Brian Doherty | April 20, 2009
(Page 2 of 2)
There is more material—some ridiculous, some sensible, some questionable—on the Internet about this one bill than any citizen could possibly care about. While the level of factual and analytical rigor of the material varies widely, all of it is available and searchable.
To put it another way, the H.R. 875 debate is a lively representation of what “journalism” in a post-newspaper age can do for “democracy.” Which is something far more important and detailed than just one writer with a million other things on his plate making a few calls and making a decision for you. (Meta-ironies noted.)
Certainly, it’s more convenient for a reader to think he’s read one 900-word piece in a respected source and therefore understands some public policy topic. The debate over H.R. 875 may well be an example of the rising dominant model of political reporting: contentious fighting among often careless, agenda-driven forces producing all of the information that the truly interested would need to know what they need to know.
It may well effect the superegos of some Sunday New York Times readers to realize that what they really wanted from the news was little more than what they were supposed to know or think about certain topics in the circles they move in—that they really don’t give enough a fuck about abstruse areas of public policy that don’t directly effect their daily lives to go through the trouble to get to the bottom of things.
When journalism no longer makes it easy for such people to feel on top of current events—when the thing journalism in a Web world actually makes easy is gaining access to a dizzying variety of information and opinion, not access to presumed-trustworthy predigested conclusions—it won't necessarily be a bad thing. As for H.R. 875, the actual legislation—God forbid you or your elected representatives ever resort to this—is just a fingertip away if you ever want to read it for yourself and reach own conclusions.
Senior Editor Brian Doherty is author of This is Burning Man (BenBella), Radicals for Capitalism (PublicAffairs) and Gun Control on Trial (Cato Institute).
*An earlier version of this piece mistakenly attributed to Rep. DeLauro's office a statement that big food production companies support H.R. 875.
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Man people are crazy. No more backyard gardens! Hah!
Whats next, the CEO of MADD as chairman of NHTSA!
"The intent of the bill[...]"
And without even finishing the article, may I extend a cheery "Fuck
you" to all the legislators in Washington. How many times have we
been bulldozed by their little horrors, only for the crafter of
such-and-such legislation to whine about what the intent of the
bill was, as opposed to how it actually ended up?
It may well effect affect the superegos of some Sunday New York Times readers to realize that what they really wanted from the news was little more than what they were supposed to know or think about certain topics in the circles they move in-that they really don't give enough a fuck about abstruse areas of public policy that don't directly effect affect their daily lives to go through the trouble to get to the bottom of things.
Pet peeve fixed.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I've tried in my own meager way to help this issue get one traction
on my own little corner of the net, I'm glad to see the heavy
hitters finally give it the attention it deserves.
I did get into the unintended consequences of well meaning
legislation with the president of the Institute for Agriculture and
Trade Policy over on
Mother Jones I made some headway, but he soon resorted back to
his "better regulation solves everything" default.
One thing I'd like to see Reason do, ask the well intentioned
liberal foodie champions like Michael Pollan their thoughts on
legislation like and the proposed National Animal ID System. Do
they realize the harm their well meaning laws can cause to their
beloved local, organic, hipster food sources?
I loved your intellectual meanderings here (and I swear not in a sarcastic sense). This started out as an article about gardening and evolved into an article about the democratizing effect of information access by way of questioning the wisdom of trusting broad powers to unaccountable authorities and criticizing the news media establishment. Great work man, very amusing. As for the original call of the article, I'll grow illegal produce if I must and enjoy the illegal flavor and nutrition happily. My zucchini? From my cold, dead hands!
Vines and Cattle:
Just flipped to your MoJo link. Interesting stuff. I'll snippet
here for the more focussed H&R readers:
The future of food, in other words, will be built from ideas and models that are familiar, relatively simple, and easily distilled into a buying decision: Look for the right label, and you're done.
But that's not the reality. Many of the familiar [organic/local] models don't work well on the scale required to feed billions of people. Or they focus too narrowly on one issue (salad greens that are organic but picked by exploited workers). Or they work only in limited circumstances. (A $4 heirloom tomato is hardly going to save the world.)
My zucchini? From my cold, dead hands!
Sounds like what you need is a second amendment for organic
veggies. But only for a valid, sporting purpose and with reasonable
regulations, natch.
This bill is just the CSPIA of food. I highly recommend reading Overlawyered's coverage of the CSPIA and of the new bill, to get an idea on what it would do to the small time food industry.
Soon, police come charging through your door to shoot your dog after using thermal imaging equipment to locate the illegal tomato grow-op in your attic.
Paul, in the future I would advise against using "zucchini" and
"sporting purpose" in hte same post.
Unless you mean it that way, of course. NTTAWT.
I'm less worried about what it'll do to small-time gardeners and
farmers markets than medium scale operations.
There will probably be exceptions added for farmers markets and
local coops, but then there will be huge barriers if any of these
people try to expand beyond that. Most of these small scale farmers
aren't going to want to deal with the regulations and just will
choose not to grow beyond whatever arbitrary limits are
imposed.
So we'll have a bunch of hlocal ippie markets and then a few big
corporate agriculture companies dominated the mainstream economy,
and no mechanisms for anyone to get big enough to threaten their
market share.
and no mechanisms for anyone to get big enough to threaten
their market share
...which is exactly the point of this legislation.
Likely the execrable DeLauro will define excepted 'small gardens' as those not exceeding 100 sq ft in area and not presenting for harvest any more than 100 lbs of produce/year. Crap, did I just give her an idea?
Exactly Hazel, you just created a new niche market for grass
beef or organic okra? Sorry, you're now Tyson + Wal Mart in the
Fed's eyes.
And that's just how Tyson wants it.
Paul, in the future I would advise against using "zucchini"
and "sporting purpose" in hte same post.
Actually, I started my post making reference to Zuchhini and "cold,
dead hands", but it wasn't really working, so I veered off the
road. However, thanks for the heads up.
"A $4 heirloom tomato is hardly going to save the world"
Maybe not, but it'll make a damn fine BLT.
Good, maybe if government power start screwing up things liberals like too they'll start understanding our opposition to stateism
So we'll have a bunch of hlocal ippie markets and then a few big corporate agriculture companies dominated the mainstream economy, and no mechanisms for anyone to get big enough to threaten their market share.
Franchise. Each individual o&o biz, following a cookie-cutter
plan, would come under the limit, but together they'd rival the big
single entities.
I've seen the gen'l phenomenon of which Brian Doherty writes and
how information costs (basically the cost of that limited resource,
att'n) create leaders for good or ill. In the 1990s a certain FFDCA
reform bill was disingenously opposed by a certain grassroots
leader who disseminated disinformation about it (it would've had
the opposite effect, which you had to go to the trouble of reading
it in the context of the statute it was to amend) in order to
harness pressure for reform in directions he &
some of his followers wanted. Took me a while to
analyze the legislation & trace the disinfo thru its conveyors,
some of whom were probably innocent and others knowing.
But on the subject of bills like this, sometimes I wonder whether
we'd save a lot of wrangling if the whole of gov't consisted of
"wise men" of unlimited jurisdiction, with the whole of the law
being that whatever is done must be dictated by "common sense".
We'd save all the trouble over technicalities, and any law could be
overturned based on failure to conform to the judge's common sense.
And anyone who contested such matters and lost would be understood
as lacking in common sense, and thereby derive a lot of sympathy,
while the victors would be understood as on the side of common
sense, and thereby derive a lot of sympathy too.
Well, personally, I'd favor a more powerful judicial branch,
which is basically the same thing.
Plus a few constitutional amendments to strengthen protections for
private property, strengthen the takings clause, and the 10s
amendement.
Those three things would probably solve most libertarians problems.
Not that any of them is likely. The majority will never vote of an
amendment that bars them from seizing the "rich people"'s property
whenever they feel like it.
FWIW, I posted a blurb about this story in my blog (which just made double digits in unique visitors, yeah!). Click the link on my Reason handle (long time lurker) if there is any interest. As always, great story Brian with some interesting ideas for thought.
The War On Drugs is being expanded into the War On All Things
Consumable.
And with Cap and Trade, soon we'll all need permits to fart.
Journalists like to think of themselves as uncovering all the
hidden mis-deeds of the powerful, but really they want to be the
gate-keepers of this information. They want to know who is
comitting the crimes, and be able to dole it out to the public in
measured doses, whenever they(the "journalists") see fit.
This is why the newspaper industry is dying, in the age of the
internet - they have lost control of this information, and no one
wants to pay to read it on paper.
One more thought - the government is now asserting its right to
control every aspect of your life, including how you breath, in
terms of CO2 emissions. This bill fits nicely into the package of
controls on how you live your life. It will be used to make sure
that no-one ever does anything un-PC again...
Question: Somewhere, I read that, tucked away in this little gem
of a bill proposed by the Monsanto executive's wife, is the
government's right to seize any farm property that does not comply
with whatever "regulation of the week" is imposed. Can anyone
verify this? If true, and, given the accelerated rate of takeover
of finance, energy, transportation and housing, it might be worth
more general attention that the food supply will be next on the
list.
Oh, and rxc - I am going to do my part and only exhale every other
day. Gee, I hope my green plants don't die from lack of CO2.
I think this bill has problems once the hippy-types here in Seattle and elsewhere on the left coast realize that it could be applied to farmers' markets.
DaveS: "I think this bill has problems once the hippy-types here
in Seattle and elsewhere on the left coast realize that it could be
applied to farmers' markets."
The problem with that is, the hippy-types all believe it when their
favorite statist legislators tell them the law isn't intended for
farmers' markets. We have that problem with CPSIA too. The same
people who are all for locally produced and upcycled children's
items are all convinced these items are to be exempted, because the
bill's authors swear on a stack of Bibles that they really didn't
intend to write the law they wrote.
The real problem is the disrespect for the rule of law. The law now
is supposed to mean not what it says, but what Congress says it
says (and since they don't even read it, they can say it says
whatever the hell they feel like). It's a frickin' Mad Hatter's Tea
Party-- it's all "I say what I mean" and "I mean what I say."
Congress doesn't even respect the law enough to let it have any
meaning independent of what they think it ought to be, but they
expect all of us to bow to their interpretation.
I'm amazed that in the article, and in the comments, there is no
mention of the recent furor over the "toy safety" bill and the
impact of the regulatory implementation of high cost testing for
lead and other substances on small producers of toys.
The legislation was prompted by the lead paint in some Chinese
manufactured toys, but the implementation regs could have been
described as an act "to make the US toy market safe for Chinese
mega-producers". In the end, there was a temporary retreat by the
regulatory agency, but don't be surprised if they're back soon with
the same junk, once they think the coast is clear of pesky
objectors.
No wonder small farmers and gardeners are wary of this legislation
that appears to have the potential for the same kind of perverse
side effects!
Do a search on Twitter for a massive discussion of this massive govt over-reach http://search.twitter.com/search?max_id=1583876558&page=1&q=hr875
Monsanto is probably the most significant govt-created monopoly since the East India Company. I've wondered why I've seen them defended here on Reason actually. Doesn't seem to make any sense. But anyway, I'm sure they'll somehow be the ones to benefit from this at the expense of small farmers.
What can you expect when an ex CEO of Monsanto runs the FDA? While the so called elected officials in DC give you a dog and pony show, just ask farmers what hovac Monsanto has created with them! It's big take over corp cartels all the way and they've got your officials in THEIR pocket. Don't let them fool you with this bill and DONT LET IT PASS. The reason you're poisoned with food is the lack of proper inspection in so much imported food. It's time Americans grew their own basic foods, isnt it? And they need to follow existing laws, not make more.
how are they going to enforce this? create a virus to wipe out
non-patented produce? even if they don't, enforcement will lead to
famine in the event of catastrophe, the most likely being crop
failure due to overuse of monoculture agriculture methods
these lawmakers have ingested too much lead, they need to die off
to let a new generation of lead eaters into public office
This is how it goes. Glabalist agenda per Kissinger logic. "He who controls the food controls the world" Add thirty+ years of chemical biotech control in government. Sprinkle in alot of unknowing superflous such as immigrant and developing countries give them a small amount of power and pay them well. Make them comfortable, ie.Alberto Gonzalez. Then when the shit hits the fan criminalize them. Look out Delauro!!!!
"In other words, the feuding 875 community is divided about
trusting the future well-meaning of government regulators."
Uh no. The 'war on drugs' was started by "well meaning
regulators'
NAZI Germany was FULL of well meaning regulators.
I came to this article late. As an attorney who has spent the
last quarter century watching federal and state agencies interpret
and expand laws in ways that strain credulity, I think the bill's
opponents have every reason to fear. Administrative agencies are
worse than the legislature in this regard, because they generally
avoid public notice and are more easily captured by interested
constituencies.
Just one more example: when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was
passed, Congressional supporters assured us that the employment
provisions would never, ever, be interpreted to outlaw neutral
employment policies that were not intended to be discriminatory,
and that mere disparate impact would not be actionable. But within
less than a decade, the EEOC and the Courts had decided that
neutral employment policies that were not intended to be
discriminatory, but which had disparate impact, were indeed
unlawful and actionable.
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