Ted S.||

    "If this is under their authority, then so is every square inch of America and legally speaking, that is not what Congress intended," said Jennifer Fry, the Smiths' PLF attorney.

    It's precisely what Congress intended.

  • ||

    Those slavemaking degenerates dishonor their offices with every breath they take within the walls of the Capitol.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Remember The Battle of San Jacinto!

  • hdson81||

    Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job Ive had. Last Monday I got a new Alfa Romeo from bringing in $7778. I started this 9 months ago and practically straight away started making more than $83 per hour. I work through this link, http://www.g00.me/Work

  • Robert||

    No, it's clearly not what Congress intended, and indeed they'd've voted against it had it been read that way at the time. An amendment to make it explicitly read that way would've been considered a crippling amendment to sink it, if you'll pardon the pun.

  • Ted S.||

    Dean’s property rights became collateral damage when Winona implemented what’s believed to be the nation’s first comprehensive rental cap ordinance . The 2006 law restricts rentals to 30 percent of properties per block to curb “excessive on-street parking, anti-social behavior and deteriorating housing conditions” in the college community.

    Sure, this will never be abused.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    It's the old tried and true "I've got mine, now fuck you."

  • ||

    I want to it clearly shown to me what constitutional doctrine permits the regulation of private property by the government.

  • ||

    *minus first "to"

  • Ted S.||

    Commerce Clause!

    The "Fuck you, that's why!" clause

    The 12th Amendment.

    Take your pick.

  • WomSom||

    Lets roll that beautiful bean footage!

    www.Ano-Surf.tk

  • ||

    I thought the bot was broken, but Urban Dictionary suggest it's just really, really disgusting, even if UD can't agree exactly which way this is gross.

  • ||

    If you let people calling you Cheerwine force a handle change, the terrorists win.

  • ||

    Eh, I was thinking about simplifying anyway.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Last year I finally sold off a piece of land that the Army Corp of Engineers decided was "navigable waters." The bottoms of two ditches are the only parts of it lower than 12 feet above MHW.
    All of this was because they found some ferns on the property. Now I spray Roundup on every fern I see. I can't afford to lose the property I have now.

  • SIV||

    Why did you let them on the property to do a wetlands survey in the first place?

  • ||

    That's what I was thinking. Next time they show up at your doorstep, tell to fuck right off, and tell them you'll have them arrested for trespassing if they persist (preferably while you're wearing a highly visible, black, tactically outfitted handgun on your hip).

  • db||

    Yeah, going tacticool really helps the situation. It's your right and all, but may not be the smartest move.

  • ||

    If you can, also bring your militia buddies over fully geared and armed to intimidate the federales.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Why did you let them on the property to do a wetlands survey in the first place?

    I doubt they actually stepped foot on my property before I challenged it all. I simply received a letter advising me that any land modifications may expose me to massive fines and criminal charges. They essentially condemned about 100 acres, and my 6 acres were caught along one edge. I tried many things, including suing to try to find out the legal status of the land.
    Then about two years ago the local hunt club offered to buy it from me to add to their land. I sold it just to stop paying taxes on it.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    The next time anybody (especially a fed, most especially a member of Congress) mentions "navigable waters" ask them where that is mentioned in the Constitution. When they parrot "Article 1, Section 8" ask which clause.

    It came from an 1899 Supreme Court ruling piggybacking on the Commerce Clause.

  • John||

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....0-04-06-45

    Thank you pro pot losers for confirming every single stereotype put forth by the drug warriors. The pro pot movement is really the fucking worst. I hate those people. Thank you so much for discrediting yourselves and legalization.

  • Gene||

    Alas the movement does seem to be fronted mostly by flakes.

  • John||

    Just losers. These people are about on the level of juggalos.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    It's because the only people who speak out are the ones with nothing to lose.

    You won't see doctors or lawyers or government officials or high profile bankers manning the wall because they can lose everything they've ever worked for.

  • SIV||

    Rapper Lil' Flip was performing when the shootings occurred.

    *dog whistles*

  • John||

    A lot of black people smoke weed. More so than white people I think. It would be nice if that would ever translate into them voting anything but uniform Dem.

  • Brett L||

    The surveys say percent usage is slightly higher in whites than blacks across all age groups and both genders. Were there no racial or socioeconomic effect in pot convictions, there should be twice as many white people in prison for pot offenses as black, due to the fact that there are twice as many white people as black in the country.

  • Ted S.||

    I think the ratio is slightly more than 2:1.

  • ||

    If 6:1 is slightly more, sure.

    This is the most bizarre mistake I've ever seen on here.

  • cavalier973||

    Why is there the distinction "non-Hispanic Asian"?

  • Calidissident||

    Because some (very few, but they do exist) Asians are Hispanic. Hispanic is not a racial term. If you're ancestors moved from Asia to a Spanish-speaking country and then later moved to the US, you are a Hispanic Asian.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah. Is Alberto Fujimori an Asian or a Hispanic?

  • Calidissident||

    Virginian, he's both

  • Virginian||

    UNPOSSIBLE!!! I have been assured someone can only be one race!

    Mind exploding!!!

  • Robert||

    It's like when I wondered whether Wee Radio was East Indian or West Indian, and I realized it's both. It caters to people whose families moved from India to the SE Caribbean -- Guyana, Trinidad & Tobago -- and in some cases on from there to NYC & elsewhere. Cool. They're on weekends on WNYZ, channel 6 DTV or 87.7 MHz FM, and streaming and taking comments online somewhere, plus part of the time networked with one of a rotating set of sister stns. in the SE Caribbean. But their FM frequency (given some places as 87.75 rather than 87.7) apparently can't be tuned by most digitally tuned receivers. They stayed NTSC for a long time as the last such VHF channel in NYC, but I think now they're DTV.

  • ||

    Philippino?

  • SIV||

    Tagalog is not Spanish

  • John||

    This will never happen. But imagine if say 40% of black people voted Libertarian because of legalized pot and school choice. The Dems would shit a brick and become totally pro legalized pot, anti drug war and pro school choice over night.

  • Robert||

    Or...they would pick up another voter segment that was anti-those things and maybe anti-black.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    like who? they might go back to their kkk roots...

  • Gorilla tactics||

    THERE IS NO LEAVING THE PLANTATION BOY!!!

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    So you think pot smokers decided to open fire on their own event? I'm not a pot smoker, but between the times I grew up in and the industry I worked in, I've known plenty of them. Violence just doesn't fit the profile. I think it's more likely somebody who doesn't want pot to stay legal there. I'm thinking it might be drug dealer gang members who are watching their money and power fade away under legalization.

  • John||

    No. You have to remember the pot culture isn't just dirty white hippies. A lot of black people smoke pot. And this was the result of it being a rap concert.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    True, most of the pot smokers I have known were college students, dirty white hippies, rednecks or working-class "R&B" or "smoothe jazz" blacks. Most of those blacks would have looked at a gun in a holster like you might look at a live grenade with the pin out.

    What little exposure I've had to rap, it seems they actually invite in the violent criminals. It's almost as if being a gang member was just another profession, like they made mattresses for a living.

  • Virginian||

    Most of those blacks would have looked at a gun in a holster like you might look at a live grenade with the pin out.

    With hopeful anticipation that I might get to throw one next?

  • cavalier973||

  • SIV||

    Violence just doesn't fit the profile

    The younger Chechen Bomb Brother is reportedly an avid weed smoker

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    He is also as Caucasian as you can get.

  • Paul.||

    I aee what you did there.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Violence just doesn't fit the profile

    The younger Chechen Bomb Brother is reportedly an avid weed smoker

    And according to initial reports, the Columbine killers were part of the Trench Coat Mafia, were bullied by other students and they targeted popular jocks, African-Americans and other groups. Except, of course, it wasn't so.

    And does they "avid weed smoker" fit with the "Jihad" bit?

  • SIV||

    Hashishin/Assasin

    Why, yes it does!

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Did Denver get locked down with those dangerous shooters on the loose?

  • John||

    No. You only lock a city down when there are rampaging cops on the lose. If you notice in Boston, they lifted the lockdown after the cops got off the streets. That was to protect the people from trigger happy cops not criminals.

  • ||

  • dinkster||

    Gang thug vatos shooting people has fuck all to do with "pot smoking losers"

  • Wind Rider||

    Thank you pro pot losers for confirming every single stereotype put forth by the drug warriors. The pro pot movement is really the fucking worst. I hate those people. Thank you so much for discrediting yourselves and legalization.

    No, thank YOU Mr. Jackass bigoted troll, for trying to discredit . . .well, humanity. Douche.

  • ||

    A man and a woman each suffered non-life threatening gunshot wounds, officials said. Local media reports said a third person was grazed.

    Several thought firecrackers were being set off, then a man fell bleeding, his dog also shot.

    Poor aim and a dog was shot? Cops. Why would you jump to violent, pot-smoking blacks when you have cops running a false flag as an equally neat and more Reasonable theory?

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Thank you pro marathon losers for confirming every single stereotype put forth by the running warriors. The pro marathon movement is really the fucking worst. I hate those people. Thank you so much for discrediting yourselves and legalization.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    But don't you see this was gun violence, which as you know in your heart of hearts is so much worse than bomb violence.

  • Robert||

    I think you need better descriptors. "Pro marathon losers" to me means professional marathon runners who finish out of the money.

  • ||

    In order for the comparison to be relevant, wouldn't the Boston bombers have to have been involved in the marathon?

    It's always fun to watch the Reason marijuana mafia go batshit at the suggestion that being stoned out of your mind might somehow be correlated with impaired judgment. "NEVAR! MARIJUANA IS SAFER THAN TAP WATER YOU AUTHORITARIAN FUCK STICK COP FLUFFER DRUG WARRIOR SLAVER! ERRYDAY!!!! 420 BLAZE IT FAGGOT!!!!!!!!one!11!eleventy!!!"

  • ||

    (I fully support legalization of marijuana and every other recreational drug including "hard" drugs btw. I'm just not fucking retarded about the consequences.)

  • mad libertarian guy||

    FTA:

    Witnesses described a scene in which a jovial atmosphere quickly turned to one of panic at the downtown Civic Center Park just before 5 p.m. Several thought firecrackers were being set off, then a man fell bleeding, his dog also shot.

    Cops.

  • DJF||

    Jeep uses it taxpayer bailed out property rights to move some production to China. I wonder if the news media will apologize to Romney when they said that his statement that Jeep would be moving to China was one of his biggest lies?

    """Jeep looks to make an SUV in China by end 2014: executive"""

    http://news.yahoo.com/jeep-loo.....nance.html

  • John||

    Right after they apologize for telling the country Obamacare was necessary to bend the cost curve of healthcare.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Oh, it bent the cost curve. Just not the direction they claimed.

  • ||

    +10 Internets.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until it is free.

  • ||

    I love the Jeep Grand Cherokee, but if I can help it, I'll never buy a Chinese-made car.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I think the Jeep operations in China are going to be for the Chinese market. Vehicles built for that market do not require all the crap that the USA requires, so theoretically adding all the crap for the US will make a gray market Chinese Jeep pretty expensive.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Romney's lie was in saying Jeep was moving ALL PRODUCTION to China. It earned him the Lie of the Year Award and possibly cost him Ohio when the Jeep CEO confirmed the lie.

    http://www.politifact.com/trut.....eps-China/

    Don't Fat Rush this (stumble on the details).

  • John||

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuGtxt84wPQ

    BUSHPIG!!! CHRISTFAG!!

    Let it out shreek let it out.

  • ||

    Best vehicles we ever had? The OLD Cherokee. Had two of them. Drove one till it died at 225k miles. NEVER had a problem. Extremely inexpensive. Went anywhere. Outstanding clearance. Near perfect vehicle.

    I cried the day they stopped making them. Jeep has made overpriced, yuppie shit ever since. I don't know why they abandoned that market?

  • John||

    How old? I always liked the old CJ 5s and 7s. My older brother had one that was indestructible. The Wrangler was a sorry replacement.

  • ||

    Wife owned a CJ-5 for a while. Ragtop, no heat, 8 MPG. But fun. I rolled it on a slick highway on my way to skiing. Couple of guys ran over to help. We flipped it right side up and I started it up and drove it to the next town.

    We bought our Cherokees in the early 90s.

  • John||

    They rolled quite easily but they were fun. And basically solid steel. They weighed a ton. My brother's CJ 7 had a V8 in it. I would be surprised if it got 8 mpg.

  • AlmightyJB||

    My wife hit one when the cherokee went through a red light. Low speed collision. Cherokee was on it's side.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    I'm with you. I bought a Cherokee in '87, the last year AMC made them. Made it to almost 200K miles. I miss that Jeep.

    And now, as you say, Jeeps are yup-mobiles. Sad.

  • Wind Rider||

    Yes, the gentrified, never off a paved surface Chrysler designed vehicles bearing the Jeep logo have given rise in my personal vocabulary to the acronym JDM - "Jeep driving moron". It's a safe bet that if there's a really stupid driving move possible, they'll accomplish it. But it's ok, cause they're in a JEEP!

  • Stormy Dragon||

    I don't know why they abandoned that market?

    Because people were driving them until they died at 225k miles instead of buying new ones?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    The old "planned obsolescence" theory proposed by the FDR administration for "stimulus."

    In a free market, it does not work. In a post FDR "market" it can work just fine.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah the old "planned obsolescence" bullshit. Toyota got to be number one in the world by making cars that ran forever. People love that about cars. Even if you don't drive it forever, you can get a nice chunk of change out of it by selling it when you're ready to make a change.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    I loved my cheap, little blue Toyota Pickup. Yep, "Pickup" was the model name. Toss a hundred pounds of wood into that two-wheel-drive truck and it would drive in the snow right past the four-wheel drive trucks sitting in the ditches.

    The '97 Tacoma I replaced it with is reliable enough, but it will not go uphill on snow. I take it on dump trips. My youngest drives it to and from school and what little other driving she does. That's about all it's good for.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    My son has a newish Tundra, looks like a good truck.

    Their attempts at SUVs seem lacking.

  • Virginian||

    I had a Mazda, I got run off the road. Bitch stopped to see if I was ok, then left before the cops got there. I bought a Ford with the insurance payout. Never buying a fucking American car again.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    I bought a Ford with the insurance payout. Never buying a fucking American car again.

    I was driving a Ford Ranger when the whole shifter came out of the floor as I put it in third gear. I almost ran off the road gaping at it. There not being much traffic in those days, I managed to drive it to the nearest Ford dealer. It all rotated about a plastic piece, which had broken up. "You were too rough with it."

    So I got it fixed. Less than a year later it happened again except I rigged it up to work well enough to get it to another dealership. "Normal wear."

    I bought my old Toyota pickup the next weekend and drove it over 400,000 miles, changing the oil once a year.

  • Virginian||

    Seriously. Of all the stupid shit I hear from Murrica tards, the Murrican cars shit will make me rage harder then anyone else. Now maybe trucks are still better from Ford. But if you're buying a sedan or any kind of hatchback/car bodied crossover/station wagon, you would be retarded not to buy a Japanese one. They're head and shoulders above the rest.

  • sloopyinca||

    ...a Japanese one. They're head and shoulders above the rest.

    I'm sorry, what was that?

    /The Germans

  • Virginian||

    I'm sorry, what was that?

    /The Germans

    Oh sorry I forgot you're one of those 1%ers.

  • sloopyinca||

    I wish. I drive a Chevy Silverado and Banjos drives a Nissan.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I don't remember any good German pickup trucks.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    My son has a newish Tundra, looks like a good truck.

    It's pretty too, I bet. Once they fixed the funny vibration from the A-frame chassis, nice truck. Just a lot more truck than I need.

  • Unindicted Co-conspirator||

    The RAV4 is actually pretty awesome. The Highlander less so.

  • Paul.||

    Best vehicles we ever had? The OLD Cherokee. Had two of them. Drove one till it died at 225k miles

    Hmph, should have gotten more than that.

  • John||

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/167488/

    The KOCHTOPUS!!! Corporate media!!! Oh noes.

    I love it. The Reason squirrels consider the NYT to be spam and won't take links from it.

  • John||

    And at the NYT article linked from instapundit above, there are comments.

    aliently tryingMichigan
    The Koch borthers are hell bent on owning the US. At what cost to the rest of us.

    Heres how the Koch borthers work. In Gaylord Michigan their Georgia Pacific factory was closed with out notice. One Monday morning the 200+ workers were LOCKED OUT.

    Suddenly no job with no warning. It takes more than a day to plan a closing but had they told the employees they might have found other jobs ---- can't let that happen as must keep the company making money for the Koch brothers until the last minute.

    200 + families with no income OVERNIGHT. No biggies to the Koch brothers. Let the late employees struggle. p.s. it was a non union plant so can't be blamed on the union.

    Pretty frightening to think these souless money grubbing brothers now want to own the news. Hate to think of what they can do with that.

    BWAAAAAA

  • Cdr Lytton||

    That NYT comment doesn't pass the smell test. Unless it fell into one of the exceptions, there's a 60 day notice under the WARN Act in there somewhere.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    The downturn in the housing market killed it. The US market for particleboard and MDF, which the Gaylord plant produced has been decreasing for some time. High production costs and decreased lumber production limit the availability of wood fiber and resin.
    Why make something people don't want, and that's getting more expensive to make?

    I don't know about no warning, but they should have seen it coming.

  • db||

    Pretty much. Employers have no duty to continue making unsaleable product merely to keep their folks employed. Sometimes manufacturers keep skeleton crews around to make sure a facility is available if a temporary downturn reverses itself, but expecting a company to keep full staffing to do nothing, or worse, produce product that will sit in a warehouse for years is unreasonable.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    That is why the Soviets will bury us any day now. They care about people & jobs, not moving inventory.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    I remember reading several years ago that the site was being used for lumber manufacturing, bio-fuels, and biomass electrical generation. I would have thought they would approve of the Kochs leaving and being replaced with "green" industry.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Yeah, not the article I was talking about, but an earlier one on the same subject:

    http://articles.petoskeynews.c.....t_24093539

  • ||

    Ask him if he's a member of the United American Union of Internet Concern Trolls, Local 1241.

  • John||

    The WaPO and NYT commentariats are hysterical. You have to laugh at them or you will cry from the thought of their being that many angry, stupid people out there.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Before I found reason, I was worried that I was the only person who thought the way I do. Now, I know there are at least 20 others that think along my libertarian ways. Thanks reason!

  • EnglishCuckoo||

    Likewise. At least you guys have some kind of geographical solidarity. Over here in Nudge-Land, UK, someone who sees what the Emperor is really wearing can end up feeling very lonely. Here not even the police have guns routinely (maybe not a bad thing entirely given they shoot electricians when they do carry) and everyone is 'vulnerable' (so long as they belong to a special victim group) = lots of taxpayers' money as a right. Hell, we can't even deport suspected terrorists who aren't British citizens for trial to Jordan, let alone sundry murderers, rapists, paedophiles once they've completed their prison sentences because it's against their 'human rights'.

  • AuH20||

    A Brit on reason?

    God, man, I feel so bad about what has happened to your country.

  • Best Of All Possible Tyrannies||

    Before I found reason

    Can you imagine how it felt living two hours from DC back in the '70s?

  • sloopyinca||

    Can you imagine how it felt living two hours from DC back in the '70s?

    Where did you live, Tyson's Corner?

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Can you imagine how it felt living two hours from DC back in the '70s?

    Where did you live, Tyson's Corner?

    I didn't realize how much worse DC traffic had gotten until I went to Fairfax recently. WOW!

  • Brendan||

    My favorite used to be the 'Super stars' at the huffingandpuffing post.

    Between them and the commenters at slate.com, I finally made up my mind to stop visiting those sites altogether.

  • ||

    How far are they going to go until it’s not the good, old USA anymore?

    Surpassed that point long ago.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Nice. Fox is interviewing Feinstein and King. Now we'll get to the bottom of this.

  • John||

    That must be quite a cripple fight.

  • SIV||

    That Mudd guy is way too defensive calling them kids and comparing it ti Columbine. Agent provacateur sting/intelligence asset gone bad is looking more and more likely.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Nobody plays that role better than Roger C. Carmel. Nobody!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    without a license to attract buyers interested in rental investments the market value of Dean’s house plummeted by an estimated $25,000. He had a house that could neither be rented nor sold.

    Something similar happened to me in 2007 when the SCAQMD revised a regulation on permissible VOC emission levels that effectively made it illegal to operate machinery used by my business and at the same time destroyed the resale market for that machinery. Bankrupted my business, with the loss of dozens of jobs (and dozens of others business and hundreds of jobs that I'm aware of) and the air is no cleaner now than it was in 2006.

  • ||

    It looks like it may be time for you to move to Texas.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    This why our clean air acts don't work! TEXAS and the KOCHTOPUS!!!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The main thing keeping me in CA are family ties and a couple of local businesses that would be hard to relocate.

    My wife used to hate the idea of leaving but she's been warming up to it the last few years.

  • ||

    As soon as Texas legalizes open carry, I might move myself. MEET YOU AT THE BORDER.

  • John||

    But VOCS, SMOG. It is a testament to how stupid the EPA is that they actually thought they could control smog by regulating lawn mowers.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    And paint drying (literally), dry cleaners, residential fireplaces; not to mention small manufacturers that they've mostly chased out of CA.

    They're completely insane.

  • John||

    Yes they are. They cleaned up the smog in CA when they cleaned up car emissions. But they couldn't stop. No one ever wants to say the air is clean enough. So they just kept looking for ways to do it and it quickly got insane.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    But they couldn't stop.

    That's the problem with all the enviro regs. They start with a few that have huge positive impacts, like keeping the Cuyahoga river from catching fire or saving bald eagle from extinction, but keep metastasizing to the point that they'll kill millions of acres of farmland to save a bait fish and throws tens of millions of people out of work for imperceptible improvements in air or water quality.

    And it's done with a web of hundreds of thousands of interlocking regs that (usually) each only cost a small amount, so that people just shrug their shoulders when I point out the damage caused by them.

  • wareagle||

    if you presume enviro regs are about the environment, then there may some benefit to them. But that is never the ultimate goal. These folks are not merely for clean water and air - and who, by the way, is against those things - they are for the deconstruction of capitalism and our relatively comfortable way of life.

  • ||

    they are for the deconstruction of capitalism

    I'm not convinced that's their goal. A strategy like that would require a functioning brain, which few, if any, progs have. I certainly agree that it will be the end result of their shortsightedness. They will kill the goose laying the shiny eggs.

  • wareagle||

    progs are not noted for their farsightedness. This is the same group that things more background checks are all that stands between another Sandy Hook.

    Their delusion would make them entertaining if it was no so destructive. Just look how many Dems have religion on Obamacare, to include Max Baucus who wrote much of it.

  • wareagle||

    progs are not noted for their farsightedness. This is the same group that things more background checks are all that stands between another Sandy Hook.

    Their delusion would make them entertaining if it was no so destructive. Just look how many Dems have religion on Obamacare, to include Max Baucus who wrote much of it.

  • ||

    Old Maxy is positioning himself for his upcoming election. He's a Blue Senator in a Reddish state. He can't go full Blue and stay in office.

    I'm thinking the Obamacare thing is going to backfire on him. His opponent will simply point out that Max WROTE IT.

  • Ted S.||

    These folks are not merely for clean water and air - and who, by the way, is against those things

    Aren't all good libertarians against clean air and water?

    Am I the only one who uses his child labor to pee in the water supply?

  • Ruckus||

    That's the problem with every governmental office/administration. They can't stop, they must keep pushing too far to justify their existence.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    they'll kill millions of acres of farmland to save a bait fish and throws tens of millions of people out of work for imperceptible improvements in air or water quality

    If you're referring to the smelt thing, I'm glad. I'm not really sorry for people who wanted to grow fruit trees in the middle of a fucking desert and thinks this obligates taxpayers to give them free water.

    But once again, people keep telling me government subsidy is libertarian when it's subsidizing Republican voters.

  • Virginian||

    If it was a choice between Save the Smelt!!! and no government water infrastructure at all, I'd be with you.

    But the damns are not going to be destroyed or sold to private interests who will be allowed to charge market rates. If we're going to have a massive expensive federal water engineering program, I want to recoup some of the costs with productive economic activity.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    The farmers are free to bring in water from other sources at market prices. If their farms aren't competitive once they have to deal with the actual cost of irrigating them, it's hard for me to feel sorry for them.

    And fishing is economic activity too. No one really cares about the smelt; they care about the commercial fish that eat the smelt and will disappear if they all die off because farmers apparently think they have the right to the entire Colorado river.

    It's a classic tragedy of common situation: the farmers could get water free and kept using more and more until there was none left. But the response by the right is 180 from what it would normally be entirely because they're a reliable TEAM RED voting block.

  • Virginian||

    So what you're saying is the fishermen have better lobbyists?

  • sloopyinca||

    Stormy Dragon, you're so ignorant of the situation I almost feel sorry for you. And not a drop of this water comes from the Colorado River basin, as the continental divide of the Sierras keeps it all east of the central valley, with only southern California dipping its beak in the Colorado River basin.

    You might want to use google before you denigrate the good farmers of the valley that negotiated the water rights in good faith, only to get fucked over by the state.

  • sloopyinca||

    Stormy Dragon, you're pretty wrong on this "free water" claim. Those farmers on the west side of the valley contracted their water rights fair and square under the existing scheme put in place. The played the game in good faith and the state pulled the rug out from under them and refused to pump the contracted water their way. They pay for their water, by the way and the state's claim that they won't be charged for what they son't get is spurious at best. Those guys not only agreed to pay for the water, but they bought their land, the trees and the equipment on the premise that they'd be able to irrigate it and sell their crops (mostly nuts).

    Also, it wasn't a "desert" until the water was diverted away from it by the state in the first place. The west side of the valley tended to be swampy and there are loads of dry lake beds that have been dry for less than 120 years.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    But they couldn't stop.

    That's how the progs are on every subject. Honestly, I could put up with most of their shit if they just knew when to quit. But even when they win on an issue they can't declare victory and move on; they've got to immediately start working on putting another twist on the knife. That's why it's utterly futile to try to reach a compromise with them.

  • Ted S.||

    Even a worthy organization like the March of Dimes morphed from trying to find a cure for polio to being against birth defects.

  • robc||

    Seems there would be a legitimate takings clause argument there.

  • Robert||

    What machinery was that, and what VOCs did it emit?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    King:

    "Are you nuts? OF COURSER HE'LL BE CONVICTED!"

    We're just waiting for the announcement of the execution date, I guess.

    Now he's saying the country is overrun with terrorbombers.

  • John||

    You don't get to be in Congress because you have a lot of imagination.

  • Ted S.||

  • The Late P Brooks||

    You know you're doomed when Diane Feinstein comes off as the rational, reasonable one.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The world is right side up, again. Feinstein doesn't think those people in Boston should have been allowed to defend themselves with scary assault weapons.

    And besides, the police were on the job. At overtime rates. No need to fear.

  • John||

    That is right. It is not like the cops didn't find the guy, were about to go home, told the proles to come out of their homes only to have one of the proles find him or anything.

  • ||

    If only they'd sent in the armored cavalry, they'd have found him without the assistance of a plebeian.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Cameras everywhere; we must keep our boot firmly on the neck of the populace.

    Holy shit, who's this crazy fucker calling those two guys "murderers" instead of "Terrrrrrorists!!111111"?

  • John||

    Come on Brooks. They were just a couple of crazy kids who were trying to get a job in academia. Things got out of hand. Mistakes were made. They didn't do enough. Give them a break.

    http://m.nypost.com/;s=O4JROaO.....bO1NheqNL#

  • ||

    I'll give them a break just as the surviving brother's lifeless corpse is being removed off of an electric chair.

  • John||

    That bitch at Columbia is just as bad as these guys. She was just incompetent at making bombs. It is unbelievable she is not rotting in a super max somewhere.

  • Mike M.||

    I hope you're a patient man, because you're going to be waiting a very, very long time.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I predict the kid will be a professor by the end of the decade and I predicted that when he was still evading capture.

  • SIV||

    He's trying to "steer the conversation" away from intelligence/counter intelligence and the FBI sting gone bad.

  • SIV||

    (like anyone would bring that up on Fox News)

  • John||

    Or any news network.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Before I found reason, I was worried that I was the only person who thought the way I do. Now, I know there are at least 20 others that think along my libertarian ways. Thanks reason!

    This should be on billboards all across America.

  • Paul.||

    Today, the Reason comment boards... tomorrow... more Reason comment boards.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    That's the problem with all the enviro regs. They start with a few that have huge positive impacts, like keeping the Cuyahoga river from catching fire or saving bald eagle from extinction, but keep metastasizing to the point that they'll kill millions of acres of farmland to save a bait fish and throws tens of millions of people out of work for imperceptible improvements in air or water quality.

    They have no grasp of the notion of "marginal gain". It's not their money, they don't care if the regs cause people to spend millions for gains measurable in the hundreds.

  • John||

    Don't you care about the earth? You monster

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Bill Kristol:

    "That kid actually went outside the boundaries of the United states. If that's not an Enemy Combatant, what is? Let's torture the fucker until he tells us what we want to hear."

  • John||

    Oh for the love of God. These guys are LPRs, we caught them in the US, all of the evidence is easily obtainable and the case easy to make, who the fuck cares if they are enemy combatants? You can try him here. If you are worried about what he knows, agree not to seek the death penalty on the condition he talks.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    No shit. All you crazy people who said that the NDAA could be applied to Americans are just crazy.

    No problem trying McVeigh and Sheik Abdul Rahman who killed and injured far more people. The real rationale seems to be FYTW and use it or lose it.

    Caught Sen. Manboobs on TV this morning appearing next to McCain's sidekick: "He should get the death penalty!" Hey Boobs, NY eliminated the death penalty, how come you're not representing the "will" of the NY people on that issue? Oh, that only applies to gun control.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Maybe my memory is bad, but I don't remember the government announcing that they did not plan on Mirandizing a suspect before the little professor-to-be came along.

  • sloopyinca||

    Why do you want the terrorists to win, AA?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    He is still a terrorist? Just wait until the end of the month.

    By 2018 he will be sitting in the Distinguished Obama Chair for Peace Studies at the Boston U College of Communications.

  • AuH20||

    These people do realize they look like assholes, right?

    Man, if I ever meet a member of the pundit class, words will be exchanged.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    So am I an enemy combatant since I went on my high school class's trip to Germany in 1994?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I caught the tail end of Hipster Douchebag Focus Group this morning; holy shit, MSNBC and their house Democrats have come completely unglued over that Senate gun vote. Joan Walsh was on, bitching about Heidi Whatshername for voting Nay. That bitch is a traitor to her sex; how dare she not vote the way Joan Walsh thinks she should?

  • John||

    They are coming unglued. Not only did it fail, there isn't a damned thing they can do about it. No one is going to lose an election for killing that thing and a few might for supporting it. Impotent rage is just so fun when its coming from liberals.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    Impotent rage is just so fun when its coming from liberals.

    It's not only fun, it's also revealing. You can tell how they really feel about gun owners at a time like this: the seething rabid hatred bursts free.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    That's why I dress accordingly when I go to liberal places.

    I'm gong to CA in 3 weeks for a couple of days to visit a buddy and see a concert. I've decided that I'm going to wear provocative clothes specifically as a cultural marker that I am not one of them.

    My choice: a "Got Guns?" T-shirt from Bud's Gun Shop and a camo Tractor Supply hat.

  • General Butt Naked||

    If you're under thirty and skinny, they'll probably just mistake you for an "ironic" hipster.

  • Gorilla tactics||

    yeah and don't forget to wear a palestinian kafayeh...you know, for the struggle

  • AuH20||

    Is that the one from one of the Dakotas?

    Its weird: The Democrats took back the House in 2006 by finally being willing to back Blue Dogs, dropping talk on guns, and keeping it all about Iraq and Katrina and BOOOOOSH!

    But it only took 6 years before they just couldn't help themselves, and decided to be just a regional party without any of those nasty Flyover Country Senators and Congressmen.

  • Virginian||

    Ummm...that's what they always do man. The Democratic playbook is:

    1. get elected by outright lying about their plans. FDR promised to balance the budget and cut spending in his first election. He did the exact opposite. Wilson promised to keep us out of WWI. LBJ promised to continue the moderate policies of JFK.

    2. Once you have the chance, pass massive socialist legislation. Slam it through by any means necessary. Demagogue the shit out of any opposition, use the compliant media to propagandize, just get it done.

    3. Take the backlash. Lose seats, lose the White House, maybe even totally lose Congress. But loudly insist that it was the fault of corporate, moneyed interests in a reactionary kneejerk attempting to turn back the clock and overturn the will of the people.

    4. Watch as the idiot Republicans do their job: raise taxes to pay for the welfare state. Loudly complain about the spending and the deficit, and begin talking up your moderate creds. Wait for the GOP to screw up mightily, and ride that back into power. Then go back to step one.

  • AuH20||

    I think you missed some steps.

    Between steps 1 and 2, they convince themselves that the new piece of massive socialist legislation will mean a permanant majority for them for a generation. Make sure to bring up FDR and the Dems domination of Congress post-New Deal.

    And between steps 2 and 3, "Be mystified at the public backlash to your new piece of socialistic legislation, blame it on the ignorance of the people fostered by corporate interests."

    I just think you ascribe them too much intelligence. Individual politicians are too self interested to go about the steps as you put them, where they know it will fuck them over personally but will push the country in a more socialistic direction. No, the worse part is that they legitimately think that they are doing the will of the people and will be rewarded for doing so. That is why they keep parroting that 90% talking point so hard. Because for their political view to work, they need to be doing The Will of the People™.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    An overarching principle is "baseline legislation" (IIRC, Sheldon Richman coined that). Whenever one of the bad laws is not having the desired statist effect, propose a new more outlandish law but NEVER allow discussion about repealing the last one.

    We see that today in government marriage and gun control. The only big advances on liberty in the past 50 years have been in education, with religious motivated home-schoolers running circles around the pragmatic Chicago School voucher peddlers.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Speaking of "uncivil discourse" and eliminationist rhetoric, what will the corporate response from MSNBC when somebody firebombs the office of one of those traitorous Democrats who stabbed America in the back by voting against those sensible gun safety regs?

  • AuH20||

    It hasn't been blamed on left-wingers since the 70s.

    Ecoterrorists, remember, are not left wing. Heck, they aren't even associated with the environmental movement, which is peaceful and rational even when people within it advocate culling the human herd.

    So, it will be right wingers, who are so angry that those people even considered a vote restricting their precious GUNZ!!!

  • Virginian||

    Racism, violence, and hatred are objectively rightwing. Thus anyone who is a racist, or violent, or practices hatred is a rightwinger.

  • AuH20||

    Thank you, Richard Hoffstader aka the worst fucking political scientist/historian of all goddamn time.

  • Virginian||

    Dude, that's a tough competition, and I think Marx always wins it.

  • AuH20||

    Well, if we really want to survey the sweep of history and include people who were not regarded, in their time, as political scientists (because the term had been invented, although I would say Marx was more of a political theorist. And he did get a few things right, like the whole slavery to feudalism to capitalism transition) the worst of those fuckers is Rousseau, who basically laid the groundwork for every "trying to make people better by force" fucker from the French Revolution on.

  • Virginian||

    Oh Rousseau is up there for sure. I mean, the guy was a worthless sonofabitch in every way there is.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    These film clips of the people cheering on the sidewalks are really creeping me out.

  • db||

  • ||

    No, not at all.

  • db||

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    SugarFree'd

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Now the guys on ABC says "People are very concerned about the amount of guns and ammo those guys had."

    HOBGOBLINS!!!!

    BE AFRAID, AMERICA. BE VERY VERY AFRAID.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Now we've got a guy saying, "I don't understand why there haven't been dozens and dozens of attacks like this in the past ten years."

    He sounds disappointed.

  • AuH20||

    I honestly don't either.

    Seriously, terrorists got a weird obsession with airplanes post 9/11. If it was really terror, fear, and mass amounts of bodies, all they would have needed to do was to drive a car loaded with explosives into the tail gating area of a Michigan-Ohio State game. Hell, those areas let you bring in propane for grilling, so you could even sneak quite a bit of explosive material in there without anyone getting suspicious.

    This is also why the government had better never go full tyranny: Terrorists have, to this point, been dumb losers. But if the government ever did something to radicalize a significant chunk of the populace, all hell would break loose, because we'd suddenly have smart terrorists.

  • ||

    If it was really terror, fear, and mass amounts of bodies, all they would have needed to do was to drive a car loaded with explosives into the tail gating area of a Michigan-Ohio State game.

    Eh, bad example. I'm pretty sure nationwide the rejoicing would greatly outweigh any negative feelings.

  • Ted S.||

    Now you've done it. You've gone and pissed off Sloopy.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm gonna go smash an astronaut's mailbox now. Yo all can feel free to blame Zakalwe.

  • ||

    I always cry when the good guys lose at the end of Black Sunday.

  • ||

    Yep

    The actions taken after 9-11 provide the illusion of safety. Small numbers of people can cause a whole lot of damage and there is little that can be done to stop them.

    The only way to defeat terrorism is to not fear it. Spending billions is futile. Too many targets to defend.

  • Virginian||

    Oh there are certainly things you can do. Be vigilant. Be armed. Know how to perform first aid, how to fight fires, how to communicate in an emergency. Have a plan.

    Terrorism is like a lighting strike or a shark attack. I don't let a fear of lighting or sharks control my life. But I don't golf in thunderstorms, and I don't swim in the ocean with an open wound.

  • ||

    Concur.

  • AuH20||

    I think one of the most interesting lessons we learned on 9/11 is that the best defense against terrorists is the other passengers.

    Pre-9/11, everyone thought that if the plane is hijacked, you just land in some shit hole African country and are ransomed off. But a few weeks after 9/11, when Richard Reed tried to set off that shoe bomb, the passengers tied his dumb ass down and went back to watching their movie until they landed. Now, if a plane were ever taken over, rushing the cockpit would be the instinct of most of the passengers.

    And none of that required government intervention.

  • Virginian||

    Their new awesome "turn a jetliner into a cruise missile" tactic was viable for about an hour and a half. Flight 93's citizens gathered information, elected leadership, formed a plan of action, and carried it out while W was still reading My Pet Goat.

    The militia is and has always been the best defense of a free state.

  • AuH20||

    I once met a guy who was friends with a guy who was on Flight 93. A Cal Rugby player. He is apparently one of the voices you can hear on the black box because he was one of the leaders of the charge.

    PROTIP: Don't fuck with Ruggers.

  • Robert||

    Hell, I was a rugger, and you could still mess with me plenty. Probably.

    Come to think of it, so was David Koch, with Manhattan Rugby Football Club.

  • ||

    Yep

    The "problem" of hijacked aircraft solved itself in about an hour.

    That, of course, didn't stop the government from pouring billions upon billions of dollars into solving a solved problem.

  • Brendan||

    It looks like if these two guys had had a car and some cash ready, it would have been many, many days (or maybe weeks) before finding them.

    So many people who get busted by the cops for victimless crimes do so because they are so stupid as to open the door and let the cops in, or admit that they have something.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    That's so nice of the Bostonians, to elect that poor stroke victim Mayor.

  • Mike M.||

    No kidding. I don't know how anyone could listen to that guy for more than about thirty seconds without breaking out into laughter.

  • Sevo||

    OT:
    "Cyberbullying on the rise"
    "Among teens reports have shot up in frequency in recent years, from affecting just 6 percent of kids in 2000 to 85 percent today."
    http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/20...../#11486-10

    'I got one word for you, Ben: Victimhood'

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Prank calls were virtually zero prior to 1876.

  • Wind Rider||

    Wait - what? People can be mean on the innergoogle? Oh my

  • lap83||

    God those stats are such bs. This is what it really means. 6% of kids were socializing on the net in 2000 enough to experience "bullying". Now over 80% are. The main difference is back then it was the uncool loner kids on chatrooms that no one in society gave a shit about. Now its the popular cool kids whose helicopter parents are outraged that someone would dare not shower their pumpkin with anything but praise

  • lap83||

    Actually, the onion should do an article, "local mom outraged that her popular varsity football plsyer son is being cyberbullied with rude facebook updates"

  • lap83||

    *player

  • Tony||

    I can't wait till Reason reports on the Reinhart and Rogoff fiasco.

  • Mike M.||

    Just link to your New York Times blog and everyone can read about it for themselves there.

  • Sevo||

    "If you use all of the (right) numbers, it turns out growth does slow when debt is high, but not nearly as much as Reinhart and Rogoff -- hereafter, R-R -- claimed.
    [...]
    To be fair, R-R do say that they only found that higher debt and lower growth are "associated" and that there's no "bright red line" (even if policymakers interpret it that way) at 90 percent. But they also make it quite clear that they think their correlation is more than just a correlation. They think higher debt causes lower growth, and, after a little throat-clearing, they're not too shy about saying so."
    From that font of Austrian econ, the Atlantic:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/bus.....ke/275088/
    What's your point, shithead?

  • Tony||

    How much more damage does the world have to suffer before we stop basing economic policies on their now-very-flawed assumptions about debt?

  • db||

    How much longer do you have to go without a million dollar yacht because you base your borrowing decisions on now-very-flawed assumptions about debt?

  • Wind Rider||

    Until there's an Earth shattering kaboom. There's always supposed to be an Earth shattering kaboom!

  • Sevo||

    Tony| 4.21.13 @ 11:33AM |#
    "How much more damage does the world have to suffer before we stop basing economic policies on their now-very-flawed assumptions about debt?"

    How long until you learn to post without lying, shithead?

  • Fluffy||

    News flash, you fucking retard:

    Not one policy in the EU was based in whole or in part on Rogoff's work.

    Not one.

    You think Greece undertook "austerity" because they read a fucking academic paper?

    Greece undertook austerity for one reason and one reason only: the private sector wouldn't buy their bonds any more, and the IMF and the ECB don't give ANYFUCKINGBODY money unless they make at least a marginal attempt to get their shit together.

    That's it.

    Nobody anywhere in the Greek government gave one rat's ass about any economist's academic work. They stopped spending because nobody would buy their debt any more. That's it.

    If the PIIGS could get people to buy their debt, they'd abandon austerity this afternoon.

    Rogoff is important as a post-hoc explanation for WHY the market abandoned the PIIGS debt, but that's it.

  • Sevo||

    Hey, Fluffy, knock off that reality shit, would'ja? It really ruins shithead narrative!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    They think higher debt causes lower growth

    It's almost as if, with no effective feedback mechanism, that money is directed in inefficient ways.

    Naaah, that couldn't be happening. Not with Top Men running the portfoliio.

  • Tony||

    Why do we even need fundamentally erroneous number crunching when we have your intuition?

  • Wind Rider||

    Good question. So, based on that, you could qualify to be a TOP MAN, Tony.

  • Underzog||

    Golly gee.... We have this big story about these Islamic terrorists being caught and "Reason" magazine says practically nothing about it.

    These Islamic terrorists attack Israel and the west with the frequency of pinballs coming out of some perpetual motion pinball machine and you guys excuse it by saying it's just a tiny minority or nonsense about Islam having nothing to do with it (hint, it does).

    "There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

    "Pres. Obama will fight Islamic terrorism or his middle name isn't Hussein."

    Don Feder

  • Mike M.||

    Yes, Reason will never talk honestly about radical Islam. Their liberal media friends have declared the subject to be strictly off-limits, and they don't want to make their liberal media friends angry.

    They also rather embarrissingly allowed themselves to be duped into believing that the "Arab Spring" was fundamentally no different than the American Revolution. Therefore, we're all going to have to continue to maintain this polite fiction that radical Islam poses no more of a threat to people than radical Christianity, radical Judaism, or radical Scientology.

  • Calidissident||

    You realize you're supporting a troll?

  • Mike M.||

    Maybe, but it doesn't change the fact that his basic point is correct. These guys were radical Islamists, and like the mainstream media, Reason is in denial about these people.

  • Calidissident||

    Where has Reason said these guys weren't radical Islamists?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    How much more damage does the world have to suffer

    Collectivist concern troll is concerned.

  • Tony||

    We're all collectivists, but that's another issue. The issue is whether we're going to implement policies most economists actually agree with result in economic restoration, or if we and Europe are going to continue to rely on this one erroneous report to justify our quasi-religious political-economic agenda guaranteeing further stagnation.

  • Sevo||

    Tony| 4.21.13 @ 11:41AM |#
    "We're all collectivists, but that's another issue..."

    Surprise! Shithead lies again!

  • Wind Rider||

    Just like "most scientists" agree that catastrophic global warming will result unless we (fill in the blank).

    Got it. Fuck off, Tony. Or if you're going to masturbate in public in sympathy with an academic slap fight, at least use a sock or something.

  • Tony||

    I am under no illusion that any of you will reform your economic policy prescriptions in light of the debunking of austerity policy any more than you are going to buy into well-established scientific facts.

    You don't do empirical knowledge. I get it. You are invested in an ideology, and for any real-world circumstance that doesn't fit it, there's a whole Internet of conspiracy theories or bullshit talking points for you to deploy in defense of it.

    Meanwhile the world is suffering from austerity policies that don't work and the world is on a path to devastation due to unchecked environmental harm. I'm so happy for you that you don't have to worry about any of that because your ideology allows you to dismiss anything you don't like. How nice it must be for you.

  • Sevo||

    Tony| 4.21.13 @ 11:50AM |#
    "I am under no illusion that any of you will reform your economic policy prescriptions in light of the debunking of austerity policy..."

    Since that didn't happen, shithead, you can be sure opinions aren't going to change.

  • Fluffy||

    The US and Japan have pursued unrelenting expansionist Keynesian fiscal policy and monetary policy, retard.

    Where's the boom? Where's the utopia?

    There are only a couple of economies that have pursued true austerity, which I define as "let all insolvent firms, including banks, collapse without intervention, and cut government spending to a level your economy can support" - Iceland, Estonia.

    Everybody else is trying to keep their zombie firms alive and is trying to hold asset values up. Even in Greece and Cyprus, they refuse to just stand back and let the crash happen. If they don't like the results, fuck 'em.

  • cw||

    And, AFAIK, Iceland and Estonia are two countries faring marginally better in sunken Europe.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Fluffy,

    Where's the boom? Where's the utopia?


    Oh, it will come now that the Bank of Japan (and Bernanke here) are switching from putting future production in hock to just stealing people's savings at a 2% rate per year of "desirable inflation."

    You'll see! It will come! Just around the corner! I see Tony already salivating in anticipation!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I am under no illusion that any of you will reform your economic policy prescriptions in light of the debunking of austerity policy any more than you are going to buy into well-established scientific facts.

    You don't do empirical knowledge. I get it. You are invested in an ideology, and for any real-world circumstance that doesn't fit it, there's a whole Internet of conspiracy theories or bullshit talking points for you to deploy in defense of it.

    Meanwhile the world is suffering from austerity policies that don't work and the world is on a path to devastation due to unchecked environmental harm. I'm so happy for you that you don't have to worry about any of that because your ideology allows you to dismiss anything you don't like. How nice it must be for you.

    Lie down, Tony w/o spaces. Your head must hurt from all of that question-begging and projection. We wouldn't want you to strain yourself.

  • ||

    $

  • AuH20||

    No, we really aren't all collectivists.

    For example, some of us believe in looking at homosexuals as individuals, and don't believe in homosexual slurs, unlike you Tony, you homophobic bigot.

  • Tony||

    You're collectivist enough to appropriate someone else's ridiculous attempt at an ironic insult.

    Lindsay Graham is an old queen. That's not a slur, it's a fact. I am a young gay man, by the way, so I have some latitude with such terminology. It's just the way things are.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Why do we even need fundamentally erroneous number crunching when we have your intuition?

    Ooh, good one. And, as we all know, without Isaac Newton, apples would fall UP.

  • Wind Rider||

    Well, sounds like a good reason to build a time machine, then go back and shoot Issac. To infinity, and beyond!

  • Tony||

    So now you're Isaac Newton?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "We had an entire city locked down."

    Huh. They seem utterly unconcerned with the question of whether that was an appropriate response.

  • Wind Rider||

    Not that it's an object lesson to whackos everywhere that for a couple of hundred bucks, they can shut down a major US metropolitan area, and be afforded wall to wall media obsession. . .that will never ever occur to anyone, ever.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Meanwhile the world is suffering from austerity policies that don't work and the world is on a path to devastation due to unchecked environmental harm.

    WHEEEEEEEEEE!

  • robc||

    Estonia.

    Game. Set. Match.

    And the Estonia president even beat Krugabe in a twitter duel too.

  • Sevo||

    "And the Estonia president even beat Krugabe in a twitter duel too."

    Cyberbully!

  • Unindicted Co-conspirator||

    What's hilarious is that he actually appears to believe this -- that the world has embraced "austerity policies" rather than an unfathomably expensive experiment with Keynesian fiscal and monetary expansion.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    So now you're Isaac Newton?

    No.

    I'm William Tecumsah Sherman.

  • Sevo||

    Oh, and Beyonce shows her sympathy for those in Cuba by wearing rags:
    http://blog.sfgate.com/dailydi.....r/#11436-1

  • AuH20||

    So, I do not listen to her music. Nor Jay-Z's. I'm 24, and male, so I think I'm at least in Jay-Z's demo, though I am neither female nor gay enough to be in Beyonce's demo.

    Still... how are they this big?

    Ah, well. I think I may listen to Beethoven's 9th. Or some Mahler (BECAUSE YES, SOME OF US LIKE MAHLER!)

  • Virginian||

    I hate most popular music. I mean, I went through my hating pop music phase in high school and then last year I was like "Are you just being a moron hipster? Is it possible for you to listen with an open mind and evaluate objectively?" So I listened to the Top 40 station for a couple days.

    Yeah, it's shit.

    This is good though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otTW0JczoGQ

  • AuH20||

    The guitar work is really good, but for some reason I just can't stand most country.

    I think it's because every song seems to hit on the same basic themes. At least, the stuff that most country stations played, which has fucked the whole genre for me. The weird thing is that I love folk, so I should like country.

    Then again, Virginian, I'm sure you know what happens when you play a country song backwards.

  • Virginian||

    You turn into a Yankee?

  • AuH20||

    No. Your dog comes back to life, your car gets fixed, and you get back together with your woman.

  • Voros McCracken||

  • ||

    some beautiful heartwarming photos at this link...

    http://www.nationaljournal.com.....d-20130420

    People celebrating by waving the US flag and carrying it through the streets, cops and members of the public high-fiving each other with huge smiles all around.

    It's wonderful to see the people in one of my favorite cities be able to come together and express such joy and relief.

    As for the remaining suspect, since MA doesn't have the death penalty, here's to hoping they go after him federally, so if he is convicted, the death penalty will be an option.

  • Virginian||

    Ughhhh....a line of people groveling in front of a cop.

  • ||

    I would expect the knownothing cynics and cop haters to be disturbed by these photos, but this is how REAL America celebrates. People overwhelmingly like the cops, and it's a perfect opportunity for cops and residents to get together and celebrate. It's a happy occasion. There is no "groveling". There is a show of respect and thanks from residents of the area towards some LEO's and that's certainly a good thing. Seeing people come together and celebrating a positive outcome to a manhunt after so much death and injury - again, it's a wonderful thing despite what the cynics and anti-coppers think

  • ||

    And it only cost $333M to catch 2 guys. Well done, Dunphy. High five!

  • ||

    As usual, the anti-cop cynics will always find something to whine about. Elsewhere, in the real world, a nation, and specifically a city celebrates a satisfying end to a harrowing ordeal and cops and residents express their joy. Residents express their appreciation to law enforcement for a job well done. This is how ordinary, awesome salt of the earth Americans and Bostonians feel. It's very refreshing.

  • ||

    Fuck you apologist: Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA ripping innocent families from their homes. The cops didn't do jack shit to find the guy, it was a civilian tip after the lockdown that did it. They ordered everyone to stay inside, and raided people's houses by force if they were in the mood.

  • tarran||

    And this is why I was staying indoors. Look at those fuckers; scared, brandishing their fire-arms, showing poor discipline and tactics.

    I wasn't scared of the bomber; he was probably wounded and weak with blood and highly unlikely to have the strength to crawl up the hill to my house.

    The cops, on the other hand... well, I looked a lot more like the guy they were looking for than the poor people the LAPD shot up, mistaking them for Christopher Dorner.

    I could see those fuckers shooting me and then blaming me for looking like a 19 year-old Chechen. Kind of like the time that honorless fuck Dunphy defended those plainclothes cops who murdered than homeowner who answered the door they were pounding on.

  • Ted S.||

    Decades of propaganda will produce such an effect. I mean, it only took 23 years of anti-Thatcher propaganda to convince a lot of youth she was evil incarnate.

  • db||

    This is not cause for celebration. There are dead and wounded people and their families who will never be the same. The police got their guy--good on them, but that's their job. There is little to celebrate here.

  • ||

    Oh no db, if it wasn't for big stwong powice offisows, the tewwowists would have wiped out hawf teh cities popuwation. Pwaise teh powice!

    LOCKDOWN!

    I'm surprised they didn't LOCKDOWN the entire eastern seaboard for two such criminals.

  • cavalier973||

    *People overwhelmingly like the cops, and it's a perfect opportunity for cops and residents to get together and celebrate.*

    "The last lesson had been learnt."

  • ||

    People celebrating by waving the US flag and carrying it through the streets, cops and members of the public high-fiving each other with huge smiles all around.

    Watching it live, I a citizen passing out miniature american flags in a "random act of kindness" -- and then whip out his DSLR.

    It was hilarious.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Ooh, think of all that overtime!

    Maybe they can get in some public intoxication busts, just for the lulz.

  • ||

    When I worked as a cop in MA, we had no law against public intoxication.

    Not sure if that is still the case, but last I checked, there is no such crime as public intoxication there.

    It's a beautiful set of photos and I wish I could be there celebrating with them, and giving some high 5's to the coppers.

    By the way, speaking of one of the many ways "WA is better" (search and seizure, legalized mj, etc. etc. etc.) WA state has no law against public intoxication. It's not a crime to be intoxicated in public. We get along JUST FINE without such a law.

  • OldMexican||

    Re:Tony,

    How much more damage does the world have to suffer before we stop basing economic policies on their now-very-flawed assumptions about debt?


    You mean the economic policy that states "debt is good, nothing to see here" or the economic policy that says "debt is bad in the long run"? I just want to know where you stand.

    I am under no illusion that any of you will reform your economic policy prescriptions in light of the debunking of austerity policy


    That's because none of the free-market prescriptions come close to looking like the so-called "austerity" measures being pursued by the statist economies of Europe. Unless you can show they do - the operative word being "show", which does not mean just say.

    You don't do empirical knowledge.


    Yes, we can: Coolidge.

    So, you lied.

  • cw||

    Taxes have increased, so that's not free market, and spending has increased, so that's neither austerity nor free market. Tony the delusional.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: cw,

    It would just seem like Tony and people of his ilk take those governments at their very word when they say they're pursuing "austerity" measures. As in "Yeah, sure, why not? Why would they be lying about that"?

    But that's not the case. Tony knows full well that those measures have no semblance of austerity as people understand the concept, so he's clearly being a hypocrite; and as always, he comes here throwing rocks and expecting people to say "thank you, we needed the silica."

  • ||

    Orin Kerr (awesome blogger btw... and he's wicked smaht on police use of force stuff, just like prof. volokh) on Miranda exceptions and stuff and how it relates to this stuff. A lot of it is stuff I have already commented on, but he does it better of course :) with lots of cites too.

    http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/.....da-rights/

  • sloopyinca||

    That's all fine and good. After all, the Supreme Court upheld internment so it must be fine, right?

    And I'm not as concerned with them not Mirandizing him as I will be if they don't indict him immediately upon him being able to be indicted. We don't pick up and detain American citizens or residents without charge in this country. Even money says we do in this case though. And people like you will applaud it since it's "legal".

    Morality is more important than legality. Cops, bureaucrats and elected officials that rely on precedent as opposed to righteousness will never understand our indignation.

  • ||

    I'm not saying it's good or bad what they are doing. I am simply saying Kerr offers good analysis. One can offer analysis w/o taking sides. Really.

  • cw||

    So Tony, has the state done nothing wrong in these two property rights cases? I'd like to hear your defense of the town's and the Army Corps' actions.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    By the way, Sigmund Freud, Jr, your concern for my mental state is touching, but I'm not the one obsessively trolling a website pretending to be something I'm not and desperately seeking love and validation. Go have a long look in the mirror.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The police got their guy--good on them, but that's their job. There is little to celebrate here.

    You have to give the retard a treat when he shits in the toilet, instead of on the living room rug.

  • Xenocles||

    That rug really tied the room together.

  • ||

  • The Late P Brooks||

    "At least I'm housebroken."

  • AuH20||

    Guys, just remember this: Tony used a homophobic slur against Lindsey Graham ("an old queen") and then went with, "Guys, its totes okay, because I'm gay, so I can be a bigot!"

    So, Tony, given that femmephobia has recently become a pretty big issue in the gay community, are you going to apologize, or should we just add bigotry as another reason not to listen to you, along with your belief that killing people in the name of nature is okay?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    "Guys, its totes okay, because I'm gay, so I can be a bigot!"

    I always knew Tony was a faggot.

  • ||

    I thought part of his background story included a wife. I might be confusing him with one of the other trolls, though.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    You must be thinking of the ultra retarded T o n y.

  • ||

    Wait, Tony isn't a reskinned T o n y?

  • ||

    Yes.

  • AuH20||

    No, Tony has always been pretty open about being gay, which does make me feel sorry for gay people. After centuries of having to hide their sexuality, they finally get to come out of the closet only to find an asshole like Tony standing on the other side of the door.

  • Ted S.||

    I thought it was Tonio who was gay. I've never paid particularly close to Tony minus the spaces (or Tony with the spaces) though.

  • ||

    I thought it was Tonio who was gay.

    I'm pretty sure he is.

  • AuH20||

    Tonio is also gay, but unlike Tony, he is a good human being who doesn't advocate genocide for disagreeing with his environmental views.

    Yes, it was a bit confusing when Tonio first showed up.

  • ||

    Wait, I thought it was sarcasmic who was gay.

  • sloopyinca||

    That's harsh.

  • AuH20||

    It's gays all the way down!

  • Tony||

    Hate to break it to you but most gays are very liberal. I'm one of the nice ones.

  • Tony||

    I never said killing people who propagate dangerous ignorance with respect to scientific facts about the destruction of the environment was good. Only that it would be less radical an action than simply maintaining the status quo. I find it very hard to believe the point has gone over even your head. (That the status quo is the most radical possible alternative!)

    Also, there is some nuance in the issue of using certain terms depending on whether you're in the group or not; nevertheless "faggot" "old queen" is not. You don't even know what's a slur and what isn't. I do apologize for calling Lindsay Graham old. That's mean. Especially to a gay.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    killing people in the name of nature is okay

    Silly libertarian, huming beens exist outside of nature.

    Humanity is a pestilence.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I think Tony has pretty much always self-described as gay. It's probably the least offensive thing about him.

  • AuH20||

    Or is the most offensive thing about him? I mean, what did the gays do to deserve Tony?

    He seems like the kind of guy who tells you that you shouldn't use a condom because all that rubber waste is hurting the environment. A few weeks later, when your pee is burning, you realize it wasn't the environment he was concerned with.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I bet Tony's the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around.

  • Mike M.||

    Again, Tony isn't gay, and he isn't in Oklahoma. That's a phony sockpuppet persona he created for this site.

  • OldMexican||

    Win or lose, Dean will never get back his foreclosed house or an estimated $50,000 he invested.


    And that is the normal result from this tragedy: The government uses any excuse to infringe on your rights and it is the individual person who loses everything in the process - win or lose - whereas the government risks and loses nothing.

  • Virginian||

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/ge.....-cover-up/

    Isn't this illegal under the written anti-discrimination laws? I mean...I know they're never applied to white men, but in theory shouldn't they be?

  • A Serious Man||

    Depends. It this is true it might be so blatant that not even the state can ignore it. But then again she was simply fighting the good fight for feminism, multiculturalism, and social justice so I'm sure she'll have legions of supporters in the media if this breaks.

  • Virginian||

    Looks like they're busy sweeping it under the rug. So it won't break. In a week or so some reporter will call Georgetown, and all the evidence will be gone by then, and they will report it was some conspiracy theory from the rightwing fever swamp.

  • A Serious Man||

    Probably. I mean Drudge, DC, and Beck might run with it but we all know those guys are crazy unlike the Very Serious People at CNN and MSNBC.

  • Virginian||

    Notice how they shipped her off to Madagascar? It's like when they catch a priest molesting kids, they ship him somewhere else before the investigation begins.

  • Xenocles||

    What are you, some sort of advocate for men's rights? /derp

  • AuH20||

    If true, she just handed white males rejected from Georgetown a class-action lawsuit on a platter.

    I mean, it will probably have to go to the Supremes for them to be even allowed to proceed, but still...

  • Brandon S.||

    A Voice for Men, that collectivist site?

  • sloopyinca||

    A private school's admissions policies are none of my business, but if they get a dime of federal money (and I'm sure they do), then this needs to be investigated.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Anybody else think it's strange that she threw away the Arab guy's app because he was anti-Israel?

    This chick is weird.

  • Virginian||

    Her blog was called The Feminist Conservative. So...blind hatred of men and a blind worship of Israel.

  • AuH20||

    Jewish feminist is my guess based on the links on her blog. A shit ton of stuff about Germany, Nazis, and Israel.

  • ||

    I'd bet $100 the blog is fake, probably a troll from 4chan.

  • Conrad||

    This chick just has to be parody. She says in her "about" page that


    I believe that the Jewish people have the right to secure the existence of their nation and a future for their
    children…..Ethnonationalism should always be avoided."

    I thought about that and it sounds suspiciously like the fourteen words "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children."

  • ||

    Most people seem to think the post was fake, and I tend to agree.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Yeah, this smells funky as all get out.

  • ||

    That blog is obviously fake. Yes, there are stupid people on the internet, but the posts are clearly purposefully worded to make anti-feminists rage. Quite the successful troll.

  • cavalier973||

    White privilege means that I'll never, NEVER have to worry about whether I'll be successful or not based on whether some other person doesn't like me because of my skin color.

  • cavalier973||

    And, she might have done these white guys a favor; if they were rejected from attending Georgetown University, then it means they dodged being indoctrinated with a wide variety of self-limiting ideologies.

  • A Serious Man||

    What the fuckity fuck?

    In what sense is there Freedom of the Press if the press can be owned? Government can be manipulated heavily by business but it cannot be 'owned' by business - that is the ONLY salvation for government. Once we open the press up for private ownership, there goes freedom of the press. And with no effective regulations, owners of the media are free to report as the "truth" some ideologically skewed version of reality that they fastened upon before the events they are 'reporting' have even happened. In what sense is that news? If Fox News were described as the latest fantasy from planet Fox, several light-years distant, then at least we would know that what is being presented as "news" is in fact something that was manufacture several years ago and beamed to Earthlings who will apparently believe anything. But as long as privately-financed ideologues can own the media, the only freedom of the press that exists is freedom not to read it or the freedom to turn it off. We can only hope that the Koch brothers invest heavily in the media and lose a bunch of money - though that would be small compensation.

    Your average NYT reader thinks a truly free press would be one owned by the state: which always tells the truth and would never lie to advance its agenda.

  • Virginian||

    And he probably thinks that he's a lot smarter then you.

  • sloopyinca||

    And he probably thinks that he's a lot smarter then you.

    Joez Law?

  • Sevo||

    Cole's Law.

  • ||

    And he probably thinks that he's a lot smarter then you.

    THAN

    dammit

    /pedant

  • Virginian||

    Haha I do that a lot.

  • AuH20||

    Seriously, how the fuck do you become this ignorant?

    I mean, even the shittiest class in American history teaches you Thomas Paine, Common Sense, and that pamphlets were a big effing deal back in the Revolutionary period.

    Y'know, I know that the money will be crap, and that the field is undergoing some major revisions, but I swear to god I am getting my Ed. degree one day so that I can teach high school history, and maybe at least get kids some basic goddamn grounding in the concepts behind our system. Oh, and also teach a history class that focuses on the US and manages to get past WW2.

  • Virginian||

    Why do you need to know past that? FDR saved the country in his first two terms, and defeated the Axis in his third. Then he was reelected for a fourth, but he died thanks to some nasty rightwing plot most likely. And everything was wonderful and awesome until Bush came along.

  • AuH20||

    Seriously. The history of the last 70 to 80 years has a lot more bearing on the political conflicts kids will see in their lives than Andrew Jackson (although they probably should know that Jackson was a total dick)

  • Virginian||

    You're assuming the goal of the school system is turning out educated people. It's not. There is a reason they never manage to cover most of the 20th century.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    It was a right-wing plot to start the Cold War. Pretty sure I heard that one from an Alger Hiss apologist.

  • A Serious Man||

    I think more minds are lost in community college. I've had two Marxist political science professor that had Howard Zinn and Michael Parenti as required reading and eriously lectured that the air waves belonged to the American people and should be run democratically through state-ownership.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Once we open the press up for private ownership

    I think that train has left the barn and sailed over the horizon.
    Or is he advocating nationalization of all information sources? Because that would be cool.

    Ministry of Truth, FTW!

  • AuH20||

    Oh, come now, blogs that tell the truth, like Daily Kos, would just be hired on by the government to get the truth out to The People™, free from corporate lies!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    But as long as privately-financed ideologues can own the media, the only freedom of the press that exists is freedom not to read it or the freedom to turn it off.

    Why do I assume this person does not include Mayor Bloomberg in his Rogues' Gallery of evil propagandists?

  • A Serious Man||

    Also re the Boston Bomber: last night I went to a comedy club to see some stand-ups perform and there were jokes aplenty about the situation. My friends and I were sitting right next to the stage so we were picked on throughout, including one guy who referred to me, a white-looking guy wearing a leather jacket, as the next bomber.

    So I'm just thankful that that experience demonstrates that we aren't going to treat this shit like the 'death of irony' post-9/11.

  • AuH20||

    And this is why I love stand up comics. We are awful, awful, awful people... who to each other are actually really accepting and nice.

    I guess here's the thing I love about it: When Nelson Mandela dies, we will make jokes about it. When the Pope dies, we will make jokes about it. A fucking saint could die, and we will make jokes about it, because to not be able to laugh at it would be the ultimate admission of defeat to the shit sandwich that life often is.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    "white-looking guy wearing a leather jacket"

    The Jacket?

  • AuH20||

    Of course it is not The Jacket, you fool. If that artifact were to ever fall into the wrong hands, the result would be chaos!

  • A Serious Man||

    I once saw Nick at Reagan Airport in DC. He wasn't wearing the Jacket!

  • AuH20||

    Probably in his checked baggage. You know that The Jacket is too dangerous to travel carry-on!

  • Bam!||

    Via Drudge: Had 'Air of Power,' Was 'Intense'...

    Yup, the Boston bombers were pure alpha. Bet they went around Gibbs slapping girls too.

  • Virginian||

    haters gonna hate.

    Thinking about going official with her actually. Probably shouldn't, because she's crazy, but at least she's obedient and a fun kind of crazy.

  • AuH20||

    You realize the reason you get shit is because you say things like, "but at least she's obedient"?

    Like, seriously, dude, you realize you are referring to a human being, and not a dog, right?

  • Bam!||

    That's one of MANY reasons he gets shit.

  • ||

    Like, seriously, dude, you realize you are referring to a human being, and not a dog, right?

    It's a bitch either way, dude.

  • Virginian||

    She's definitely a human being. It's all in good fun man. Different strokes and all that.

  • AuH20||

    I'm just saying maybe put, "We'll be in a BDSM relationship and she is very obedient." Because that makes it sound less creepy.

  • Irish||

    Guys, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for this conversation.

    That's some funny shit.

  • ||

    I've never understood why an obedience kink is associated with bondage and sadism in people's minds. Why does "submission" have to mean tying people up and (pseudo)torturing them? A person doesn't need physical bonds to submit.

  • Virginian||

    If you need to tie her up, you're doing it wrong. When I've got a girl wrapped up, it doesn't take anything more then the right tone of voice. Of course, sometimes they still disobey. But that's because they like what follows.

    My sexual proclivities give me a disturbing insight into the mind of a statist. It is incredibly thrilling to have another person submit to your authority. I just wish the bastards would find a kinky partner and stop ruining other people's lives for their fun.

  • Irish||

    Be honest: You're just trolling us at this point right? Because you've gone from relatively doctrinaire PUA stuff to 'when I ring this bell, my girlfriend drools in a cup.'

  • AuH20||

    Actually, I did once know a girl whose previous BF had used classical conditioning to get her to orgasm when a certain word was said.

    AND THIS IS WHY PSYCHIATRY IS SUPER CREEPY!

  • ||

    I don't think he's trolling, I think he's a virgin telling us his fantasies. The only girl he ties up is his Realdoll.

  • Virginian||

    I was into the BDSM thing before the PUA stuff. And I'm not into the PUA stuff all that much. Stripped of all the pseudo psych bullshit, the PUA thing is basically summed up by the phrase "Don't be a pussy".

    'when I ring this bell, my girlfriend drools in a cup.'

    Dude, you really have no idea. I'm not saying all women are like this. I am not saying that at all, seriously.

    But some are. This girl happens to be one of them. She's cute, she's kind of ditzy which I think is cute, she likes geeky TV and movies and video games, and yes, she's really submissive. So yes, telling her what to do turns her on. There are guys who like that kind of thing too. Wide world out there.

  • AuH20||

    Virginian, I get your into the whole BDSM stuff, but the way for it to seem less creepy to people who aren't as deep into it (I mean, a little bit is hot for people like me, and maybe even a kinky fantasy or two, but you sound like you are pretty deep into the scene) is to emphasize the consensual nature of it. Because, even though it is consensual, to people not into it, it comes off as really creepy and bordering on abusive. In a proper BDSM relationship it is not (although I do know that outing abusers has been a bit of a problem in that community), but when you are pulling around a gal on a dog collar and gimp mask, the optics aren't great unless you are both wearing signs that say, "We are adults and we both agreed to participate in this in order to get sexual pleasure!"

  • Virginian||

    True. I usually do the proper emphasis. But I'm hammered. Like...Sterling Archer level hammered.

  • AuH20||

    Well, remember to taper off Virginian, or the collective hangover may kill you.

  • Virginian||

    heheheh

    I love that show so much.

  • ||

    Being hammered is cool. Thinking of women as collectively stupid and malleable is not. I suggest more booze, less misogyny.

  • ||

    I don't recall him saying the thought they were collectively stupid or malleable. You're jumping at shadows Epi.

  • ||

    darius, the core philosophy of PUA is that all women are stupid, malleable orifices who, if you just slap/ignore/treat shitty/etc will become your meat puppet. If you adopt and espouse the philosophy, that is what you are adopting and espousing.

  • Virginian||

    I don't think women are collectively stupid and malleable any more then men are.

  • Irish||

    Yeah, I tend to agree. When he talks about it, he makes it seem like he's just rolling around slapping women and ordering them around.

  • Virginian||

    Outside of actual bedroom shenanigans, I have slapped exactly one woman in my entire life.

  • A Serious Man||

  • ||

    So I decided to brave that derptastic FTP post.

    Apparently the claimed Chief Security Officer of "Tenable, the world's leading vulnerability management and network monitoring company", is afraid to click a link to NBC News because it might be "spam for malware".

  • ||

    "Derptastic" is right. As if it's the fault of the market that the local government chose to put schools near the plant.

    People act as if the "market" is some sort of monolithic entity in it's own right that needs to be reigned in by the noble hand of government, rather than the sum of all the individuals making their own economic decisions.

    If anyone is at fault for the placement of those buildings, it's a combination of government officials, homebuilders, and the owners of the retirement home. Not the builders or operators of the fertilizer plant that was there first.

    "Those EVUL businessmen should have foreseen that those schools would be built near their building at some later point in time!"

  • juris imprudent||

    It is sadly common for people to believe that some conscious entity is responsible for "running" everything.

    Seems to be part of the hard-wiring - there must be order.

  • Jayce||

    What I saw there was among the most incredible arguments I've ever seen, but completely exemplary of progressive thinking. Government failed to zone it, so government then intentionally put schools and a park there, therefore the lack of government intervention was the reason those government placed items were damaged, and libertarians are to blame.

    I think my brain just crashed.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Sloopy? Did you post that from your iPhone while sitting in the stands at Long Beach?

  • sloopyinca||

    Nope. We went to Phoenix to spend some time with Banjos' family and my sister and her 4 youngest kids before they move again.

  • AuH20||

    Oh, so the blog of the feminist twat that rejected dudes at Georgetown had this link.

    Ron Paul: The Most Dangerous Nazi in America. MUST READ!

    It's 177 pages, so I don't expect anyone to read it, but here is a chapter list:

    1)Ron Paul is nothing more than a Liberty Lobby Nazi
    2)Willis Carto Ghost Wrote the Ron Paul News Letter
    3)Neo-Confederate Segregationist and Racist
    4)Ron Paul's Attempted Bloodless Coup
    5)Using Iran as a Proxy to Destroy Israel
    6)Israel's Number One Enemy in Congress
    7)Supporter of Domestic Terrorism: Security Stripping America so that Attacks on Jews can take place
    8)Replacement Theology: Israel no longer plays a role in the resurrection of Christ
    9)Von Mises- Fascist Economist

    Actually, correction: It would appear to go at least 200 pages.

  • Irish||

    The writer compares Ron Paul arguing that people should legally be allowed to produce raw milk to Ron Paul wanting genocide legalized.

    Bit of a stretch.

  • ||

    Only a bit.

    /tony

  • Boisfeuras||

    Actually this piece of semi-literate shit is 320 pages! I couldn't resist skimming the "Von Mises: Fascist Economist" chapter. It contained these gems:

    Had Von Mises not been a Jew he would have been a willing collaborator with the Nazis.
    Hayek came out with these anti-New Deal ideas a year before the war ended. I believe these ideas were demoralizing to the war effort as America and the Soviet Union were allies and the implication here is that there would be no moral difference had we allied ourselves with the Nazis.
  • The Late P Brooks||

    Liberty Lobby Nazi

    Haha, I shall oppress you by not telling you what to do!

  • A Serious Man||

    And that von Mises was a total fascist, which is why he fled Austria and had his work burned by the Nazis.

  • Irish||

    Mises, Hayek and Friedman all get called fascist by people who haven't read their work because they all argued that a free market implemented by a dictator will, in the long term, be better than socialism implemented by a democracy.

    The thing is, they were right. Chile's free market economy, which has resulted in them being the most stable economy in South America, was implemented by a dictator. South Korea was a dictatorship after the Korean war. Why did South Korea become so successful while North Korea collapsed into a police state? Because South Korea became wealthy through free market initiatives and eventually transitioned to a democracy.

    This is why we read the books, people.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    But Irish, if you can't rely totally on your government-paid educators and your government-fellating media to tell you the truth, who can you depend on?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I'm guessing Suarez described Ivanovic as a 'bit gamey'

  • juris imprudent||

    I suppose next time they play Ivanovic will be twice shy.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Footage from of the 'voluntary searches' that happened in Boston last week

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    ^ some

  • Virginian||

    So I just found my favorite hip flask. It was stuck in a pair of shoes I haven't worn in a while. So today has been a good day.

  • Bam!||

    How could you possibly peacock without a hip flask? It's unheard of.

  • Xenocles||

    I don't believe peacocking is considered an essential Game tactic.

  • Irish||

    Mine's pink with feathers attached. I also bedazzled it for maximum peacockage.

  • Virginian||

    Hehe...the PUA people call it peacocking, I call it dressing with style.

    When everyone in the bar is wearing khakis and a button down, the guy with a distinctive look stands out. I go for the Western/good ol boy look. Pearl snap, jeans, boots, maybe a lip in, definitely a hip flask. Gun on the hip if I'm not drinking. They fucking melt.

  • ||

    Holy shit you are the biggest misogynist dork idiot possible. Are you serious with this shit? They fucking melt? Who does, the incredibly insecure ones? Wow, in the land of the dudes who can only get insecure girls, the peacock man is king.

  • Virginian||

    We're all insecure dude. When I'm talking to someone who can absolutely nail a musical instrument or speak a foreign language fluently, I'm insecure as hell. I can't do a lot of things. But I can do some things.

  • ||

    You can talk on an internet blog about how you can supposedly pick up women who like being "Gibbs-slapped" and who are attracted to fat dudes who treat them like shit? Wow, that's impressive. Why do I suspect that your supposed conquests don't rate very high on any sort of scale at all?

  • ||

    It was Bam! that said that "Gibbs" stuff, not Virginian. And HE was joking.

  • Bam!||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    share the milk of human kindness

  • Irish||

    Holy fuck, I didn't even know about that.

    I slapped a girl the other day for cussing at a kid, like Gibb's from CSI.

    There are so many things wrong with this sentence, that I can't effectively articulate them all.

  • Irish||

    Sorry NCIS. That makes it all better.

  • ||

    Yes actually, it does when you realize what it actually refers to. See my link below and then tell me what a horrifying, abusive practice that is.

  • Irish||

    What precisely gives one person the right to touch another human being for doing something that he finds objectionable?

    I know what a Gibbs slap is. I don't think it's some 'horrifying, abusive practice.' However, there is a difference between a mother doing that to discipline her child and a man laying his hands on another human being because she did something he didn't like, as if she's a fucking dog.

    You don't get to lay your hands on someone else, simply because they did something you don't like.

  • ||

    "as if she's a fucking dog."

    Again, you're absolutely making shit up. You have no idea what relation he has to the woman, nor how he thinks about her. Don't pull this bullshit.

    If someone's cursing around a child, I'm probably not going to smack them upside the head, but I'm not going to get all horrified about someone doing it either.

  • ||

    And if a woman did that to a man, no one would care, no one would freak out and say she was "treating him like a dog". What bullshit.

  • ||

    (slaps Irish)

    Stop being hysterical you dumb cunt!

  • Irish||

    Would you like me to text you now, or later? I'm feeling a bit aroused, you alpha male.

  • ||

    How wet are you right now?

  • ||

    Now you're just plain full of shit Irish. You don't know the first thing about me personally, so don't pretend you know me for not being horrified by a light smack upside the head.

  • ||

    Or were you talking to Epi? Carry on then.

  • Irish||

    Okay, I see that you noticed I was talking to Epi. I retract that, although the rest of my post stands.

  • Irish||

    You don't know the first thing about me personally, so don't pretend you know me for not being horrified by a light smack upside the head.

    I don't even know what you're talking about. What did I say to you? The 'I'm feeling a bit aroused' was to Epi, not you.

    I don't pretend to know you 'for not being horrified by a light smack upside the head' because I wasn't talking to you. Moreover, I'm not 'horrified' if we're going to use ridiculously hyperbolic words now.

    I just don't think one adult has the right to 'discipline' another adult in for cussing out a child.

    Calling me 'horrified' would be like looking at your little bit of butthurt and saying you're 'furious.'

  • Virginian||

    I just don't think one adult has the right to 'discipline' another adult in for cussing out a child.

    Before everyone mounts their crusading horses, I should probably supply a little context.

    I work with this girl at one of my jobs. And we're always punching, poking, pinching, kicking each other. So I didn't just slap her upside the head out of the blue. So....yeah, probably should have brought that up earlier.

  • ||

    You act like he slapped her across the face, rather than a smack upside the back of the head. My mom's done that to me before, no one ever thought it was some horrible violation of human rights then.

  • ||

    darius, I don't know about everyone else piling on, but I interpreted that not as some violent abuse of women, but more as an embarrassingly transparent attempt at displaying dominance. More awkward and pathetic than anything else, which is sort of characteristic of the whole PUA/Game sphere.

  • ||

    darius, it's not the lightness of the slap. It's the principle of violating someone's right to not be assaulted, however lightly, or even however much it might supposedly turn them on. Principles matter.

  • Irish||

    It's the principle of violating someone's right to not be assaulted, however lightly, or even however much it might supposedly turn them on. Principles matter.

    Exactly. You don't have the right to violate someone's personal space without their consent. The lightness of the slap is inconsequential.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah it's in there with eating snails and drinking absinthe on the list of things I've done exactly once.

  • ||

    The most cringe-inducing part of that whole debacle was the admission of actually watching NCIS or CSI or whatever aggressively mediocre police procedural that shit is from. I thought only old ladies liked those shows.

  • ||

    NCIS kicks ass, that's why. Don't confuse it with that CSI stuff. A "Gibbs slap", by the way, just refers to smacking someone up the side of the head. The horror, the horror.

  • Virginian||

    I am drinking through my entire fridge and binge watching Law and Order SVU right now. Fucking love Sundays.

  • ||

    Dude, it's one thing to believe the PUA shit. But Law & Order?!? I'm so disgusted now I think I have to puke. You're drunk all day, which I am totally down with, but you can't watch that shit. Redeem yourself and put on Aqua Teen Hunger Force right the fuck now.

  • ||

    Whatever one with the Holmes-like guy was good. The others varied in quality. I thought Ice-T did a good job though.

  • Virginian||

    SVU is the best Law and Order because the characters are the most interesting.

  • Virginian||

    It's another one of my guilty pleasures. Like with Justified. Raylan Givens and Elliot Stabler are both little thugs with badges, but in TV land the guys they kick the shit out of always deserve it.

  • ||

    Dude, that's exactly why I stopped watching Justified. Exactly why. It's OK, I will just rewatch all of Supernatural.

  • Virginian||

    Dude, that's exactly why I stopped watching Justified. Exactly why. It's OK, I will just rewatch all of Supernatural.

    Is that any good? I mean obviously you know now I like bad TV. But the only people who have given that positive reviews to me are girls who want the brothers to have gay sex.

    So, would appreciate another opinion.

  • ||

    Honestly, Supernatural is one of the best shows on TV. The writers are incredibly witty and specifically go out of their way to mislead you and not be cliche. I will admit that partly because of the lead actors, the show is significantly popular with gay men and teh ladies, but it's also just an excellent show. The first season is a little slow until the end of the season, and then the show just takes off. Highly, highly recommended. The brothers are essentially libertarian, they engage in copious weapon use, have zero respect for authority, avoid the police at all costs, and have a strong moral code regarding saving and not hurting humans (as opposed to supernatural creatures). It's fucking good.

  • Virginian||

    No shit? Huh. Is it on Netflix?

  • ||

    It is, in fact, on Netflix Play Instant. Seven season's worth. You would do yourself a favor watching it instead of the police procedural shit that is Law & Order.

  • Virginian||

    It is, in fact, on Netflix Play Instant. Seven season's worth. You would do yourself a favor watching it instead of the police procedural shit that is Law & Order.

    Stabler is right now about to slam a pedophile's head into the table in the interrogation room. And Ice-T is being all black. And the old white guy is blasting out a conspiracy theory.

    I wouldn't miss this for the world.

  • ||

    Or you could watch Sam and Dean gank demons, vampires, hellhounds, shapeshifters, tulpas (yes, tulpas are a thing, where do you think he got the name), skinwalkers, ghosts, the list is endless.

  • Virginian||

    I don't know....reading the Dresden Files kind of ruined me for any other urban fantasy. The skinwalker in that is scarier then anything else.

  • ||

    I'm switching my handle to Hairy Dresden whenever it seems apropos.

  • ||

    A complete and utter lack of shame and self-awareness is a rare thing, Epi. I wonder what other admissions are forthcoming.

    Tell me you're drinking a beer shitty enough to match your taste in TV, Virginian. Bud Light?

  • Virginian||

    I drank all the craft beer and just polished off the last Coors. Next up: People's Beer of Richmond.

  • ||

    So you're a hipster as well? Tell you what: horrify me by having a Rainier. Or an Olympia. They make PBR look like something not utterly horrible, just mostly horrible.

  • Virginian||

    So you're a hipster as well? Tell you what: horrify me by having a Rainier. Or an Olympia. They make PBR look like something not utterly horrible, just mostly horrible.

    I love country music, hipsters hate it. Therefore, I am not a hipster.

    PBR was the beer of the Southern working class long before the hipsters appropriated it.

    Is Rainier/Olympia the PBR of the NW?

  • ||

    What kind of country, Virginian? I myself have been known to listen to the country station on road trips. It's especially awful/awesome when you get up to Canada and the Canadian country station is playing the exact same stuff they were playing 15 years ago.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Canadian country station

    Mmmm.. yummy Canadian country.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUM8mXJre1c

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Virginian||

    I like a lot of country, but mostly the outlaw stuff. Especially Texas country. Steve Earle and Robert Earl Keen and Waylon and Willie and all that.

    Steve Earle especially, despite being a leftist douche, is a brilliant songwriter.

  • ||

    I bet there are hipsters who like Steve Earle, though, so that doesn't entirely get you out of the woods.

    Pantsfan, excellent upright bass action on that one.

  • PACW||

    The only Canadian country music I am familiar with is Corb Lund. All of his stuff is wonderful - about half serious and half drinking fun. Student Visas is the best song I've ever heard.

  • ||

    Is Rainier/Olympia the PBR of the NW?

    No, it's the Pacific NorthWest's way of outdoing PBR. If you see a hipster in Seattle drinking a PBR, you go, "eh, typical douche". If you see one drinking Rainier, you swerve your car onto the sidewalk and do your damnedest to run them over.

  • ||

    A complete and utter lack of shame and self-awareness is a rare thing, Epi. I wonder what other admissions are forthcoming.

    For real. I shared the crazy Barbie ex story, but that was for the lulz and self flagellation, not because I thought it wasn't embarrassing.

  • ||

    Linky plz, Zak? "Crazy Barbie ex" could go any number of wonderful places.

  • ||

  • ||

    Amazing stuff, thank you. I was hoping it was either a Barbie obsession or a plastic surgery thing. And having a crazy redheaded ex may as well be a badge of honor around these parts, Zakster.

    Hell, I even have a semi-crazy redheaded ex.

  • Bam!||

    I want to nominate Virginian for official Reason.com Butt Monkey status.

    It's just so much fun.

  • ||

  • AuH20||

    Oh, so you dress in the manner of a male prostitute from the Midnight Cowboy era?

  • Virginian||

    Nah because my hat is straw and I don't wear a jacket cuz its too warm here.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Excel is magic

  • Caleb Turberville||

    OT: http://timesdaily.com/stories/.....dea,205461

    Apparently, my home community can't possibly fathom an era when the benevolent federal government isn't in charge of their utilities.

  • Virginian||

    Well duh. It's been 70 years or so right? No one even knows who Wendell Willkie was anymore.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • ||

    This was inevitable. Rafa is at the end of his career, Novak right in the middle.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Makes me appreciate more how special Feder is.

  • ||

    Roger is amazing, but I predict he retires soon. The Rafa/Roger era will be, and should be, over soon. It's time for new blood. Novak got himself into that, to his credit, which is extremely impressive. I hope someone can rise to challenge him and create a new era.

  • Nazdrakke||

    I've a feeling he'll retire soon, as well. It's been cool to watch a guy who is arguably the greatest ever at his sport. I don't see any legitimate threat to Novak's dominance atm, though.

  • ||

    Agreed. Andy Murray is capable of beating him, but won't do it regularly. Roddick is retired. Mardy Fish? No. Tsonga? Probably not. Ferrer? Probably not. Berdych or Del Potro? Again, probably not. Isner was looking really, really promising and has seemed to have dried up.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    he's never fully recovered.

  • Ted S.||

    He only loses because he's injured.

    How long will he sit out if he loses at Roland Garros?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Bill Kristol Insists on Being a Tyrannical Piece of Shit

    "Well, are we at war with a global jihadist threat or not?"

    "The guy spent six months abroad just a year ago. If we don’t use enemy combatant for him, when are we going to use it?"

    First of all, Al-Qaeda is not the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany. The derqa-derqa jihadis are not about to sweep out of Istanbul and conquer the West. Calling them the "global jihadist threat" is fearmongering of the lowest-degree.

    What does Tsarnaev spending time abroad have to do with it? If you want to say that the Tsarnaev Bros. were training to be derqa-derqa jihads, have the balls to come right out and say it. And then get called on the carpet for some evidence to back up up that claim.

    "Torture/interrogate him first, then give him due process...if we feel like it." Kristol is a fucking scumbag.

  • Irish||

    God, Bill Kristol is fucking slime.

    The only reason to read The Weekly Standard is PJ O'Rourke.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Hey, Bill, why are you so impressed by the behavior of a murderous imbecile? Why do you afford such respect to this guy as if he were some kind Bond villain? Do you have some kind of sympathy for terrorists, that you would give lowlifes like this an importance beyond what they deserve?

    This is the sort of language you have to use against the Kristols of the world. Point out that *they* are the ones giving excessive respect to terrorists, *they* are the ones sitting around in urine-soaked pants, panicked by the homicidal antics of pathetic serial killers, rather than being a man and recognizing that these pathetic criminals need to be treated like...pathetic criminals, not evil masterminds.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    20 years ago called, it wants its lawsuit back.

  • Virginian||

    God I hate this kind of shit.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    I always wondered about the legal theory behind holding the maker of hot coffee liable, but not the woman who decided to try to drink it while driving, nor the maker of the sweatpants that absorbed it and held it against her skin.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    As it was explained to me by a very wise torts lawyer, the explanation behind the hot coffee business was that McDonald's heated its coffee to a temperature where it could cause third-degree burns/harm comparable to napalm.

    More importantly, the jury went for it.

  • Gray Ghost||

    Eggshell plaintiff was how I heard it described to me. The plaintiff was old, infirm, with a circulatory disorder. A burn that you or I would have gone, "FUCK!" and grabbed some ice cubes for, she ended up losing multiple layers of skin.

    Contributory negligence should have cut her off---I mean, who holds coffee in their lap, and it's the coffee's fault when you get burned?---but I am not king, and the jury and judge felt differently.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Oh, hey look: Republicans.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Three cheers for those staunch defenders of the US Constitution!

  • Howard Epstein||

    If you haven't you should check-out San Francisco's rent control and campaign to limit homeownership to about 1/3 of the residents. The people who hide behind the "progressive" label to obfuscate their true political believes and the low information people who don't know any better and blindly follow them believe profit is evil, property is theft and all rental housing should be government controlled or better yet, government owned.

  • db||

    Hey guys, just got back from my flying lesson, what did I mis----oh my.

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Evidently younger brother needed driving lessons too.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Special interests provided 40% of Obama inaugural funds

    More than $18 million raised for President Obama's second inauguration came from corporations, unions and other special-interest groups, according to newly filed disclosure reports.

    Those donations made up more than 40% of the total collected by the Presidential Inaugural Committee. In all, the committee reported net contributions of $43.2 million. That's $10 million less than organizers raised for Obama's first inauguration in 2009.

    Obama, who championed limits on political spending during his campaigns, rejected corporate donations for his first inauguration, but reversed course after he won a second term.

    Telecommunications giant AT&T was the single largest donor to the inaugural committee, contributing $4.6 million, according to a report the committee filed over the weekend with the Federal Election Commission. Software manufacturer Microsoft also gave $2 million. Both are government contractors. AT&T spent $17.4 million to lobby the federal government in 2012.

    Boeing and Chevron each donated $1 million. The biggest union donation: $500,000 from the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices, which represents plumbers, pipefitters and welders.
  • WomSom||

    The whole thing sounds real iffy to me dude.

    www.Ano-Surf.tk

  • forestgombosi39||

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