China As Punching Bag

Among those who sorely miss the Cold War, China serves as an endless source of fear and loathing.

(Page 2 of 2)

In fact, it's a favor to American consumers, who get goods at a lower price than they otherwise would. If shipping us freighters full of merchandise were a way to reduce us to submission, we'd have been taken over by Japan 20 years ago.

China's rapid growth has been a good thing, not a bad one. It has transformed a backward communist nation into a thriving, mostly capitalist one. It has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. It has brought China into the world economy and the World Trade Organization -- where, if we think it's using unfair trade practices, we can bring action to stop them.

As long as it remains an authoritarian state, China is not going to be our BFF. But it is not fated to be an enemy, unless we decide to make it one.

Steve Chapman blogs daily at newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/steve_chapman.

COPYRIGHT 2012 CREATORS.COM

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  • Sad Kermit||

    I just want cold wars I can never have
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpzPdS_gHzA

  • Sad Kermit-China gonna NUKE US||

    Fibertarians are so naive deliberately obtuse about the real world. They really think their Lord, The Invisible Hand, will bring a thousand year reign of peace, after enough people are saved and have accepted market fundamentalism as their personal savior.

    China Hiding 3,000 Underground Nuclear Warheads
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD1KYN1W0Lw

    Georgetown students shed light on China’s tunnel system for nuclear weapons
    Washington Post
    www.washingtonpost.com/world/n.....story.html

    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the deadheads shall be roasted incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

  • Dr. Fu Manchu||

  • Feng Shui||

    But of course; 3000 thermonuclear warheads are just decorative.

  • Dr. Fu Manchu||

    I have always found the Eastern sensibility to be more tasteful than the crude Western concept of "decoration". Think of it as the lightness, yet delicate complexity of tea versus the heaviness of coffee, a drink whose preparation you have perverted from the original Arabic.

  • Gran Torino||

    "I used to stack gooks like you 5 feet high in Korea, use ya for sandbags." ~Walt Kowalski

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

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  • Dekedin||

    What is it with US politicians wanting their cake and eating it too? They bash China while demanding their cheap goods, we have an embargo with Cuba yet use their land to hold terrorist suspects, and we complain about Iran getting nukes yet have no qualms about invading nations for much less than that, so Iran clearly has a motive to try and defend itself. Our foreign policy is hypocrisy personified, we expect all other countries, even European ones, to bow down and follow our every whim, yet when someone does something not in our best interests, we through a hissy fit.

    What i wouldn't give to see through the mind of a politician. There seems to be zero logic in anything we do anymore.

  • Mind of a POLI||

    • POLIs (city-State)
    • POLItics (city-Statism)
    • POLIce (city-Statist privation property value enforcers)
    • POLI (you)

    When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe. ~Thomas Jefferson

  • Mooooooooo||

    ChiCom will fall soon enough.

    No need for any one to worry.

  • 3000 nukes||

    Go back to sleep.

    China Hiding 3,000 Underground Nuclear Warheads
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD1KYN1W0Lw

    Georgetown students shed light on China’s tunnel system for nuclear weapons
    Washington Post
    www.washingtonpost.com/world/n.....story.html

  • Almanian||

    The irony - it burns

  • It burns?||

    It's probably herpes.

  • wef||

    Romney's cynical use of the Chinese bogeyman is the most obvious evidence that he is unfit to be president.

  • Feng shui||

    3000 thermonuclear warheads are just decorative.

  • Dr. Fu Manchu||

  • Who said they were defensive?||

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    Nixon White House Considered Nuclear Options Against North Vietnam, Declassified Documents Reveal
    Nuclear Weapons, the Vietnam War, and the "Nuclear Taboo"
    National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 195
    www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB195/index.htm

    'U.S. Considered Using Nuclear Weapons During Korean War'
    http://english.chosun.com/site.....01044.html

  • Dr. Fu Manchu||

  • Technosalvationist Singularity||

    Technological singularity refers to the hypothetical future emergence of greater-than-human power through technological means, very probably resulting in explosive superpower.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....ingularity

    sumthin' like that or another LULZ

  • ||

    greater-than-human power through technological means,

    You do realize that the invention of the wheel falls under this category, don't you?

    Imbecile!

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    First of all, you know better than to talk to it.

    Second of all, it's like 6 AM over there. Go back to bed.

    When's the wedding?

  • ||

    March 31 in beautiful downtown Las Vegas (at the Riviera).

  • Wheels and Thermonuclear Bombs||

    ...falls under this category...

    Yep, just like rape and making love falls under the category of intercourse.

    I sit at your feet, sloopy, soaking up wisdom. What else do you have to teach me?

  • ||

    So, by your logic, all consensual intercourse and rape are equal, as is the invention of the wheel and thermonuclear war?

    I mean, seriously? Just because the object of your slashfic fantasy, American Indians, never used the wheel for transportation, doesn't mean that it's not a net gain for humanity even in your fucked-in-the-head futuristic fantasy of human starvation.

  • Useless Nut||

    by your logic, all consensual intercourse and rape are equal

    No, that's your logic of broad brush categorizing, sloopy.

    Keep the straw men coming though. You've apparently got a whole barnful.

  • ||

    You made the statement, dipshit. All I said was the invention of the wheel falls under the category of "greater than human power through technological means."

    Go. To. Hell.

  • Feministing||

    All "consensual" intercourse IS rape.

  • "You made the statement"||

    Weird how bullshit strawmen become real to Fundamentalist Fibertarians.

  • wef||

    So Romney is really talking about in coded language thermonuclear warheads when he whines on, "They've also manipulated their currency so that their products are artificially low-priced. You can't allow that to go on year after year after year."

    Or is it easier to think that he is a cynical, demagoguing fearmonger whipping up anti-foreign anxieties among the rubes?

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    You're talking to a troll. I would advise against it.

  • wef||

    Gives me an opportunity to exercise my anti-repube venom and contempt for the romney thug.

    The republican party must be destroyed.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    You're stopping half-way to the goal, wef: The Democrats must be destroyed, as well.

  • Fibertards = already destroyed||

    As if there was anything to destroy, especially after WI's romp through here, counting coup.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    China dropped its reserve requirements for banks yet again. Not a good sign.

  • DJF||

    What could go wrong with banks leveraging themselves higher to support bubble Real Estate prices?

  • Thermonuclear Resource Wars||

    That's what could go wrong.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Haven't a clue, myself. All of the USA financial sector tells me it's perfectly fine and there's nothing to worry about.

  • DJF||

    """"We don't view China as a direct threat," Vice Adm. Scott Van Buskirk, commander of the U.S. Seventh Fleet, said last year. "To look at China through the lens of an adversary would be counterproductive.""''

    Since China is not a threat then why isn't Adm Buskirk recommending that the US Seventh Fleet be returned to its West Coast US bases? Why have the Seventh Fleet patrolling the West Pacific if there is no threat? Why have a US nuclear carrier and support ships homeported in Japan?

    I agree that China is no real threat to the US, so lets get our troops, planes and ships back to the US where they will cost much less to maintain and support then at the end of a long supply chain out to the Western Pacific

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Since China is not a threat then why isn't Adm Buskirk recommending that the US Seventh Fleet be returned to its West Coast US bases? Why have the Seventh Fleet patrolling the West Pacific if there is no threat? Why have a US nuclear carrier and support ships homeported in Japan?

    Because, since the end of World War 2, the Pacific has been our thalassocractic empire.
    Guam, Saipan, Federated States of Micronesia, American Samoa, et cetera.

  • DJF||

    And all those places cost the US far more then they have ever been a benefit. The US should declare them to be independent and save the US lots of money.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You have no argument from me.

  • k2000k||

    I have to disagree here. I'd say most of our military deployment cost is the result fo being in a few nations, such as Germany, Iraq, Afgahnistan, Japan, Britain, and Korea. I am willing to wager the pacific islands are drops in the bucket. I do think it is in our best interest to maintain some forward bases in the pacific. What I object too is stationing troops where it really doesn't benefit us, Germany, where the nation can defend itself, Korea, and where military action is undertaken and it doesn't really benefit us, Iraq and Afgahnistan.

  • Sevo||

    "What I object too is stationing troops where it really doesn't benefit us, Germany, where the nation can defend itself, Korea, and where military action is undertaken and it doesn't really benefit us, Iraq and Afgahnistan."

    Why maintain Pacific bases when there's the world's 3rd largest economy right there?
    Japan can learn to look after itself; I'm tired of paying to do so.

  • anon||

    Since China is not a threat then why isn't Adm Buskirk recommending that the US Seventh Fleet be returned to its West Coast US bases?

    There's this country called North Korea. Its leader just croaked.

  • DJF||

    So we are afraid of the Great North Korean Navy? And since South Korea has twice the population and much more then ten times the wealth of North Korea why is the US involved. It is not 1950 anymore with South Korea being poor and weak. Its the 21 century and its South Korea responsibility to take care of itself. Especially since South Korea spends less then half what the US spends for ‘defense” in relationship to GDP

    The US supplying “free” defense for South Korea sounds like International Socialism to me. Let the South Korean’s or Japan or anyone else who is threatened by North Korea take care of this. The US is deeply in debt and does not have the money to support military International Socialism

  • anon||

    I'm just sayin. North Korea seems a far more viable "threat" than China; mostly because we owe China a shittonne of money and they would be retarded to attack us anyways.

  • 3000 Nukes||

    They're building and hiding 3000 thermonuclear ICBM warheads in thousands of miles of underground bunkers for attacking...Tahiti?

    Cuz, ya know, they would be retarded to attack us anyways.

    LULZ

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Steve Chapman on China Phobia

    "China Phobia"? Is the word "Sinophobia" too elitist/Cosmotarian/Liberal Arts-y for you? Welch was not only able to use "Sinophobia" but he threw in "Sinophilia" as well.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    If you've got sinophilia or sinophobia, I recommend Sudafed.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Sudafed? Are you daft, man? That kind of talk will get us on a DEA watchlist for sure!

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Sorry, I meant to say bath salts.

  • Almanian||

    Me: You mean the FDA hasn't banned that yet?

    FDA: We'll get right on it!

    Me: Shit...

  • Ban on gamboling||

    Agriculture creates government.

    ~Richard Manning
    Against the Grain, p.73

    Richard Manning on the Psychosis of Civilization
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5iBOXcoP_8

  • Juvenile Injun||

    I took a shit on the plains once

  • Jason Godesky||

    I demand the right to shit in "your" living room!

  • Trail of Tears||

    Looks like Crapitalism already took a shit in mine.

  • Brother Grimm||

    How so? You're a fat white kid from Pittsburgh.

  • Not really.||

  • Brother Grimm||

    Just looked at your facebook page. Yeah, 'fraid so.

  • I don't have FB, sorry.||

  • Brother Grimm||

    http://vimeo.com/jefgodesky

    No one can maintain a body like this without agriculture!

  • Obsessed about Jason?||

    You Libertards are fucking WEIRD.

  • np||

    maybe Steve is more accurate on this since Sinodonts refer to more than just the nation of China, if you use the "Sino-" in the more anthropological sense

    how about Hanphobia and Hanphilia then?
    (...iamnotaracist)

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Wait until they find out about the Hui; they're Chinese and Muslim. Two bogeymen for the price of one!

  • ||

    The preferred nomenclature: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYOzUHnPJvU

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    That's disturbing

  • The Pointer-Outer||

    I didn't see any fondling or hickeys, but the video was only so long, and we don't know what happened after the cameras were turned off.

  • NotSure||

    I don't like stereotypes, but when it comes to paranoia, Americans seem to be number one. There is less fear of China in countries like Japan and India, which both have had conflicts with China in the past, sure there are some in those countries with nationalist tendencies but nothing even close to American fears.

    I guess it is something similar to the expression: "when you are a liar, you see everyone else as a liar as well", America has been warmongering so long now that they see everyone else as wanting to go on the war path like they have done.

  • War = a staple of civilization||

    War is a staple of civilization. Its mass, rationalized, chronic presence has increased as civilization has spread...

    The Origins of War
    John Zerzan
    www.scribd.com/doc/20298938/Ze.....ins-of-War

  • NotSure||

    Do you think that writing all your noble savage shit somehow absolves you from the fact that you vote for the war mongers ?

  • Fibertarians "Facts"||

    LULZ

  • Juvenile Injun||

    Ew, seriously? SO gross...

  • anon||

    I freaking love that commercial.

  • k2000k||

    In terms of popular media maybe, and even then I think you underestimate the enthocentric nature of say Japans news media, but the leaders of Japan and India have been seeking ways to protect themselves admist a rising China, either through military development and/or closer relation to the United States.

  • Almanian||

    You know who else was an endless source of fear and loathing...

  • anon||

    White Indian?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    I laughed

  • Almanian||

    I cried

  • ||

    My life was not changed.

  • ||

    I shit my pants.

  • ||

    So this is still happening, then? kthxbye

  • Almanian||

    YOU CAN RUN FROM THE GAMBOL LOCKDOWN, BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE!

    AGRI-BIDNESS EVUL KOCHPORASHUN CITY-STATE [DEPR] HURR DURR HURR!

  • Sad Kermit||

    Don't hurt yourself there
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ta7mkgrOU

  • Uvalduvalcuckoo||

    Warn us next time. I'm mid-flight and just burst into laughter, everyone's looking at me like I'm nuts, and its not just bc I'm wearing an Angry Birds beanie

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Only the weird thing is: since when was White Indian a Sinophobe? This is a weird turn.

  • Fibertarian "Facts"||

    Since when is WI a Sinophobe, just for pointing out that war is a staple of civilization, and China has 3000 nukes hidden underground?

    But I do hope you quit beating your old mother.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Rectal is a griefer; the only reason she comes here is to fuck up the place. The "arguments" are irrelevant.

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Well, I was just thinking that it was sticking with a schtick there, but now it's gone a different direction. I suppose it makes sense, though: the Chinese, generally, care less about the environment and are bigger technocrats than we are.

  • BakedPenguin||

    The "arguments" generally consist of projection, simple gain-saying of actual arguments, and cut-and-paste crap from some idiot who would be dead in under a week if he followed his preferred lifestyle. When the griefer is in manic mode, there are often dozens of greyed out comments following each other. This alone should be proof of mental instability and / or bad faith. Why regulars on this board don't get this, (or worse - do get it, but continue to interact with this person) is beyond me. So long as jackasses keep treating it like people, it's going to keep shitting all over the place.

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Hey, I am right there with you. I don't mind talking about it with other people, but the bottom line is that ignoring it works - devastatingly so. Each normal commenter response triggers twelve more manic replies.

  • Soviet Comrade Blue Moon||

    Nyet, Comrade, do NOT communicate. Besides, your typing makes Fibertarianism look bad.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Agreed.

  • Da, Tovarisch||

    Loose lips sink Fibertarian Illusions.

  • Half-Baked Penguin||

    Your fibertarian ideas are plausible only in the isolation of a true-believer echo chamber.

    That ain't happenin' now, is it? Oh now, you poor baby.

  • np||

    WI helps build your immune system

  • Fibertarians Immune to Facts||

    No shit.

  • Can't Compete?||

    3 Doors Down - Loser
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ui_Q4qBDJY

    How's that free marketplace of ideas treating you lately?

  • MNG||

    We shouldn't have anything against the Chinese people, but I think we should against China's government.

    I hated the way the Chinese VP was feted around the country recently. China is a Communist dictatorship which denies even the most basic human rights. Forced abortions, slave labor, occupying neighboring nations, cyber attacks on our companies. Would we give the key to the city to Castro or Chavez?

  • X||

    I wouldn't be surprised if some cities already have.

  • RoboCain||

    I agree, but at the same time as we can see with Iran and NK, not being friendly isn't a way to get countries to change.

  • MR||

    Why? NK is not friendly to US, and US is changing. Fast.

  • NotSure||

    First of all this endless droning on about slaves is pure rubbish, yes you can find a horror story about some workers being locked in by their boss, but then you will find similar stories almost everywhere else. China does not practice slavery, the vast majority of workers are happy to have a better lot in life than their parents did.

    As for the occupying neighbours thing, other than Tibet, I don't see Chinese troops and drones killing anyone.

    I also have nothing against Americans, just the government, however applying sanctions against America would harm the Americans not the politicians, the same applies to China. The worst thing that could happen to China would be isolation, it would open the door to new Maos.

  • happy to have a better lot||

    Another load of FIBERTARIAN SHIT.

    People with a better lot don't have to have suicide nets. Agricultural city-Statism is hell, for most. Unless you're on top of the hierarchy, Lording-it-Over others.

    Foxconn Installs Anti-Suicide Nets at Its Facilities
    http://www.dailytech.com/Foxco.....e18877.htm

    The life of an Indian is a continual holiday, compared with the poor of Europe; and, on the other hand it appears to be abject when compared to THE RICH. ~Thomas Paine

  • Teh GUMMIT is Da Debbil||

    Lulz, Church Lady
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncu02ODfxHE

    Could it be......Satan Socialism?

  • MNG||

  • Sevo||

    MNG,
    What's your point?
    How about a lift quote or something?

  • The Chinese||

    Confucius say Jason Godesky big fat white American slob who should be put on Mao Tse Tung starvation diet.

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Mao Tse Tung

    Even though it is not proper, I Wade-Giles > Pinyin all day long. Look at how much better "Tse-Tung" looks as opposed to "Zedong" (*snooze*)

  • Walt Kowalski||

    What the hell are you spooks up to?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVjMzrCMW9Q

    Aggression?

    "In short; RACIALIST SCIENCE is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors." ~Murray Rothbard

  • NotSure||

    The guy is probably busy eating something like a ham roll or a Big Mac while typing how evil agriculture is.

  • Can't compete with ideas||

    so ad homs are nice

  • NotSure||

    Er no, someone who states that agriculture is evil, then at the same time stuffs his fat face with agricultural products has no clue. It would be like the Pope saying he is atheist, but that people should still follow his ideas and not attack him personally.

    You are really are a world class clown, its not a "ad hom" its a fact.

  • Fibertarians=Autistic Retards||

    Its not a "ad hom" its a fact.

    Libertarians are the ONLY group that scored higher on systemizing than on empathizing—and they scored a lot higher. The authors go on to suggest that systemizing is “characteristic of the male brain, with very extreme scores indicating AUTISM.”

    The Science of Libertarian Morality
    http://reason.com/archives/201.....ibertarian

  • NotSure||

    Run out of ideas I see. Hurl all the supposed insults you want, this is not insulting it is laughable.

    You on the other hand really are a hypocritical fat fuck, who is simultaneously stuffing his big mouth with junk food and typing how evil it all is. The fact that you fail to see the glaring contradiction in your world view tells me that you are the one suffering from autism.

  • ROADZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ||

    Did you drive on a publicly-built, tax-funded road in the last year?

    You on the other hand really are a hypocritical fat fuck, who is simultaneously hauling his fat ass on government roads and typing how evil it all is.

  • NotSure||

    Hey clown more correct would be if I said if roads are evil and then decide to use roads.

    Last time I checked governments don't force anyone eat big macs, there are in fact many nut cases who live off the land, why don't you ?

    When it comes to roads and all the other things you want to use as examples. I first of all have paid for them, too much in fact, from taxation (I doubt you pay tax on the other hand). Secondly last time I checked, it was government that took any choice away in the first place.

    Here is a tip for you, you really are a fat fucker, I am not, trying to make insults that have zero truth to them are not very insulting.

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Again, these responses are feeding it, not discouraging it. Don't contribute to its need for attention.

  • Soviet Comrade Blue Moon||

    Policing thoughts. Da, Comrade, do NOT communicate. Your typing makes Fibertarianism look bad.

  • NotSure||

    No fat fuck, in the Soviet Union people were forced not to talk. He is suggesting that people do not talk to you.

    If you did not have autism you might actually see the big difference between the two.

  • Don't Talk Then...but you do!||

    Because WI debunks all your Fibertarian Bullshit and it throws you into a rage.

  • NotSure||

    I still don't see what you have debunked here exactly ? Libertarianism is not about agriculture, it is about the choice of practicing agriculture or not. You believe in offering no such choice and then stuff your fat face with agriculture.

    I suspect you don't attack social democrats and all the other people you support when they practice agriculture. You are simply a pathetic little soul who thinks that posting links from professors (who also live off agriculture) about the virtues of hunting somehow proves that libertarians are evil.

  • Agriculture = Aggression||

    But I suppose you want the choice of raping, eh?

    Plowshares and Swords are one in the same tool: Domination of earth and her children.

  • NotSure||

    Carry on clown, comparing rape to planting crops, I am sure that there must be some lunatics out there that will agree with you.

  • Ancient Greeks: AG = Rape||

    You need to broaden your education. Even the ancient Greeks recognized that agriculture is a rape of mother earth with their mythology of the rape of Demeter (and later her daughter Persephone,) the goddess of grain crops and agriculture.

  • Andrea Dworkin||

    I'm not sure I'm comfortable with line of argument....but that Jason Godesky he sure is sexy!

    +....we can share a wardrobe!

  • Maxxx||

    The authors go on to suggest that systemizing is “characteristic of the male brain...

    In other words,

    Your a pussy, proud of it, and mad that everyone else isn't too.

  • Autistic to the Maxxx||

    Not all males are autistic. Or Fibertarian. Oops.

  • The Pointer-Outer||

    Obviously, Godesky has never met anyone who actually IS autistic.

  • Some people say "obviously."||

    The autism is settled.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Prove it, cunt.

    While you're at it, show your credentials giving you the authority to make such a diagnosis.

  • moop||

    written by someone who is absolutely clueless about china. i've lived here for years and am fluent in mandarin, and i can tell you that the author is miles off. china is aggressive in the post-mao era. they continuously harass ships in philippine, japanese, and vietnamese waters. they claim the whole fucking south china sea. the chinese are not peaceful. they have only been peaceful in the past because they were too weak and poor. they have broken or left unfulfilled many promises and conditions pending their admission to the wto and during their membership of the wto. they actively hack networks of corporate and government entities, costing US businesses an estimated $400 billion per year. we shouldnt be going to war with china, but this article doesnt even represent reality. the truth is many chinese are looking forward to the day when they can get revenge on japan and the foreign powers who wronged them in the past. nationalism is growing here every day, and the stronger china gets, the more people here expect china to do something, especially militarily. in china, might makes right. many chinese here actually admire the US military because "they can do whatever they want". they admire this, not detest it like so many of us here do. this article is way too forgiving

  • the author is miles off||

    Of course he's off, he's Fibertarian. He's trying to maintain the illusion that his Lord GOD The Invisible Hand is all powerful.

  • moop||

    i am libertarian. i just think the author wrote an article on a subject he is clearly clueless about. you on the other hand seems to be a dirty-dick troll

  • NotSure||

    I don't think the author is trying to make China into some angel, but that does not then imply that China is a demon who is only out to dominate the world.

    You will find similar old articles about trade with the USSR, many libertarians argued then that not trading with the USSR would be worse than trading with them.

  • moop||

    he's trying to overcompensate for the negative news and talk about china. one can still make the case for trade (and i believe he should) but without making stupid comments like "The post-Mao government has shown no interest in grabbing territory from neighbors" when it clearly has and shows all signs that it will continue to do so

  • NotSure||

    Which territory ? saber rattling about is hardly grabbing territory. I think it was Deng who said that China will not seek confrontation with the West, so far his ideas seem adhered to.

  • ^^ ChiCom Useful Idiot ^^||

  • k2000k||

    Well we need to keep this in perspective. If the United States, a liberal democracy, has engaged in territory grabbing in the past then there is no reason why we would assume China, a totalitarian state, would be any different. Moop is right though, China has been very aggresive in asserting its claim on the entire south china sea. Some of their actions would be tantamount to if we sailed into the Mexican EEZ and started harrassing their fishermen and oceanic exploratory vessels. Just because a nation has been benign in the past does not mean it will be benign in the future. I do think the whole fear about the rising dragon is overplayed,frankly I expect their economic collapse to be worse than ours, but at the same time I have seen what I would consider very naive outlooks about China. Nations can and will do terrible things, the US included, if the nation feels that

    a) it is in their best interest
    b) that they can avoid the consequences of said action, or that said actions consequences do not out weigh the suppossed benefits.

    If China thought that it could invade Tawain and occupy it without suffering sever repercussion or that the benefit of occupying that island was worth whatever repercussions that would ensue it would.

  • ||

    If China [insert nation-state here] thought that it could invade Tawain and occupy it [insert action here] without suffering sever repercussion or that the benefit of occupying that island [insert action here] was worth whatever repercussions that would ensue it would.

  • Dirty Dick Fibertarian||

    Only a Dirty Dick Troll like moop would question the omnipotence of The Invisible Hand. Heresy!

  • moop||

    this system keeps marking my website as spam eventhough it is my google+ url. anyways i dont want to be an anonypussy
    plus.google.com/117410240298127320582

  • Dirty Dick Spammer||

  • FREE TIBET!||

    "The post-Mao government has shown no interest in grabbing territory from neighbors"

    LULZ!

  • NotSure||

    The key words are: "post-Mao". Learn your history.

  • Once you've taken it||

    Occupation is ok! The past is past, right?

    Weird how Communist China's trail of tears and Capitalist America's trail of tears are both the same, and both ok with agricultural city-Statist Fibertards.

    "[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land ... Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." ~Ayn Rand, US Military Academy at West Point, March 6, 1974

    I'm not responsible for what happened in the past!

    LULZ

  • Direwolf||

    Things I learned from reading this thread: Trolls are fed here even if they argue that agriculture is evil. What is this I don't even

  • The Worst Mistake in History||

    You wanna argue agriculture is good? You'll be like Bernanke arguing deficit spending is good, because it is, for a little while. But after this the judgment.

    The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race
    by Jared Diamond
    UCLA School of Medicine
    Originally published in Discover Magazine, May 1, 1987. Pages 64-66.
    www.mnforsustain.org/food_ag_w.....mond_j.htm

  • Parents of Jason Godesky||

    No, the worst mistake ever was when we screwed and had you as a child.

  • Jared Diamond wrote that.||

    Fibertarians are dumb as a sack of hammers.

  • Colonel_Angus||

    China aint shit. They wouldn't be anywhere without America and all the foreign companies that have shit manufactured there.

  • Colonel Anus||

    'Murka aint shit. They wouldn't be anywhere without China and all the technology and shit manufactured there.

  • ||

    I make no pretence of being a China expert, but I would suggest that any discussion of China should keep the following in mind;

    1) Any and all statistics coming out of China are highly suspect. They have no reason to tell the truth about themselves to anybody, especially if it could get back to the Chinese rank and file. I am , but apparently nobody learned anything from the obvious differences between what Soviet Russia claimed and what post-Soviet Russia revealed.

    2) The Chinese State treats their people like livestock. The Chinese State has treated the Chinese people like livestock for thousands of years. This has little to do with Socialism, Communism, or Mao, and everything to do with a set of basic social assumptions. Which should indicate how seriously to take any protestation of devotion to Civil Rights made by the Chinese government.

    3) The Chinese State considers it moral and ethical behaviour to give a woman a late-term abortion whether she wants one or not (see Point 2, above). Such a government is an abomination. It may be an absolute real-world necessity for us to deal with that government, but that doesn't change that that government is an abomination. Anybody who takes the position that the Chinese Government is not a life-eating monstrosity is a goddamned fool at best.

  • Chinese State=Agri-City-State||

    Perhaps this question is best considered against the immense backdrop of the Great Wall of China. According to long-held theory, the Chinese nation conscripted so much forced and slave labor into building the Great Wall in order to protect itself from barbarian hordes—nomads--to the west. To be sure, the Mongols were a problem throughout Chinese history. But some scholars have advanced a different theory: that the wall was built not so much to keep the Mongols out as to keep Chinese peasants in. Certainly anyone who got a good look at equestrian life on the steppe would prefer it to stoop labor in the rice paddies of that intensely hierarchical society.

    ~Richard Manning
    Against the Grain p.44

  • ||

    I prefer to think that the Great Wall Of China is proof that, whatever the era, a centralised State will tend to undertake massive infrastructure projects that cost too goddamned much, and are of questionable utility.

  • Sevo||

    Uh, you probably want to check the posts of the person to whom you responded.
    I'm sure there are terms to properly describe that person, but bat-shit crazy doesn't get close.

  • Sevo||

    BTW, a sampling of the reviews of Manning's opus:
    "The basic thesis, very gently stated by the author, is that the advent of agriculture has caused the loss of what it means to be human by replacing our ancestral senses of the many flavors and varieties of nature with the dull security of industrial monoculture based overwhelmingly on just three crops."
    As opposed, I guess, to starving on the exciting insecurity of many...
    ------------
    "The land, Nature's precious soils, are scared by the plow and insulted by rubbing agri-chemicals into the wounds while precious top soils pollute the waters, the source of life."
    Yep, the mud-momma as the god of a new religion.
    -----------
    "For those of us like myself who are poorly informed on these issues this book is certainly an eye-opener."
    'Nuff said.
    All from http://www.amazon.com/Against-.....829&sr=1-1
    Suffice to say Rousseau's 'noble savage' bull-bleep is right up Manning's alley.

  • Sevo||

    And to make it clear:
    Agriculture = Aggression|2.20.12 @ 10:44AM|#
    But I suppose you want the choice of raping, eh?
    Plowshares and Swords are one in the same tool: Domination of earth and her children."

    This from someone stupid enough to presume an inanimate lump could be subject to "rape".

  • Sevo||

    And let's kick Manning in the nuts, just 'cause he deserves it. Check here, wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Manning
    Notice he's had articles published by such notable 'neutral' rags as the NYT. And, (wow!) the Bloomsbury Review!
    Further, he's 'award-winning' of such awards that even wiki can't find them:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.....Fellowship
    Boy, that guy is going to change the way the entire world looks at food production! Or maybe just confirm the way Godesky's two or three accolades see it...
    "Pathetic" is too kind.

  • Sevo||

    "Such a government is an abomination. It may be an absolute real-world necessity for us to deal with that government, but that doesn't change that that government is an abomination."

    Agreed, but as the article mentions, that's no cause for war.

  • ||

    If Germany's treatment of Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and other "subhumans:" was cause for war, there is cause for war.

    If Germany's treatment of those minorities was NOT cause for war,. then I want to see some serious dial-down of rhetoric in certain quarters.

    (Yes, I know, we went to war with Germany because a certain paperhanger had the monumental bad judgement to declare war on US.)

  • Sevo||

    "then I want to see some serious dial-down of rhetoric in certain quarters."

    This.
    The US is not and cannot be the guarantor of proper treatment for the world's population.
    We're not doing such a hot job in the US right now.

  • ||

    Love the article... I hear there is a former ESPN editor that might be able to come up with a headline/title that could capture more media attention though.

  • White Redskin||

    Dear Evil White Men,

    Capitalism gets me all angry inside and such. I imagine what it must be like to be native american sometimez. Sitting on my parents desktop computer, reading richard manning literature, it really erks me that the white ppls of the past did harmful things to the native populations on purpose. As a 30 year old white male living with my parents in suburban Pittsburgh, I figured out every answer to issues regarding native american - modern american relations. I get angry when I come to the realization that I grew up in under the totalitarian regime otherwise known as Capitalism. Its all good tho, Richard Manning keeps me focused on my goal of escaping the prison of my parents home and starting a revolution of sorts out west with the remain natives. Y'all keep living the capitalist dream in hell!

    Sincerely,

    The itch you just can't scratch.

  • Obsessed Libertard||

    Dear Evil White Men,

    Government gets me all angry inside and such. I imagine what it must be like to be heinlein syfy sometimez. Sitting on my parents desktop computer, reading atlas shrieked literature, it really erks me that the ppls of the past did harmful things to the free populations on purpose. As a 30 year old white male living with my parents in suburban Pittsburgh, I figured out every answer to issues regarding the unknown capitalist ideal - modern american relations. I get angry when I come to the realization that I grew up in under the totalitarian regime otherwise known as Gummit. Its all good tho, Murray Rothbard keeps me focused on my goal of escaping the prison of my parents home and starting a revolution of sorts out on the ocean with the remain remnant. Y'all keep living the socialist dream in hell!

    Sincerely,

    The itch you just can't scratch.

  • Originality||

    Something you don't possess.

  • ||

    China is sort of a threat. To dismiss it because it's not the next coming of the third reich is a bit naive. Only in America (it seems) are militant rhetoric against China seen as some prelude to war. There's nothing Mitt Romney has said about China that already wasn't said by those who detest China (Koreans, Taiwanese, even Japanese), if not with more vitriol. No cries of war so far.

    There won't be dangerous ideology spreading within China because the government is strong enough to stop it. Random religious factions won't split the nation with civil war for obvious reasons. Terrorist threats? I'm guessing mucho surveillance, mass evictions and quarantines, and even random torture / execution. If the middle east was as organized as a police state as China was, the Arab Spring and even 9/11 doesn't happen.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    The dangerous ideology is Chinese nationalism, just like Japanese nationalism in the previous century.

  • ||

    That jsut does not make any sense at all dude, none!

    www.Totally-Private.tk

  • Sea Czar ||

    Kudos for the Hunter S. reference on the anniversary of his death.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    It has done little to make trouble beyond its borders.

    (except for propping up its ally North Korea, committing acts of piracy on the high seas...)

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