Dead on the Fourth of July

Jesse Helms, 1921-2008

(Page 2 of 2)

The senator took the bait: "Why, of course I remember you, Jesse." He smiled warmly, looked me straight in the eye, spoke in a confidential tone, and gave me the heartiest handshake I had ever encountered.

It should have been a private moment of triumph. Instead it taught me what a born politician can do. For a second, I forgot the whole plan and believed him.

Jesse Walker is reason's managing editor.

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  • Tom Walls||

    Jesse Helms is yet another figure libertarians can simultaneously praise and deride.

    I love driving left-libs and conservatives crazy.

  • Nutter||

    Now why couldn't Bob Barr manage something like this article instead of kissing the corpses ass before it was even cold?

  • Tom Walls||

    Probably more to deride than praise... I re-checked his voting record and it isn't as great as I remember it being, particularly on economic issues.

    He gets anywhere from a 69 to 87% from NTU and 75% on personal and economic liberties from the RLC. Not too bad, but nothing to jump up and down about.

    I'll never forget Helms' reported referring to Dear Leader Kim Jong Il as "Kim Jong Two."

  • Big Cat Kahuna||

    ...knowing as I did that he hated my hometown and the liberal-leaning university it contained...

    You knew this? In the fifth grade? Really? That is really, well, kind of sad.

    One of the class chaperones fell into step beside me. "Thanks," he said, "for not spitting in his face."

    Did you have a penchant for spitting at strangers generally? If not, then I have pity on the rest of your class. I can't imagine that being said to a high school student, much less a 10 year old, by someone ostensibly tasked with supervising them.

    But I digress..

    I am right there with you Mr. Walls. The man absolutely belonged to a (thankfully) old order that he fought tooth and nail to defend. Yet, while his motives are a bit disturbing, I have to say I agree with some of those positions. Affirmative action should certainly be abolished and to suggest that ending the NEA (a position which I also support) is tantamout to censorship is, well, tantamount to lying--or at least being very confused.

    Personal Anecdote. My father (from Charlotte, N.C.) had a neighbor of color who was personally very grateful to Jesse H., as he had helped him cut through red tape regarding some tax issue. I doubt the man voted for Mr. Helms though; nor did dear old dad for that matter.

  • ||

    The New Deal showed that segregationists were comfortable with socialism, as long as they were not expected to associate with "nig-ruhs"; when liberals justifiably expected Jim Crow to be overturned, Helms and his type suddenly became "States Rights" anti-federalists. Nothing Helms did was truly in the defense of liberty.

  • Jesse Walker||

    Did you have a penchant for spitting at strangers generally?

    No.

  • SIV||

    Another quote from Jesse Walker's piece...

    Helms' anti-statist rhetoric wasn't entirely a pose.
    Pretty fair assessment from someone who grew up in the shadow of the "University of Negroes and Communists"

    Senator Helms was far from perfect but he made the right enemies, at home and abroad.

  • ||

    An excellent article Jesse. I'm with Nutter, what are we going to do with Barr?

  • emmajane||

    He was an evil, hateful man, and not a friend of liberty unless of course you were a white, straight Christian. Brilliant politician, though.

  • Rhywun||

    he shared the segregationists' hostility to two provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act



    Which two provisions...?

  • ||

    He was an evil, hateful man, and not a friend of liberty unless of course you were a white, straight Christian.

    Make that
    unless of course you were a white, straight, male Christian.

  • ||

    but he made the right enemies

    And...also the wrong enemies.

  • Jesse Walker||

    Which two provisions...?

    Title II (discrimination in public accommodations) and Title VII (discrimination in employment). Basically he didn't want the government interfering with private businesses' decisions about who to serve or hire.

  • ARENA||

    Why all the hate for Roberto d'Aubuisson ?

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    "I am right there with you Mr. Walls. The man absolutely belonged to a (thankfully) old order that he fought tooth and nail to defend."

    The old order of white supremacy you mean? Like the Confederate rebels fighting tooth and nail to defend that old "peculiar institution?"

  • Kyle||

    good article.

    I grew up in NC as well, with a family that thought Jesse Helms was the best thing since sliced bread.

    But of all the articles about him over the weekend, no one has yet to approach the topic of why people continued to vote for him. What was the key factor that tipped the scale in his favor with NC voters time and again?

  • ed||

    Jesse Helms was the best thing since sliced bread

    Would that be Wonder Bread?

  • ||

    Alright. The most convincing argument for any libertarian to support Helms is his supposed opposition to affirmative-action. At least that's what his defenders keep saying.

    However, Helms and his ilk were VERY SUPPORTIVE of affirmative action and other protectionist ( as in protecting the jobs of marginal white people) policies as long as they were to the benefit of white folks.

    It was all about " don't let those blacks take our white jobs." It was not about the free market, freedom of association, best mean for the job,etc.

    We libertarians oppose affirmative-action for the right reasons, not that we are interested in benefiting some group at the other's expense.

    Racists like Helms simply knew how to rhetorically appeal to people who opposed actual affirmative action.

    Libertarians and so-called free market conservatives who actually believe the Helms bullshit- well he did a good job fooling you.

  • ||

    People voted for him because he was "conservative" in an area with a lot of "old fashioned conservative" racists plus people who weren't strongly racist but probably bought his bullshit like some so-called libertarians have on issues like affirmative action.

    I guess the same reason Hillary Clinton won West Virginia.

    BTW, I don't think Helms ever won by convincing margins- he tended to receive around 55% support, which is of course enough to win.

  • ||

    Some things are just beyond the pale. Jessee was a segregationist and a racist. There is no two ways about it. I don't care how pro states rights he was. I don't care how right he was about communism. I never had any use for him when he was alive and I pray for his soul now that he is dead.

  • ||

    Condolences are in order for Senator Helms' family and friends. I am sorry for their loss.

    That having been said, here's hoping that Helms is reincarnated as a hemorrhoid on Ted Haggard's ass.

  • ||

    "BTW, I don't think Helms ever won by convincing margins- he tended to receive around 55% support, which is of course enough to win."

    Jessee won his last few elections for two reasons. First, the Democrats ran candidates against him that were too liberal for the state. If they had run a good bo weival Democrat against him, Jessee might have been in trouble. Second, I think a lot of people in North Carolina voted for him as a way of saying fuck you to the big media and northeastern liberal establishment. If they had just shut up and ignored Jessee rather than making running him out of office a point of national pride, Helms would have had fewer supporters.

  • Jesse Walker||

    The Helms-Hunt election of 1984 was one of the most entertaining pieces of political theater I've ever seen. In North Carolina, it penetrated the popular consciousness so much that some members of my Boy Scout troop -- a Boy Scout troop! -- parodied one of the campaign ads on a skit night. (I suppose Big Cat Kahuna will find that "really, well, kind of sad.")

    I've searched on YouTube for my favorite anti-Hunt commercial (featuring slow-mo "actual footage" of Hunt "voting to raise your taxes," which is kind of puzzling since Hunt was a governor and not a legislator, but never mind that). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be out there.

  • JMR||

    On the subject of politicians recalling names, my own experience in Tallahassee as a state house page comes to mind. At the end of the week, we were all herded together to pose with Bob Graham -- a bunch of 15 and 16 year old kids in our Sunday best. We had gotten to know eachother over a week, and this was the last thing on the last day.

    The kid next to me had spoken briefly with Graham about a year earlier, and Gov. Graham immediately recalled not only the kid's name, but he also picked up again on their conversation. The kid told me later that no adult -- and especially no politician -- had ever made him feel so special & important, despite the fact that he couldn't vote yet. He remarked how it's easy to understand why so many people voted for Bob Graham. And I understood, so I understand how you feel, too, Mr. Walker.
    JMR

  • ||

    "In North Carolina, it penetrated the popular consciousness so much that some members of my Boy Scout troop -- a Boy Scout troop! -"

    Jessee,

    I think Helms was as much cultural phenonenon as anything else. I think a lot of people voted for him becuase he was their guy and putting him in the Senate every six years drove certain people nuts. Sending Jessee Helms to the Senate was just a good way for Southern people to tell self rigous Northern liberals to fuck off.

  • emc||

    This is a great article. I too grew up in NC and was in 5th grade during the Helms-Hunt race. The constant TV ads were so ugly and misleading to my 10-year old mind that it turned me off to politics completely. Then, I started questioning the way everything in politics (and the world) worked....

    It is possible that I would not be a libertarian today without having been subjected to the 1984 Helms-Hunt Senate race. Thanks Jesse!!

  • ||

    John, I agree with your analysis, but it's shit like that what makes me ashamed to tell people I live in Kentucky.

    Wouldn't the best revenge for Southerners against Northern liberals be for the Southerners to stop acting like ignorant fucking rednecks, so that that Northern cliches simply become lies?

    Nothing sickens me more than people who are inordinately proud of their complete ignorance.

    (Keep in mind, within a half-hours' drive I can find you a tar-paper shack with a satellite Liquid-nailed to the roof.)

  • ||

    satellite dish

    Although the first way would actually be kinda cool.

  • ||

    SugarFree,

    When I was in law school back in Oklahoma my friends and I once had a debate on how you can tell if someone is "white trash" or what it means to be white trash. The consensus seemed to be that you are white trash if you live in a shack or a house in need of serious repair and have an expensive boat, pickup and or large sattilite dish in the front yard.

  • ||

    I would agree with that definition.

    Completely off topic: A guy in my neighborhood was giving away a perfectly good boat and my wife wouldn't let me take it. She made all these sound logic arguments, like pointing out that I hate boats and fishing, and we live no where near the water, and we didn't have room in the driveway. Man, she bugs me sometimes.

  • ||

    One of the things that make good politicians good, regardless of ideology, is their extraordinary memory for people. It wouldnt surprise me if J Helms was not lying about remembering Jesse Walker. Unless I missed a detail in there.

  • Jesse Walker||

    I suppose that's possible, Matthew, but I really doubt it. If the two-year gap between extremely fleeting encounters wasn't enough to erase the memory, the fact that I was now taller, with braces and pimples, should have done the trick.

  • ||

    I think Helms was as much cultural phenonenon as anything else. I think a lot of people voted for him becuase he was their guy and putting him in the Senate every six years drove certain people nuts. Sending Jessee Helms to the Senate was just a good way for Southern people to tell self rigous Northern liberals to fuck off.

    Oh yeah, what a great way to show them damn Yankees. I can imagine the thought process behind this, "Those Yankees think we're a bunch of racist, ignorant rednecks! Fuck them, let's elect an ignorant, racist redneck* to represent us in the Senate. That'll show 'em!"

    * Helms proudly described himself as a redneck.

  • ||

    I once had a debate on how you can tell if someone is "white trash" or what it means to be white trash.

    Class warfare! Class warfare!
    Damn that felt good.*

    *see Weigel's Helms thread.

  • ||

    Wouldn't the best revenge for Southerners against Northern liberals be for the Southerners to stop acting like ignorant fucking rednecks, so that that Northern cliches simply become lies?

    Wouldn't work. Plenty of Northerners are also ignorant fucking rednecks, and plenty of Southerners aren't.

    The best revenge is to stop caring what Northerners think. I believe most Southerners are already there.

  • ||

    R C Dean,

    Your theory of Panredneckism intrigues me. Kudos.

  • ||

    "I once had a debate on how you can tell if someone is "white trash" or what it means to be white trash.
    Class warfare! Class warfare!
    Damn that felt good.*

    *see Weigel's Helms thread."

    "White trash" is a state of mind not a state of economics. There are plenty of poor people who are anything but "white trash". Those are the poor people who work hard, keep their homes up, aren't criminals and don't blow their money of dumb ass shit at the expense of things that they might actually need. White trash in contrast can be either rich or poor. White trash is the guy who makes a fortune owning the local Harley Dealership, has a former striper wife, moves in next door to you, lets his kids run wild and vandalize your mail box, and has the cops come out to his house at least twice a month over a domestic disturbance.

    There is lots of "white trash" out there who are anything but poor. Hell some of them are millionaires. Some are even celebrities.

  • ||

    John,

    I know, I was just razzing you. As much as 'class warfare' may really take place, if we (in the name of political correctness, squelch discussion on the different attitudes among poor people and the ways in which their poverty and worldview comingle, we do a great disservice to candid dialogue.

    But that was a pretty good post you made.

  • ||

    I endorse of that sort of candidness as long as there is some form of tact.*

    *For instance, Bill Cosby's recent controversial comments about urban poor African-Americans.

  • Bastard of Art and commerce||

    Is Donald Trump white trash?

  • ||

    FWIW for all the Barr haters out there, jumping all over him for courting NC voters by speaking no ill of the dead -- Obama was headed for North Carolina yesterday before his plane broke down. Now, why do you think Obama thought NC was in play?

    (Hint: Barr stealing conservative voters from McCain.)

  • ||

    Thanks ART. It is not about money it is about class. Some people have lots of money and no class. In fact, these days the more money you have, the less class you seem to have. I recently read where the founders of google are almost to blows over the details of their new custom 767. It was on Drudge a few months ago. Man, that is classic white trash. That is no different than someone tricking their monster truck.

  • ||

    "Is Donald Trump white trash?"

    I believe the answer would be.....YES!!!

  • ||

    Ivanka Trump has a disturbingly small head.

  • ||

    Maybe it is that picture, but it looks to me like Ivanka's left boob is much larger then her right one.

  • Roderick T. Long||

    Back when I was teaching at UNC Chapel Hill I heard how Jesse Helms had once gotten a UNC instructor fired for assigning Andrew Marvell's poem "To His Coy Mistress."

  • No Name Guy||

    John has summed up what "white trash" is very nicely. Its kind of like the white version of when Chris Rock talks about what he calls "Black people" versus what he calls, well, the term he uses begins with an "N".

  • ||

    R C Dean,

    Your theory of Panredneckism intrigues me. Kudos.


    The biggest rednecks I've ever seen was in the Inland Empire in California. And I've been to almost every corner of this great nation. Also, kudos to John on his treatise on white trash.

    Ivanka Trump has a disturbingly small head.

    It only looks like that because after she heard the Whos caroling*, her breasts grew three sizes that day.

    * And by "heard the Whos caroling", I mean swiped Trump's credit card at a Palm Beach plastic surgeon's office.

  • ||

    "They only voted for a bigot to piss of northerners" is considered to be a defense of abominable behavior.

    As if hating northerners is not only morally neutral, but respectable enough to make an otherwise loathsome act appear more acceptable.

    How about, they only voted for Helms to piss off black people? They only voted for Helms to piss off gay people?

    How about, they only voted for Sharpton to piss off white people? Make you like Al Sharpton voters any better?

  • ||

    Can white people from big cities be white trash? Or is there some other related term?

    I've toyed with the word "greennecks" to describe a certain type of South Boston/Somerville/Worcester resident. And "Archies" is always good, but Archie and Edith kept their place in good shape.

  • No Name Guy||

    Joe, there are a few, shall we say "choice" words that refer to ethnic white Northeasterners.

  • ||

    Yes, no doubt, but that doesn't quite get at the issue. The term "white trash" contains the word "white" specifically to refer to people who are not "ethnic."

    Maybe that's the nub; the socio-cultural-class differences among white people in the urbanized north align with ethnic boundaries, in a way they don't in the hinterlands.

  • ||

    You know, it's worth meditating on exactly what it was that those northern outside agitators were doing in the 50s-70s that made so many Jesse Helms voters want to stick it to them for the next, oh, sixty years and counting.

  • No Name Guy||

    Thats because in the South, you're either white or your not. There was zero large scale immigration in the former Confederacy from the early 1800s to the late 70s.

    You're WASP (the plantation elite and their descdendents), Scots-Irish (redneck, "American" on the census), or black.

  • ||

    Right, right.

    It's interesting to consider what would have happened if there had been significant numbers of "white ethnics" in the South prior to the Civil Rights era. Would they have been considered white? Would some other categories have been invented, as in South Africa? Would it have broken down the strict racial caste system, or just made it more complicated?

    During WW2, Japanese-American soldiers sent to train in the South were assured that they would be treated as white people.

  • aurelio||

    I suspect that Helm's opposition to the NEA had a lot to do with his disapproval of the art it was supporting and little if anything to do with the fact that government money was going to support art generally. If more of the art financed paintings of happy white families smoking at the dinner table with blacks outside working the fields, he probably would have argued that a great nation needs great art.

  • SIV||

    There was zero large scale immigration in the former Confederacy from the early 1800s to the late 70s.

    define "large scale"


    You're WASP (the plantation elite and their descdendents), Scots-Irish (redneck, "American" on the census), or black.

    That would be news to the Native-American, Jewish, German, French,Greek, Lebanese etc descended peoples of the region. Coastal cities in ante-bellum times were very diverse and cosmopolitan.In the early to mid 20th century southern department stores were nearly all owned by Jews and many restaurants by Greeks. Look ata map of the south and you will find more than a few Polish place-names.

  • No Name Guy||

    SIV, thats nothing compared to the immigration to New York and Boston. Theres a reason the North was outstripping the South in population at the time of the Civil War, and only extended its lead until the 60s.

    What you're talking about is small-scale compared to Ellis Island.

  • No Name Guy||

    "It's interesting to consider what would have happened if there had been significant numbers of "white ethnics" in the South prior to the Civil Rights era."

    There were some Italian laborers that tried to be share croppers in Louisiana. They eventually left, because when they tried to organize a Union, ask for better wages/working conditions, etc, the plantation owners realized using blacks who were legal inferiors was much easier and fired them.

  • SIV||

    joe,

    there were white ethnics in the South.

  • No Name Guy||

    Give me the name of the port all these white ethnics came through in the pre-WWII south. Records of the numbers of people going through ports are easily researched.

    I bet the number of foreigners coming through Norfolk and Chrleston wasn't even 1/100th of New York, Philadelphia, or Boston's number.

  • SIV||

    No shit No Name,


    We didn't have the sheer numbers of immigrants the North did because the south was largely agrarian. Our industrial base and trading ports took a little bit of a beating in 1861-65 and didn't really recover for 100+ years.

  • No Name Guy||

    You forgot the part where it really, really sucks to have to compete against labor thats enslaved.

  • SIV||

    No Name,

    Look at a map of Texas, or ccheck a phone book in North Alabama . A shitload of Krauts(relatively speaking) came over here sometime after the Civil War.

  • No Name Guy||

    I think I remember hearing about that.

    And theres the "Mississippi Chinese" that came after 1865. Strangely, they even joined the "White Citizens Councils" when they became successful.

  • ||

    SIV,

    I know - particularly in places like New Orleans - which is why I wrote "significant numbers of." Ever read "A Confederacy of Dunces?"

    There were poor white WASPs in New England, too.

    Nonetheless, in both cases, they were too few in number, and too isolated from the social mainstream that defined the culture, to have much of an impact.

    You write, Coastal cities in ante-bellum times were very diverse and cosmopolitan. which is entirely true. I argue that the culture in the South was defined by its "red" areas, while the culture in the North was defined by its "blue" areas. This goes back to the different settlement patterns which defined the regions. The communal settlement patterns of the Puritans in New England and the urban trading ports of the Dutch and English, vs. the plantation/pseudo-country squire system in the agricultural South.

  • ||

    SIV,

    I saw recently, in a documentary about Japanese-American soldiers in WW2, that when they were sent to places like Louisiana and Mississippi for training, the Army and the locals were quick to assure them that they would be considered honorary white people.

  • Kolohe||

    Oh yeah, what a great way to show them damn Yankees. I can imagine the thought process behind this, "Those Yankees think we're a bunch of racist, ignorant rednecks! Fuck them, let's elect an ignorant, racist redneck* to represent us in the Senate. That'll show 'em!"

    This is a fairly common trait in voting blocs.

    Another example: Marion Barry & the urban african american community.

  • jwpegler||

    Curious on how Helms could be so decidated to racism yet also work with Bono to dole out tax money to help Africa. Makes no sense.

    I lived in NC for four years while I was in the Air Force. My sense is that Helms was able to stay in office for one reason -- he brought the bacon home to tobacco farmers.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Can white people from big cities be white trash? Or is there some other related term?

    Does "Guido" only refer to Italian Americans? If so, we could steal "Chav" from the Brits.

  • ||

    I noticed in another board one libertarian saying that he would have supported Jesse Helms simply because of his [Helms] support for lower taxes. It's a sad day when we sacrifice the belief that all races are created equal in favour of a closeted white supremacist simply because he favours lower taxes.

    While our politics is pretty screwed up, I'm gratified that we never had to deal with a man like Jesse Helms.

  • Amakudari||

    Oh yeah, what a great way to show them damn Yankees. I can imagine the thought process behind this, "Those Yankees think we're a bunch of racist, ignorant rednecks! Fuck them, let's elect an ignorant, racist redneck* to represent us in the Senate. That'll show 'em!"

    No, it's more being irritated at how people with no material connection to the South say the South should be. I'm aware that's a stupid reason, but it's real. I've lived in the Bay Area, too, where the politically active can be equally assertive. No one's trying to shatter any stereotypes. And ultimately, his base wanted agricultural protectionism and social conservatism, so I'd never say the defiance vote held much sway.

    I know plenty of Charlotteans and Research Triangle folk who had a slightly more special Fourth. Helms was a nasty representation of my state, so there's no use waxing poetic about his "service." And it's disappointing that Barr wants to court Helms's fanbase. There's a middle ground between praise and pissing on his grave.

  • ||

    If Helms personal hatred of black people had any practical political effect, I could see a libertarian taking it in to effect when voting. But it didn't. To the contrary, because the GOP refused to tolerate segregationist sentiment, the only outlet Helms had for his anti-black views was strong opposition to the illiberal, completely unlibertarian race based preference popular at the time. On the other hand, taxes were a real issue. They could have gone up or the could have gone down. Helms generally tried to keep them down. That doesn't make him a good person or a particular politician, but it does make him better than all the douche bags he ran against.

    I also find it a little curious how offended the OLM is about Helms' "black hand" ad. That ad was taking the pro-libertarian position against government discrimination. That it brought home in raw terms the kind of visceral racial hatred such programs engender was its greatest virtue as an ad. It sometimes seems that the OLM is so caught up in their PC sensibilities that they forget what side they are on.

  • SIV||

    Helms personal hatred of black people

    I highly doubt Helms actually "hated" any particular group with the possible exception of communists. He was certainly no 'libertarian' saint but what actual legislation did he pass that so harmed Blacks or gays?

    (quite a bit of substitution of his use of the term negroes with "niggers" going on all over the internet)

    I still credit him immensely for what he did to communists, internationalists and "artists".

  • ||

    On the other hand, taxes were a real issue. They could have gone up or the could have gone down. Helms generally tried to keep them down. That doesn't make him a good person or a particular politician, but it does make him better than all the douche bags he ran against.

    I like low taxes, but WTF?

    That it brought home in raw terms the kind of visceral racial hatred such programs engender was its greatest virtue as an ad. It sometimes seems that the OLM is so caught up in their PC sensibilities that they forget what side they are on.

    Sure, if you ignore the entire history of the South, the ad is only slightly offensive.

  • ||

    It's a mistake to conflate "racism" with "hatred."

    It's also a dodge used by people who want to dumb down the definition of racism to exclude everything short of a desire for violence.

  • ||

    "On the other hand, taxes were a real issue. They could have gone up or the could have gone down. Helms generally tried to keep them down. That doesn't make him a good person or a particular politician, but it does make him better than all the douche bags he ran against."


    Not really, I consider white supremacists and segregationists to be worse than those who support taxation.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "I also find it a little curious how offended the OLM is about Helms' "black hand" ad. That ad was taking the pro-libertarian position against government discrimination."

    I was also implicity anti-black and reminded North Carolina that only Jesse Helms could protect them from the black man. Helms did believe in interference in the economy, but only if white jobs were at stake.

    "It sometimes seems that the OLM is so caught up in their PC sensibilities that they forget what side they are on."

    Sorry, my PC sensibilities tend to go off at white supremacist and segregationist politicians.

  • ||

    Well, one thing this waste of space masquerading as an artilce proves is that Senator Helms was right in his dislike for most of the worthless blight in Chapel Hill that passes as citizens of the ol' north state. It is the most backward area of the entire state most of whose residents are compeltely blinded by the very noses they continually try to look down towards the rest of the state.

    Among the many mistakes that the liar lincoln made during the war of norther aggression would be that he didn't follow through as he did in Virigina and seperate Chapel Hill from the rest of North Carolina. Of course that action may have been premature since it likely preceeded the drop in common sense that permeates the area now.

    God Bless Jesse Helms.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    Wow, you guys really can't let go of slavery can you?

    The south lost, and it's a damn good thing.

  • ||

    I found Jesse Walker's Obit and personal recollection of meeting the unrepentant "RACIST sinner" Jesse Helms to be very PC Liberal/Libertarian.

    So Jesse Helms had a rather dim view of the people who lived and ran things in Chapel Hill/Durham N.C. - Jesse Helms considered most of these folks to be elitist PC Northeastern Liberals who had moved to his beautiful Southern State and proceeded to try to mess up everything he and his supporters cherished.

    Think Jesse was way off base and was just a an old, segregationist RACIST who resisted positive "Change"?

    Check out recent events in Jesse Walkers "progressive"/Libertarian Chapel Hill/Duke Durham NC.

    Duke Lacrosse team rape hoax - PC lynching, MSM media lies
    Murder of Eve Carson - suspects let off from past violent crimes, Eve Carson brainwashed into embracing "diversity", "tolerance", "multiculturalism" to the point she didn't defend herself against murderers.

    As for Jessie Helms' foreign policy, , domestic policy economic tax issues.

    Jesse Helms was way more right than wrong.

    Anyone here now think Jesse Helms was wrong to stand up for the White minority, anti Communists in Rhodesia Zimbabwe - or perhaps there are some Libertarians here who think former PC saint Robert Mugabe has implemented sound free market economic policies to go along with his "non racist" racial policy promoting Black Majority rule - one man, one vote, one time - then it's Idi Amin style dictatorship.

    Yeah, maybe Jessie Helms wasn't a young, hip Libertarian all the time. But he was a man of principles who stood up for regular good folks who elected him and yeah, most of these regular good folks where Southern White working class folks who didn't graduate from Duke or UNC Chapel Hill. They also didn't get murdered or enable murderers of Eve Carson or waste their lives obsessed only with free market economics.

    I think there should be a Lynard Skinard song defending Jessie Helms from attacks by PC liberal/Libertarians.

    Peace.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian | July 10, 2008, 6:56pm | #

    Wow, you guys really can't let go of slavery can you?

    The south lost, and it's a damn good thing.


    As much as I would love to point out the idiocy of this post it isn't worth the trouble. Jesse Helms was a great man and represented the state of North Carolina and the United States to a level that the testicularly challenged occupants of D.C. can never hope to aspire.

    I for one belived that Jesse's testicles should have been removed at death, bronzed, and placed in the rotunda of the Capital building so the passing Congressmen could see what a "pair" looks like. There will likely be a need for a sign since it is questionable if the members will recognize what a "set" looks like.

    God Bless Jesse Helms!

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • ||

    In his later career Helms accepted that he had lost on the segregation issue, hired black staff members and mostly accepted the new order of things in the South. I like people who act better than they talk rather than the other way 'round.

    Helms deserves credit for his war on the UN, a corrupt, anti-American, anti-Semitic anti-democratic bureaucracy preying on the American taxpayer.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "As much as I would love to point out the idiocy of this post it isn't worth the trouble."

    Don't worry, you summed it up by bashing Lincoln. It simply shows that the same mindset which idolizes a racialist system is still in place in the south.

    "I for one belived that Jesse's testicles should have been removed at death, bronzed, and placed in the rotunda of the Capital building so the passing Congressmen could see what a "pair" looks like. There will likely be a need for a sign since it is questionable if the members will recognize what a "set" looks like."

    Don't worry, I'm sure the Ku Klux Klan or some neo-Confederates already have rights to it. It's kind of like Lenin's tomb in the old USSR.

    "Anyone here now think Jesse Helms was wrong to stand up for the White minority, anti Communists in Rhodesia Zimbabwe"

    Probably because he was simultaneously supportive of ensuring blacks in South Africa didn't have rights. Once again white supremacists don't really have much traction with me. Apparently some of us believe that people should have liberty regardless of skin colour, something Helms never believed in.

    "Jesse Helms considered most of these folks to be elitist PC Northeastern Liberals who had moved to his beautiful Southern State and proceeded to try to mess up everything he and his supporters cherished."

    Yeah, if only southerners found other ways to deal with those goddamn Northeastern liberals who wanted to mess up everything southerners cherish.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/4/newsid_2962000/2962638.stm

    As said before I can't stand Racialists, Nazis, Fascists, Segregationists, and White Supremacists. They do have a right to spew their vile hatred, but don't be surprised if some people decide to call out a cowardly racist inbred demagogue like Helms.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian

    Are you completely and utterly ignorant or are you tyrant wannabe or both?

    lincoln siezed power, imprisioned dissenerts, burnt towns, starved people, never freed a single slave in the union, imprisioned Francis Scott Key's grandson in the very prison he wrote the Star Spangled Banner, and on and on. In the end he managed to kill over 600,000 people and destroy 1/3 of the economy over the colleting taxes that by any standard or morality were obscene.

    It's nice to meet the perons who put the word ass in dumbass.

    As for you slander in trying to equate a man like Helms with the kkk etc. If you were are arms legenth the offense would not go unchallenged or punished.

    South Afirca, Rhodesia? Where the hell are you now? Where is your "outrage" and the daily rapes and murder of whites by blacks? Closer to home, where is your outrage at the 37,000 rapes of whites by blacks in the U.S. vs ZERO for whites raping blacks? Keep in mind blacks only make up 12.7% of the population. Maybe you are one of the poor timid soles who have succmed to "whte guilt" and believe whites deserve such treatment. If so send you wife and sister there quickly so they can suffer for you.

    Calling out a coward? Well certainly it takes a brave man, the empotime of fortitude, to call a cadaver names. No doubt when you bones rot in the grave and people pass by neither stopping or caring, Mr. Helms will be revered for the truely great man he was.

    Coward sir? You define the term.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • Canadian Libertarian ||

    Hmm, where did I say that I approved of rape by anyone? As for the part about Lincoln find a single war where one side was completely innocent? Can you do it, probably not. In the end I think we're all glad that the north won over the Confederacy.

    "As for you slander in trying to equate a man like Helms with the kkk etc. If you were are arms legenth the offense would not go unchallenged or punished."

    Better go get a rope.

    "Closer to home, where is your outrage at the 37,000 rapes of whites by blacks in the U.S. vs ZERO for whites raping blacks?"

    Can you get me a source for this statistic?

    "Keep in mind blacks only make up 12.7% of the population. Maybe you are one of the poor timid soles who have succmed to "whte guilt" and believe whites deserve such treatment. If so send you wife and sister there quickly so they can suffer for you."

    Show me a case where a man has gotten out of rape just because he's black.

    "No doubt when you bones rot in the grave and people pass by neither stopping or caring, Mr. Helms will be revered for the truely great man he was."

    Don't worry, I'm sure alot of those in South Carolina will never care about those who fought against slavery and for civil rights while revering people like the segregationist Helms.

    "Coward sir? You define the term."

    Someone who attempts to appeal to racist sentiments time and time again to win election in a state notorious for it's racial conflicts.

  • ||

    Sir, your attempts at obfuscation will not succeed with me. I did not claim you approved of rape, the question was your silence on the subject concerning the former Rhodesia and South Africa. Your willingness to crticize Senator Helms for his policies in those countries coupled with you silence on them now shows your bias. Your colorblindness only looks to come in white.

    Your attempted diversion regarding lincoln's war is just as invalid. My comment and point had nothing to to with being "completely innocent" but evrything to do with the Constitution and original intent. Again, you myopia for people and policies you support is telling. I might add that unless you have a mouse in your pocket exactly who is the we in "we're all glad the north won"?

    The statistics you desire come from the Federal Bearu of Investigaion and can be easily viewed on line. I'll afford you the benefit of the doubt for having the "sight" to find them.

    "Show me a case where a man has gotten out of rape just because he's black."

    Again with the muddy water? I never claimed one has, but will tell you a young white woman was raped by a negro waited to inform the police of the crime for fear of being deemed a "racist". No doubt you didn't see that one either.

    "Someone who attempts to appeal to racist sentiments time and time again to win election in a state notorious for it's racial conflicts."

    You need to provide a nonmoving definition of the term "racist". Senator Helms did not resort to any type of "racism" concerning any defintion of which I am aware. Maybe you would be kind enought to stop calling a cadaver names and provide such and example.

    If ignorance is bliss, your the happiest man I now.

    God Bless Jesse Helms.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • ||

    Helms remains a curiosity to me; an acquaintence of mine who has connections in Washington (and is himself fairly liberal) tells me that Helms, for all his bombast, was well liked on a personal level and was considered a savvy politico.

    Two questions: 1) Is is possible that at least some of Helms's "racism" was political posturing (a la George Wallace), and...

    2) What does Helms's popularity inside the beltway tell us about the inside workin's of the town...

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "I did not claim you approved of rape, the question was your silence on the subject concerning the former Rhodesia and South Africa."

    You mean that you're in favour of racial segregation if its done in the name of anti-communism. I'm sorry sir, but two rights don't make a wrong.

    "Your attempted diversion regarding lincoln's war is just as invalid. My comment and point had nothing to to with being "completely innocent" but evrything to do with the Constitution and original intent."

    Not really, in my world Confederate support for slavery is worse than Lincoln's northern aggression.

    "I might add that unless you have a mouse in your pocket exactly who is the we in "we're all glad the north won"?"

    People with an IQ over 90, and those who happen to be in minority groups. I'm sure that plenty of whites such as yourself wish that the south had won and continued their racist policies.

    "Your willingness to crticize Senator Helms for his policies in those countries coupled with you silence on them now shows your bias."

    I'm sorry, I don't have any issue opposing regimes which are inherently racist and fascist.

    "You need to provide a nonmoving definition of the term "racist". Senator Helms did not resort to any type of "racism" concerning any defintion of which I am aware."

    Well, outside of using fear amongst whites such as yourself of those goddamn negroes who are raping white women I'd consider that racist.

    You must have brought that rape statistic on here for a reason. Was it to validate Helms belief that civil rights would lead to white women being raped by the black menace.

    and to think that in the 21st century people in the south still believe this racist bullshit.

  • ||

    Here's hoping Canadian Libertarian or is it Canadian "liberal" gets to move to the new Zimbabwe, the New South Africa and enjoy the benefits of living in an official "non racist" country.

    "Racism" is of course defined by the PC crowd, which sadly now includes respectable Libertarians as being exclusively a sin for White people.


    Non Whites can't be Racist. Under the George Orwellian concept of political correctness, when Whites work for the common good of their people that's horrible "RACISM". When non Whites do the same or much worse - ie LaRaza - THE RACE, Black Congressional Caucus, ANC, NAACP, BET, Black and Latino criminal gangs like the Bloods, Gangster Disciples, M13 - it is supposed to be either a good thing or something that isn't talked about or thought about in polite society.


    Jesse Helms may not have been perfect, but he wasn't a "hater" he understood reality including racial realities, knew the history of Haiti, Reconstruction, the 60s turmoil. Blacks certainly had rights to live safe decent lives under Jesse Helms' program, same as Blacks enjoyed comparatively safe, prosperous lives in South Africa and Rhodesia before those countries were turned over to Black anti White racist tyranny

    Jesse was a good honest man, with principles and yeah, some balls. He stood up for the legitimate rights and culture of his own people - and I as a Northern Yankee acknowledge the fact that White Southerners are good people.

    Take care Jesse Helms you were mostly all right.



    JE

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    ""Racism" is of course defined by the PC crowd, which sadly now includes respectable Libertarians as being exclusively a sin for White people."

    Racism is supporting the oppression of those based soley on their skin colour. So far you fit the bill.

    "Non Whites can't be Racist. Under the George Orwellian concept of political correctness, when Whites work for the common good of their people that's horrible "RACISM"."

    George Orwellian? First of all, you don't work for the common good of your race. That's tribalism at its finest.

    "When non Whites do the same or much worse - ie LaRaza - THE RACE, Black Congressional Caucus, ANC, NAACP, BET, Black and Latino criminal gangs like the Bloods, Gangster Disciples, M13 - it is supposed to be either a good thing or something that isn't talked about or thought about in polite society."

    I have never heard of a single person praise the Bloods. The NAACP was formed due to the fact that blacks were oppressed in the south.

    "Jesse Helms may not have been perfect, but he wasn't a "hater" he understood reality including racial realities"

    I often hear modern day racists dress up their racism as being "racial realists."

    "Blacks certainly had rights to live safe decent lives under Jesse Helms' program, same as Blacks enjoyed comparatively safe, prosperous lives in South Africa and Rhodesia before those countries were turned over to Black anti White racist tyranny"

    That just didn't include the same rights as white people get correct? Are you stating that you're opposed to giving rights and liberties to people soley based on their skin colour?

    "Jesse was a good honest man, with principles and yeah, some balls. He stood up for the legitimate rights and culture of his own people"

    What do you mean by his own people. Shouldn't we be striving to ensure every individual in the west has full rights regardless of their race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.

    I only wish more people on hear would condemn this euphoria for the good ole days of Jim Crow, Lynching, and Apartheid.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian

    "You mean that you're in favour of racial segregation if its done in the name of anti-communism. I'm sorry sir, but two rights don't make a wrong."

    I mean that I will not allow my children and wife to be sacraficed on the alter of multiculturalism to satisfy the self-righteous blabbering of idiots. Are you suggesting that you are willing to do such a thing?

    "Not really, in my world Confederate support for slavery is worse than Lincoln's northern aggression."

    So beliefs, laws, and the Constitution are to be equated with so much used toilet paper to be disposed of when someone decides they don't like the restraints. Interesting point of view.

    Maybe you would also like to explain why the liar lincoln never freed a single slave in the United States or why he sought a plan to deport the negro out of the country. The truth is that slavery would have died a natural death without a war, the death of over 600,000, and the destruction of 1/3 of the economy just as it did in nearly every other nation which allowed it. Most in the South did not support slavery nor did they own slaves but did seek to defend themselves from the invaders, looters, murderers, and theives that permeated lincoln's army.

    "People with an IQ over 90, and those who happen to be in minority groups. I'm sure that plenty of whites such as yourself wish that the south had won and continued their racist policies."

    Since it is a wide spread belief among liberal intelligentsia that IQ tests are "racist" your use of the "racist" concept of IQ is quite telling. Are you a closet racist and or bigot? For your penitence say 10 "hail obamams" and slander 5 more dead conservatives before you start gnashing your teeth.


    "
    I'm sorry, I don't have any issue opposing regimes which are inherently racist and fascist."

    Yes, one might say you are legend in your own mind perched high on the dung heap of political correctness which only faces towards the "white" community while ignoring and excusing all the other races inhabiting the planet. Congratulation your self deception is complete.


    "Well, outside of using fear amongst whites such as yourself of those goddamn negroes who are raping white women I'd consider that racist."

    At what point have I made such a statement as "goddamn negroes"? At what point have I, or Senator Helms, performed the necessary posture or policy, from your own definition, that seeks to subjugate anyone? Since you have yet to point out a single instance but are only able to call names and slander people on of the follwing must be true.

    1. You are incorrect in your slander by using the term "racist".

    2. That the definition of "racist" is the every changing bar subject to the whim of the person who uses the term in the hope of silencing debate.

    or

    3. You lack the moral fortitude to admit when you are wrong.

    Am am waiting on the edge of my seat for your answer.

    "You must have brought that rape statistic on here for a reason. Was it to validate Helms belief that civil rights would lead to white women being raped by the black menace."

    No doubt your wife is happy that everything about you is not as short as your memory. The mention of the crimes being committed in South Africa, Rhodesia, and even the United States were to point our you hypocrisy and have done so quite effectively, with your help of course.

    Just because you don't like the facts and or statistics provided doesn't make them or the person "racist". Maybe you mistke slander and name calling for intellegent discourse but not everyone follows you delusion and will not be silenced by them.

    As for your comment about "white women being raped by the black menace", what conclusion would you arrivee from these FACTS? Oh, no wait, you'll now assert that the rapes are a result in the reduction of funds for midnight basketball or maybe "poverty" causes rape now. This shold be interesting.

    "and to think that in the 21st century people in the south still believe this racist bullshit."

    Well that didn't take long. After slander, name calling, etc. you now introduce profanity. Can't say it comes as a shock other than by how quickly that your reservoir of intellegence turned out to be more shallow that first believed.

    You beliefs in a 'convient' intrepretation of the Constitution and oaths of office coupled with you attempts to silence debate can only leave one conclusion, you sir are a fascist. You only wish to allow speech and the lives of people to be exercised along the lines and boundries you see fit. The insecurity of such a view is quite telling of the person espousing it. It seems Mussolini has been reincarnated in Canada. All hail Duche!

    In the end our lives, culture, heritage, beliefs, nation, and families cannot be allowed to pass from history by those who seek to sacrafice them to the multiculural god they worship. The natural affection one feels for these things must outweight the onslaught of those who would silence discussion and slowly watch them die for their own selfish interest.

    I stand against you and what you would do to those things I hold dear. I will not be silenced. I will not be cowed. If our forefather resisted the bayonets of the British then your words are so much mule dung to be scrapped off my shoe.

    God Bless Jesse Helms and again...

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "You beliefs in a 'convient' intrepretation of the Constitution and oaths of office coupled with you attempts to silence debate can only leave one conclusion, you sir are a fascist."

    and you sir, are a inbred hick.

    "Oh, no wait, you'll now assert that the rapes are a result in the reduction of funds for midnight basketball or maybe "poverty" causes rape now."

    No, but I don't believe race causes rape.

    "The insecurity of such a view is quite telling of the person espousing it. It seems Mussolini has been reincarnated in Canada. All hail Duche!"

    That's a pretty brazen statement considering your support of racialism and fascism in South Africa during the Apartheid era.

    "In the end our lives, culture, heritage, beliefs, nation, and families cannot be allowed to pass from history by those who seek to sacrafice them to the multiculural god they worship."

    You actually have the gull to call me a fascist. Obviously, you know nothing about fascism either. Especially since you seem to believe that segregation was needed to ensure your culture was intact.

    "I mean that I will not allow my children and wife to be sacraficed on the alter of multiculturalism to satisfy the self-righteous blabbering of idiots. Are you suggesting that you are willing to do such a thing?"

    No, I can peacefully coexist with people of all races.

    "Maybe you would also like to explain why the liar lincoln never freed a single slave in the United States or why he sought a plan to deport the negro out of the country. The truth is that slavery would have died a natural death without a war, the death of over 600,000, and the destruction of 1/3 of the economy just as it did in nearly every other nation which allowed it. Most in the South did not support slavery nor did they own slaves but did seek to defend themselves from the invaders, looters, murderers, and theives that permeated lincoln's army."

    As compared to Nathan Forrest and his wonderful views of them negroes?

    With regards to Lincoln not freeing a single slave, have you ever heard of the emancipation proclamation?

    May I also ask this question, if slavery were to naturally die, then why did it take so long for the south to finally bury Jim Crow?

    http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/hus-emancproc.htm

    "2. That the definition of "racist" is the every changing bar subject to the whim of the person who uses the term in the hope of silencing debate."

    Probably because you insinuated that due to the facts blacks have full rights in America they are now likely to rape white women due to those rights.

  • Canadian Libertarianism||

    "I stand against you and what you would do to those things I hold dear."

    You mean, ensuring the darkies don't rape your wife ever since the Ayran race was usurped by those goddamn Lincoln lovers while talking about how beautiful South Africa was under Apartheid, and how the Sharpeville Massacre was more than likely totally justified.

    Don't worry, we've found against those things you've held dear for centuries. Luckily my group includes people like Thomas Paine, Wilberforce, Martin Luther King Jr, and Milton Freidman.

    Your camp however includes Nathan Forrest, David Duke, and George Wallace. Needless to say I prefer my camp over yours.

  • Canadian Libertarianism||

    "The natural affection one feels for these things must outweight the onslaught of those who would silence discussion and slowly watch them die for their own selfish interest."

    The natural affection for what things exactly?

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarianism |


    "You mean, ensuring the darkies don't rape your wife ever since the Ayran race was usurped by those goddamn Lincoln lovers while talking about how beautiful South Africa was under Apartheid, and how the Sharpeville Massacre was more than likely totally justified."

    My meaning has been adequately explained. Your idiocy concerning defense of one's wife against a rapist makes it sound like a bad thing. No doubt a man of your character would be more likely to charge a fee for the event as opposed to defending her honor.

    You contined efforts to avoid the issues and answering specific questions by resorting to name calling fortified by profanity are becoming a bore.

    "Don't worry, we've found against those things you've held dear for centuries. Luckily my group includes people like Thomas Paine, Wilberforce, Martin Luther King Jr, and Milton Freidman."

    Paine turned out to be a pain. His pre-socialist socialism coupled with his basic denial of Christianity made him somewhat of a pariah in his later years. So which did you like more, his socialistic views or his anti-Christian views?

    Martin L. King Jr. was a well known whore monger and communist sypathizer who was made a national hero because he was shot. That was followed by the government sealing the truth of his views and activities from society and the people who passed the "holiday". One is left to wonder what would have happened if Senator Helms have prevailed in his efforts to make them public.

    I find your use of Mr. Freidman somewhat perplexing too since you have advocted the type of control of one's thoughts and speech that can only be achieved by government controls. That would be the exact opposite of what a man like Freidman would have wanted. I may as point out the Paine's views would have been in contrast with Mr. Freidman as well.

    Mr. Wilberforce managed to end slavery without violation his countries founding documents, laws, and without killing anyone in the process. Why on earth would you bring up a man who wasn't willing to kill a few hundred thousand people for his own self interests?

    "Your camp however includes Nathan Forrest, David Duke, and George Wallace. Needless to say I prefer my camp over yours."

    Ah, yes the ever present slanderous retort. As for "camps", that was my point in stressing the following of the very Constitution you hold in such lite regard. The freedom and liberty of association with whom one so chooses is fundamental. It is you and your "camp", bankrupt as it is, that seeks to silence dissent and would by force make people suffer that which they do not want nor support.

    Your "camp", sir,has had it's chances in many countries around the world. From the former USSR to Mr. "gee ain't liberation great" Mugabe. In each instance it failed at the cost of thousands if not millions of lives. In the end it will fail here as well.

    God Bless Jesse Helms and again...

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarianism | July 15, 2008, 8:01pm | #


    "The natural affection for what things exactly?"

    Here is a great idea you may not have tried yet. READ THE ENTIRE POST, for a change.

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "Paine turned out to be a pain. His pre-socialist socialism coupled with his basic denial of Christianity made him somewhat of a pariah in his later years. So which did you like more, his socialistic views or his anti-Christian views?"

    Well, he did author Common Sense, a major tract which helped with the American Revolution.

    I did like his anti-Christian views, more or less because it's somewhat obvious from your own views that Christianity has done more harm than good.

    However, just because a person believes that every man should be equal before the law regardless of race does not make them a socialist.

    http://www.reason.com/news/show/120352.html

    "Martin L. King Jr. was a well known whore monger and communist sypathizer who was made a national hero because he was shot. That was followed by the government sealing the truth of his views and activities from society and the people who passed the "holiday". One is left to wonder what would have happened if Senator Helms have prevailed in his efforts to make them public."

    Don't worry, I'm sure that all of those southerners are infallible while they were lynching blacks and killing girls in sunday school.

    "I find your use of Mr. Freidman somewhat perplexing too since you have advocted the type of control of one's thoughts and speech that can only be achieved by government controls. That would be the exact opposite of what a man like Freidman would have wanted."

    I never knew Freidman supported segregation, can you show me a quote or reference where he said civil rights would lead to white women being raped by blacks?

    "Ah, yes the ever present slanderous retort. As for "camps", that was my point in stressing the following of the very Constitution you hold in such lite regard. The freedom and liberty of association with whom one so chooses is fundamental."

    So, your basically arguing that whites should be seperated from blacks, correct?

    "It is you and your "camp", bankrupt as it is, that seeks to silence dissent and would by force make people suffer that which they do not want nor support."

    By opposing Jim Crow laws and segregation correct?

    "Your "camp", sir,has had it's chances in many countries around the world. From the former USSR to Mr. "gee ain't liberation great" Mugabe. In each instance it failed at the cost of thousands if not millions of lives. In the end it will fail here as well."

    Are you then arguing that race mixing will destroy America?

    "Here is a great idea you may not have tried yet. READ THE ENTIRE POST, for a change."

    Well, it's difficult to debate with someone so infatuated with the idea that Martin Luther King Jr was evil for opposing the oppression of his people.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "Here is a great idea you may not have tried yet. READ THE ENTIRE POST, for a change."

    I'm not sure whats more disturbing, the fact that you believe blacks must be given second class status because you think they'll rape your wife, or your utopic vision of the Fascist regime in South Africa.

    Either way, it's unfortunate to see that David Duke will still find an audience in some parts of the south.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "In the end our lives, culture, heritage, beliefs, nation, and families cannot be allowed to pass from history by those who seek to sacrafice them to the multiculural god they worship. The natural affection one feels for these things must outweight the onslaught of those who would silence discussion and slowly watch them die for their own selfish interest."

    I'm not sure what your talking about. I've never seen North Carolina as multicultural. I've lived in many cities with a large amount of minorities, never once got raped, or heard of a large number of women getting raped due to it. Perhaps you have a skewed view of the world.

    By the way, I'm glad you mentioned Christianity. Isn't it odd that all of those good ole Christians down south didn't have much love for their fellow man if he was black, or more recently if he was a homosexual. That is until the Supreme Court struck down those absurd sodomy laws.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    First of all Jesse, you stated that Jesse Helms stood up for the legitimate rights of his people correct?

    Those people would be his white people, basically meaning darkies need not apply as they aren't full American's. On your little spiel about how slavery would have naturally died out, I have my doubts. More or less because after slavery you guys implemented Jim Crow laws which essentially made all blacks second class citizens. Each time it actually took a nudge from the courts and federal government to ensure black people were actually made equal before the law in the south.

    Thus my question is this...

    How can any person who fully supports liberty actually state that its alright to subject one group of people to a lower caste simply due to their skin colour? Is it not a complete offense to humanity to do this?

    Your entire mantra is that one group of people deserve more rights over another group of people based on arbitray physical characteristics. This isn't liberty, and it certainly isn't individualism.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian | July 15, 2008, 11:56pm | #



    "I'm not sure what your talking about. I've never seen North Carolina as multicultural. I've lived in many cities with a large amount of minorities, never once got raped, or heard of a large number of women getting raped due to it. Perhaps you have a skewed view of the world. "

    I just don't know how to make it any clearer.

    Concerning "your" experiences...nothing trumps FACTS like anecdotal evidence eh? Like I said, just becuase YOU don't like the facts doesn't make the wrong or racist as you continue to imply. Ignroing them will not make the go away or change the reality of the situation. Nor will it stop people from taking up arms to protect themselves and seek a way to secure their families.

    If I hold any "skew" maybe it would be from real life experiences among a high population of negroes. Having grown up in that environment I can address many of the "facts" of which I quote from that FBI report. It is also noteworthy to tell you my wife, who grew up in New York state, experienced and saw the same abuses from the negroes there. Guess negro predjucice and crime just doens't happen down South as you would like us to belive.

    Nothing like watching your friends in the 7th get robbed by 20 year old high school drop outs, not to mention being pummeled by them. How about the constant groping of the young white females in the hallways of school by the negroes? Think they enjoyed that? Of course it was rarely, if ever, punished by those in charge since they feared being called "racist".

    It is amazing that YOU would force upon any and everyone YOUR point of view. If a group has a crime rate, what the hell you'll all just have to suffer from it. Does an identifialbe group have a illgitimacy problem? Well screw your kids they will have to go to school with those who lack self control and moral character. If one group has trouble keeping up in school, scew the rest of the kids, they'll just have to be held back so the others don't feel bad. If some people won't work and pay their way, scew the rest of society and let the government steal their bread and give it to those who won't earn it for themselves. If someone isn't qualified for the job, to bad we need to fill the quota so you and your family will just have to suffer. The list is endless and yet you consider this preferable to allowing people to follow what they deem is in their own best self interest.

    "By the way, I'm glad you mentioned Christianity. Isn't it odd that all of those good ole Christians down south didn't have much love for their fellow man if he was black, or more recently if he was a homosexual. That is until the Supreme Court struck down those absurd sodomy laws."
    You mean the sodomy laws the the people passed through their elected officals in a lawful and Constitutional manner?

    You mean the Christians and that belief upon which the United States was founded? You mean the same sodomy laws that a few years before the court, correctly, upheld? You mean the sodomy laws that outlawed the lewd un-natural use of a mans anus? You mean the sodomy laws the protected our children from sodomites like the ones who lied when they took their vows in the Catholic Church only to molest young males?

    One can only guess at your stance concerning bestiality, pornography, drugs, prosituition, and kiddy porn. No wait, don't tell me, don't open your mouth and remove all doubt. Nothing like forcing a society into the gutter for one's own personal pleasure eh? One question begs to be asked....do you find more pleasure in your perverions on the fact you can force them upon the people?

    Yes, it would seem you haven't yet a tyrant you didn't like unless he were white and in your opinion he is a "racist". Of course that would be the all encompasing, everchanging, gee let's silence debate defintion of the term. In a pinch when one doesn't like the law, just have some dumbass liberal judge who lied when they took the oath to uphold the Constituition and sees themselves as a "lord" of society stike down the expressed will of the people. I don't know what Consitution you have read but the one in this country does not guarantee a right to buggery.


    You sir are a tinplated tyrant, who's wish is to force your will, your whim, upon society not allwoing even the slightest dissent or discussion. Heaven help the poor soles who seek to exercise their God given rights in a democratic republic for they would surely be disappointed if they relied upon your whim to do so. One can only conclude that you hold such politcal figures as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot in high regard. They too sought to deny people those God given rights you disdain.

    I'll sleep much better knowing you are NOT in any type of postion to impose your world view. Good luck with selling you "philosopy" in the world of ideas, for I shall dobut if you will have many followers in the end.

    God Bless Jesse Helms and yet again....

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian | July 16, 2008, 12:04am | #

    "First of all Jesse, you stated that Jesse Helms stood up for the legitimate rights of his people correct?


    Those people would be his white people, basically meaning darkies need not apply as they aren't full American's. On your little spiel about how slavery would have naturally died out, I have my doubts. More or less because after slavery you guys implemented Jim Crow laws which essentially made all blacks second class citizens. Each time it actually took a nudge from the courts and federal government to ensure black people were actually made equal before the law in the south."

    Damn son, why all the typing, just resort to calling Mr. Helms and myself "racist bigots" and be done with it. Then you can again just restate your postion that courts and elected officals shouldignore their oaths and charge of office for whatever they choose, just so it fits YOUR postion on an issue. See, look at all the space it saved?


    "Thus my question is this...

    How can any person who fully supports liberty actually state that its alright to subject one group of people to a lower caste simply due to their skin colour? Is it not a complete offense to humanity to do this?"

    When did I state such a position? Mine has been the oppsite fo such while you continually seek to impose you view upon society.

    "Your entire mantra is that one group of people deserve more rights over another group of people based on arbitray physical characteristics. This isn't liberty, and it certainly isn't individualism"

    My mantra? LOL, your the one who continues to expouse that point of view. From your statment you belive that liberty and freedom must be dictated to the people by a government that oppress them which, of course, isn't liberty and freedom at all.

    I seek the original intent of the founders codified in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I seek a democratic republic where the people are allowed to have a voice in their government and the laws they live under. I seek a society that is free to enjoy life without fear for crime and degenerate behavior, is they so choose. I seek a society that allows freedom of association. I seek a secure future for my children and grandchildren like my forbarers tried to provide for me until tyrants like you took over the and started dictating what THEY thought society should be like.

    Sic simper tyrannis!

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • Canadian Libertarian||

    "I seek a society that is free to enjoy life without fear for crime and degenerate behavior, is they so choose."

    So, only white heterosexual Christian males deserve freedom in your society.

    "From your statment you belive that liberty and freedom must be dictated to the people by a government that oppress them which, of course, isn't liberty and freedom at all."

    So, freedom should only apply to people like yourself.

    "One can only guess at your stance concerning bestiality, pornography, drugs, prosituition, and kiddy porn. No wait, don't tell me, don't open your mouth and remove all doubt. Nothing like forcing a society into the gutter for one's own personal pleasure eh?"

    Actually, I think most libertarians are supportive of liberty when it comes to pornography, prostitution, and drugs. It is consenting adults after all.

    "You sir are a tinplated tyrant, who's wish is to force your will, your whim, upon society not allwoing even the slightest dissent or discussion."

    Actually, you've stated that you believe you should be given the right of a tyrant based upon your belief that homosexuals should be imprisoned for having relations between consenting adults, that people shouldn't be allowed to view porn. Not to mention the belief that things which cause a society to become 'degernate' must be outlawed.

    "One can only conclude that you hold such politcal figures as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot in high regard. They too sought to deny people those God given rights you disdain."

    Not really. As has been stated before your god given rights only appeal to white heterosexaul christian males. If I have to choose between a white supremacist and a communist I choose neither.

    "How about the constant groping of the young white females in the hallways of school by the negroes? Think they enjoyed that?"

    I'm not sure, in my high school white males groped white females. I don't really see what the colour of their skin had anything to do with it.

    "Good luck with selling you "philosopy" in the world of ideas, for I shall dobut if you will have many followers in the end."

    Actually, it seems that this site has alot of supporters. Thus far we should all be glad that your racialist ideology went in the garbage heap of history.

    "It is amazing that YOU would force upon any and everyone YOUR point of view. If a group has a crime rate, what the hell you'll all just have to suffer from it. Does an identifialbe group have a illgitimacy problem? Well screw your kids they will have to go to school with those who lack self control and moral character."

    See, your stating that people shouldn't be given the same rights and freedoms as whites due to factors which are not in the individuals control. You would deny the basic rights of a black man the ability to be successful simply because he is black.

    "You mean the sodomy laws the protected our children from sodomites like the ones who lied when they took their vows in the Catholic Church only to molest young males?"

    You mean North Carolina doesn't have laws about child molestation and sexual assault?

    Damn, you guys still are living in the dark ages.

    "I seek a secure future for my children and grandchildren like my forbarers tried to provide for me until tyrants like you took over the and started dictating what THEY thought society should be like."

    Well, tyrants like us fought against the Nazis in World War 2. So, yes we are very much like those tyrants. Besides, most societies which are based of racial supremacy often tend to end up executing degenerates and other second class citizens. You should be glad that some people recognized that slavery and segregation were wrong, something you still don't understand.

  • ||

    I think we should rap up comments on Jesse Helms' death/life. There are closed minds on this subject.

    There really is no trying to use reason, common sense, appeals to tradition when arguing with 100% hard core Libertarian true believers, same goes with 100% Liberals. Mass Governor MIke Dukakis still, to this day doesn't understand why anyone made a big deal about him granting an unsupervised weekend furlough to Black rapist, murderer Willie Horton.

    The Liberal/Libertarian true believers are cultists and these cults hisssss "RACIST" at anyone who points out the obvious facts of life that there are different races, ethnic groups, cultures and all societies have to understand the realities of race and culture.

    In contrast, honest, regular working folks who live and die (get robbed, raped, terrorized) in the real American world 2008 have little use for idiot Liberals/100% libertarians.

    In contrast, regular, honest folks in North Carolina honored and respected Jesse Helms - he cared about his people and tried to help and protect them in an increasing brutal, vulgar, deceitful America.

    Take care Jesse Helms you have been liberated from having to listen to know it all idiot Liberals/Libertarians. The rest of us who have been left behind have to suffer these fools until the end.

  • ||

    Canadian Libertarian


    "So, only white heterosexual Christian males deserve freedom in your society."

    Again, nowhere have I offered this point of view. You are making up statments then trying to attribute YOUR thoughts to someone else. Try staying on subject and what has actually been said as opposed to what you "think".


    "So, freedom should only apply to people like yourself."

    There you go again. Refer to my above comment.




    "Actually, I think most libertarians are supportive of liberty when it comes to pornography, prostitution, and drugs. It is consenting adults after all."

    Well after avoiding my point, this comes as NO suprise. The difference between you and I is that these issuse should be left to community standard reflected through their elected representatives. Where, you, would force them to accept what they resist and have no deisre to live around. Tyranny sir, tyranny.



    "Actually, you've stated that you believe you should be given the right of a tyrant based upon your belief that homosexuals should be imprisoned for having relations between consenting adults, that people shouldn't be allowed to view porn. Not to mention the belief that things which cause a society to become 'degernate' must be outlawed."

    There you go again, see my first comment and then the one above this statement.


    "Not really. As has been stated before your god given rights only appeal to white heterosexaul christian males. If I have to choose between a white supremacist and a communist I choose neither."

    See comment one and then the one above the previous paragraph.



    "I'm not sure, in my high school white males groped white females. I don't really see what the colour of their skin had anything to do with it."

    I can assure you that was exactly the case in my wife's and my high school. Race had everthing to do with it. Of course your lack of condemnation of the activity speaks volumns.


    "Actually, it seems that this site has alot of supporters. Thus far we should all be glad that your racialist ideology went in the garbage heap of history."

    Yes, all the problems of the world are solved by calling people "racist" or "racialist" or "bigots" or the politically correct nom de jour, as it were. I am the only one who noticed our society has not benefited as you continue to insist it has?

    All I have adovcated for is the right of self determination in a representative government. Those are the very things you contiually oppose unless it meets your standards. Of course by defintion if a government has a system of approval or the ability to dicatate what a society is, believes, and how they live that would make such a system a monacrchy or some other despotic totalitrian system. Heil Candaian libertarian!


    "See, your stating that people shouldn't be given the same rights and freedoms as whites due to factors which are not in the individuals control. You would deny the basic rights of a black man the ability to be successful simply because he is black."

    No, YOU don't see. I am adovocating the elimination of excuses and the forthright detention and prosecution of ANY and ALL criminals in our society. Many of the problems in our country and the black community are a direct result of the "poor negro" syndrome. These idiots claim that because more negroes are in jail the system must be "racist". It's gotten so insane we even think the referees in sporting events are "racist" for calling infraction more heavly against the negroes.


    "You mean the sodomy laws the protected our children from sodomites like the ones who lied when they took their vows in the Catholic Church only to molest young males?"


    "Damn, you guys still are living in the dark ages."

    Yes we are so stay the hell away from here. Oh ya, this should be considered applicable to anything below the Mason-Dixon line. We seek to protect our children and seem them raised in a manner of our choosing. Something YOU would not allow if given the power to do so. Stalin, Mao, and Hitler would be proud.


    "Well, tyrants like us fought against the Nazis in World War 2. So, yes we are very much like those tyrants. Besides, most societies which are based of racial supremacy often tend to end up executing degenerates and other second class citizens. You should be glad that some people recognized that slavery and segregation were wrong, something you still don't understand"

    That is patently false. Tyrants fought against tyrants? So which side were you on, Stalin or Hitler? Probably Stalin since he was a bigger tyrant who murdered far more people than Hitler and for icing Stalin was a communist.

    Those who fought in WWII from the U.S. sought to preserve the wisdom of the founders and the gifts of liberty they bequeathed our nation. They sought to preserve our birthright from threats inward as well as outward. They have given us a nation beyond measure even though we have spent the last 50 years trying to wreck it.

    They did NOT fight for the "rights" of abortion, illegitmacy, rape, welfare, affirmative action, buggery, un-natural homsexual marriage, food stamps, prostitution, pornography, forced integration, section 8 housing, and on and on. To suggest such will get you severly beaten if uttered in the wrong crowd.

    It is a testament to the greatness of the founders this nation, though somewhat co-opted, still surevies. This greatness lies dormant within the people. Once the people are allowed to see the wisdom of the founders and this nation's foundations there can be no doubt as to a swift and rightful return to those foundings.

    Sic Semper Tyrannis!

    Y'all have a nice day.

  • ||

    Jesse Walker's harsh, negative obituary of the late N.C. Sen. Jesse Helms sadly, demonstrates how corrupt, out of touch Libertarians have become from regular Americans who have to live and work in the real world.

    Sen. Jesse Helms was an honorable, principled leader of his fine state who stood up for the legitimate rights of regular folks in North Carolina. These folks did not have PHDs in economics from the University of Chicago, they did not do internships at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, they did not profess to have the answers to save the world, bring about universal equality in the world under the United Nations, nor did they profess to have a plan to bring prosperity to the whole world by implementing free market economic reforms and the free movement of goods, services, capital and labor - yeah Libertarians, Sen. Jesse Helms and his supporters didn't support open borders immigration to allow the whole Third World including Al Qaeda, HIV + child rapists in South Africa to immigrate into the USA.

    Sen. Jesse Helms was a good man who was not a complete *#&@@#$ idiot.

    For those saying Jesse Helms supporting "lynching innocent Blacks", returning American to slavery and the horrors of segregation, please know that 0 innocent Blacks were lynched in the State of North Carolina while Jesse Helms was Senator.

    While Jesse Helms won admiration and repeated election victories in N.C. by appealing to poor and working class White voters, most Black Americans in the state respected him, knew he was a fair man.

    In contrast the Liberal/Libertarian over educated, work shirker American chattering class always looked down on Jesse Helms and his supporters.

    So be it.

    RIP Sen. Helms you were a great man who had the common touch.

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