Veronique de Rugy from the May 2008 issue
(Page 4 of 4)
Brian
Riedl, a budget analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation,
explains: “The common usage of defense supplemental bills has
increased non-defense spending as well. Lawmakers now try to shift
budget-resolution funds from defense to domestic programs, knowing
that these defense funds can be replenished by adding to the next
supplemental bill.” For instance, in May 2006, House Appropriations
Chairman Jerry Lewis (R-Calif.) asked that $6 billion from proposed
defense increases be shifted to erase almost $4 billion worth of
cuts in domestic programs.
The best example of Congress’s propensity to stuff supplemental bills with pork items can be found in the most recent supplemental, signed by the president in June 2007, which contained $24 billion in nonemergency spending. That included $120 million for the shrimp and menhaden fishing industries, $283 million for the Milk Income Loss Contract program, $60 million for salmon fisheries, $100 million for California citrus growers, $50 million for asbestos mitigation at the U.S. Capitol Plant, $1 billion for avian flu, and $1 billion for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
The Real Emergency
These earmarks
obviously should not fall under the rubric of emergency spending,
but then neither should have most of the $120 billion bill. More
than two years after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita devastated the
Gulf Coast, Congress should be able to fund federal relief through
the regular appropriations process. In fact, Congress should be
able to fund most hurricane relief through the regular
appropriations process, given that the hurricane season is a
predictable annual event.
Defense spending may be important, but it does not defy the laws of
economics or the rules of good governance. It is ludicrous to
believe that every increase in the military budget is a good
increase.
Yet despite spending more than ever, and more sloppily than ever, on defense, the White House, the Pentagon, and some big military spenders among Washington’s think tank intelligentsia would like us to believe that the bloated Pentagon budget is frail and in desperate need of more cash. They are more capable of saying this with a straight face because for years now so many costs of war have been hidden in supplemental bills.
The best way to allocate defense resources most effectively is to force a tradeoff between priority items and wasteful boondoggles in the regular defense budgeting process. Yet the exact opposite is happening. Instead of having to justify dumping more billions into controversial old weapons programs such as the Air Force’s F-22 stealth fighter, the Marine Corps’ tilt-wing V-22 Osprey, the Navy’s DDG-1000 stealth destroyer and its Virginia-class attack submarine, the Pentagon can simply move those over into the “emergency” file and put off hard choices.
The Democratic Congress could use the immense cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as leverage for some long-overdue waste cutting at the Pentagon. Alternatively, Congress could decide that $1 trillion for defense is worth every penny and instead make some long-overdue compensatory reductions on the domestic side of the budget.
But if the U.S. is to ever make progress toward budgetary
sanity, the federal government must stop pretending that
war-related costs are somehow separate from the budget of a
department whose mission is to fight and win the nation’s wars.
That won’t happen until Washington stops pretending that
predictable costs are an “emergency.” The emergency at the Pentagon
is the way it is deliberately squandering hundreds of billions of
dollars a year.
Veronique de Rugy is a senior research fellow at
the Mercatus Center at George Mason University.
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Also, (expanding upon an earlier point) Kosovo didn't cost a trillion dollars.
Who benefited? The Pentagon, the political party that ran
Washington in the early 2000s, and their friends.
This Quo Vadis?(tm) moment brought to you by the
Eisenhower administration. "We're ready to desegregate your
schools! Let me just get this hole down to four strokes..."
j/k. I like Ike.
Not to be a total thread hogg, but I found this
fascinating:
Revolution!
I haven't received my print copy of the May issue yet. What
gives?
Maybe my mailman is a closet libertarian.
Also, (expanding upon an earlier point) Kosovo didn't cost a trillion dollars.
Neither did the first Gulf War. In both instances, since we didn't
act like assholes we were able to get western Europe and/or Japan
to underwrite the cost. Neat huh?
"More expensive than Vietnam or WWI" is a bit misleading. As a percentage of GDP I believe the Iraq War is far less than both of those.
I suppose we could've saved some money by fighting the Iraq war with WWI technology, but I'm willing to spend the extra buck on kevlar and repeating rifles.
OK. So, what the war in Iraq is expensive. It is still a drop in the bucket compared to what we have spent, and are still spending, on LBJ's War on Poverty. This war is a much bigger disaster. It's not making our country better. It provides disincentive for being productive, and incentive for reproducing when you can't afford to. It's nuts. How about an exit strategy from that war?
It provides disincentive for being productive, and incentive
for reproducing when you can't afford to. It's nuts. How about an
exit strategy from that war?
Whatever plan we do have, it must include stopping you from
speaking on our behalf.
Man, you sound like such an arrogant douche, it makes me *want* to
redistribute wealth.
Hmm, if we expand the war on terror we get to use more bombs and
destroy more stuff. Then we can replace the bombs and rebuild the
stuff. That will drive GDP up and if we can hide some of these
expenses in another part of the budget then the WOT will be even
smaller as a proportion of GDP.
Cool, huh?
matth,
Since GDP measure the size of the economy, you must be saying that
increased defense spending benefits the economy?
OK. So, what the war in Iraq is expensive. It is still a drop in the bucket compared to what we have spent, and are still spending, on LBJ's War on Poverty.
Careful there! A lot of people are using similar arguments to
*justify* the Iraq invasion and occupation.
Husband: "You paid HOW much for those shoes?"
Wife: "$3000. But that's cheap, because Betty bought some shoes
last week that were $5000!"
Huband: "Oh that's okay then."
The GOP apologists tend to trot out the "percentage of GDP"
nonsense to justify their party's sloven fiscal sense.
As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the Bush portion of the debt is
actually a $5 trillion dollar tax INCREASE (to be paid later) - the
largest in history. Making interest payments on that debt will be a
burden - interest alone will dwarf HUD, welfare and the food stamp
programs combined. In 2006 interest on the federal debt was $226
billion - around 8.5 per cent of all spending. I never hear a GOPer
complain about that line item.
Careful there! A lot of people are using similar arguments
to *justify* the Iraq invasion and occupation.
Why be "careful"? I thought that was the point! (Or at least to
make it seem less unpalatable.)
Shrike is right the "as a percentage of GDP" stuff is a smoke and mirrors shell game to hide fiscal irresponsibility.
Regarding how to measure the costs, I think the best measure is against what you're getting for it. I suppose opinions will vary on that. But if this war is as important as I would think any war should be to be fought, lots of people would be motivated to buy war bonds, right? Heh, actually, Obama will probably have a better chance of financing his occupation of Darfur that way.
I suppose we could've saved some money by fighting the Iraq
war with WWI technology, but I'm willing to spend the extra buck on
kevlar and repeating rifles.
Probably not as that stuff would be incredibly expensive now (more
man-hour intensive in use and maintenance) plus pretty darn
inefficient. Even WWII technology tanks had a 1:13 chance of a
first round hit (WWI tanks 1:50 chance). Numbers are from memory
from the US Army Armor School, 1983.
WWII bombers had to drop ZADS of iron bombs to cover a target, vs.
one modern bomb today. Even in ODS we only used about 10% "smart"
bombs vs. about 90% today.
Oh yea, if you think the animal freaks are nutty now, just imagine
what the video of dead horses would do to that movement!
Not to mention trench warfare sucks big time. I'd much rather be a soldier in World War II--yes even on the Eastern Front--than be stuck in a trench at Ypres for four years straight.
Why not use WWI technology to invade Iraq? It turned out the
only "WMD" Saddam had was some old mustard gas cannisters.
The War on Terror dealt its biggest blow by nineteen guys with
boxcutters.
And Bush says we need a Missile Defense Shield to fight these guys?
When we get nuked it will delivered by a yacht in a major city
harbor.
shrike,
Just like all that money we "wasted" in WWII trying to beat the
Axis powers to the Atomic Bomb that they turned out not to have a
viable program for either?
Just like all the chemical warfare we prepared for that was never
used against us in the same war?
Is that what you are complaining about?
You're equating the Axis Powers with stateless guerrilla
fighters?
My only complaint would be your bad analogy, Guy.
Guy,
I think you're highlighting the difficulty of the comparison
between old wars and modern wars. It's true that WWII bombers had
to drop hundreds of bombs to get one target, but one of our
hyper-accurate JDAMs costs as much as mid-level toyota, and we
often the use the things just to take out a truck or a shed that
costs half as much. Also, just bullets cost upwards of $2/shot
nowadays, whereas they were much cheaper in WWI, and the doughboys
weren't spraying dozens of rounds with each press of the
trigger.
I still say it was better when we got Europe and Japan to write a check for the 1991 war.
Also nevermind comparing a total war to what is essentially the 21st century version of a colonial war. The stakes of losing the second kind are much, much smaller.
Good article on the costs.
For a while I tried to figure out how people who describe
themselves as libertarians could maintain their support for
something that has turned out to be so expensive and destructive.
Eventually, I concluded that they're either stupid, deep in denial,
amoral, or bloodthirsty.
Keep in mind that the costs of some older wars are necessarily understated because those wars were fought with conscripted soldiers. That artificially lowers both the direct cost of salary and the indirect costs of providing the soldiers with good equipment and services. The costs are still paid---by the conscripted soldiers themselves, as lost income and greater danger---but they don't show up in the official budget.
Just like all that money we "wasted" in WWII trying to beat
the Axis powers to the Atomic Bomb that they turned out not to have
a viable program for either?
If the United States had not developed the atomic bomb, would the
atomic bomb currently exist?
I doubt any individual European power would have gotten there in
the post-war era without using work the US already did. So that
leaves it up to the Soviets. Without our work to steal, would they
ever have developed the atomic bomb? It's hard to say whether a
nation with a quantitative conventional weapons advantage would
have developed the bomb on its own.
The pols (collectively, us) are hardly even trying to pretend to
live within our means anymore.
We've been doing this for decades, in increasing amounts. Social
Security, Medicare, padded highway construction, agricultural
subsidies, defense contractors and war costs, huge new
bureaucracies of every kind, and now bailing out failing Wall
Street banks.
Baldfaced budgetary lying like this is just a symptom of some sort
of final blowoff phase.
It's like the guy who has no hope of ever making his credit card
and mortgage payments and so he decides to borrow to the limits and
then throw a big party, and never mind what happens when the
partygoers wake up tomorrow.
When people quit buying our bonds (or decide to sell them in a
panic), what will our dollars be worth then? In that case, what
will we do for a medium of exchange?
When no one will trust us to pay back our debts, we will revert to
a cash and carry economy. What will we do, if simultaneously we
have nothing to use as cash?
There's a great article in National Review that is total bull,
but must be what the Bush Administration was told.
It has a fabulous economic analysis: There is not a 1:1 tradeoff of
butter for guns, but wars stimulate the economy. If we spend money
in Iraq, it's not $1 trillion that was lost, but a job creator. The
housing crunch caused the slowdown, not the other way around. The
idea that spending a trillion of our money to destroy 2 trillion of
there stuff creates jobs on both sides. To doubt that, you must
believe outdated Mercanilist theories, which had to do with
favorably regulating trade to build up surpluses and hoard
gold.
It is particularly amusing to hear that the Iraqis all want to get
along because there are some Shia-Sunni marriages. And this is just
like Germany where there conflict between the Catholics and
Protestants, which were no doubt resolved when there country was
destroyed in WW2; no doubt creating jobs just like we are creating
jobs for Iraqis in rebuilding homes and businesses and burying the
dead.
LINK:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MmUxZjE4YmJhOWQ2OGQ0NTcwMzJkNDYzNzIzNWEwYzA=&w=MA==
If the United States had not developed the atomic bomb,
would the atomic bomb currently exist?
Who knows?
However, definitely not currently existing would be the offspring
of hundreds of thousands of dead US GIs and Japanese, killed in the
invasion of the home islands.
The idea that spending a trillion of our money to destroy 2 trillion of [their] stuff creates jobs on both sides.
I've heard that one before. If they were logically consistent,
they'd advocate bombing the US, as it would mean that all the
"economic development" from destruction would be included in our
GDP.
Are you all forgetting the rising cost of indestructium for armored vehicles? Not to mention that they run on unobtainium? Aircraft are not that big of a problem, since upsidasium can still be found in great supply, but the invisibisium coating is a whole other problem.
I doubt any individual European power would have gotten
there in the post-war era without using work the US already did. So
that leaves it up to the Soviets. Without our work to steal, would
they ever have developed the atomic bomb? It's hard to say whether
a nation with a quantitative conventional weapons advantage would
have developed the bomb on its own.
Prior to the Trinity test, pulp science fiction writers were
already writing about nuclear fission chain reactions and the
atomic bomb. That genie was coming out of the bottle whether the
Manhattan Project occurred or not. Delayed a few years? Sure.
Delayed until 1960? Not a snowball's chance.
JsD,
I guess I could believe pre-1960, maybe. But I can't help but
believe that the British and the USA would have scrapped their
projects and the Soviets would not be very efficient, or fast, at
developing their own, even if all those "fellow traveler"
Physicists went across the Iron Curtain to help.
You guys are destracting me from my Greater Purpose as a cog in the Military Industrial Complex. Now I must remember what I was doing so the endless river of money does not slow.
Delayed a few years? Sure. Delayed until 1960? Not a
snowball's chance.
It's the scale of the industrial work that was necessary for the
bomb that I question.
I think the theoretical, Los-Alamos type work could certainly have
been done.
I just wonder if the Oak Ridge type work would have been done
without the blank check of a world war to make it get done.
And you don't do the Los Alamos work if the Oak Ridge work isn't
getting done. There's no point.
However, definitely not currently existing would be the
offspring of hundreds of thousands of dead US GIs and Japanese,
killed in the invasion of the home islands.
That's true.
After all, science fiction writers can keep writing about space
elevators [for example] all they want.
Writing about it is not the same as writing checks, and without the
checks there ain't gonna be no space elevator [or insert any other
hugely expensive but theoretically possible notion embraced by
science fiction writers].
Fluffy,
If you never POM for the space elevator we will never get it. Who
is the MDEP manager for that one?
"""The idea that spending a trillion of our money to destroy 2
trillion of there stuff creates jobs on both sides."""
WOW think of all the jobs we'll have if we spend 10 Trillion!!!
BP,
I've heard that one before. If they were logically consistent,
they'd advocate bombing the US, as it would mean that all the
"economic development" from destruction would be included in our
GDP.
That is a variant on what many left-leaning to far Leftists say,
basically that wars "stimulate the economy". BTW, when I was
younger and Lefter, I used to say the same thing as if it were
fact. Truth is, wars are a major drag on the economy, as you
obviously know.
"Who knows?
"However, definitely not currently existing would be the offspring
of hundreds of thousands of dead US GIs and Japanese, killed in the
invasion of the home islands."
Indeed.
Also not existing would be all the people that would have been
killed in a conventional WW3 against the Soviet Union which would
have most certainly invaded western europe without the threat of
nuclear weapons being used against it.
Guy, I think it was Henry Hazlitt who first had the "if that's true, why not bomb Cleveland?" argument. In a way, though, it at least goes back to Bastiat.
Truth is, wars are a major drag on the economy, as you
obviously know.
There's certainly the appearance and impression, FWIW, that WWII
lifted us out of the depression. Though it's hard to imagine.
Without having researched it one iota, I figure it's either
coincidence or perhaps the pyschological by-product of mobilization
against a common enemy.
Also, while I'd expect wars to be major drags on the overall
economy, they may be beneficial for certain well placed, well
connected players, and I think you know who I mean, nod-nod,
wink-wink....
The 'broken windows' fallacy is not necessarily one, if you draw
your boundary conditions right.
If I am Amalgimated Glass, Inc. more broken windows help with my
bottom line. For the broader economy however, it is obviously not a
bennefit.
Likewise, if I bomb the crap out of somewhere else but maintain my
own shit relatively unscathed, I bennefit greatly during the
reconstruction.
Kolohe,
Re: "Likewise, if I bomb the crap out of somewhere else but
maintain my own shit relatively unscathed, I bennefit greatly
during the reconstruction."
I assume, the "I" is still "Amalgamated Glass," i.e., someone who
has a vested interested in reconstruction per se? Because the
overall society that does the bombing would probably be better off
trading with the "somewhere else" than bombing it and then paying
Amalgamated Glass to fix all the bombed windows. But if you were
still focusing on "AG," then I agree!
Most Iraqi's now believe that the primary cause of the current
violence is the presence of the American Occupying forces.
If you look at homicide stats going back to 1950 or so, we have
around a quarter million homegrown murderers out there that have
never been caught. We'd have to have a lot of successful terrorists
to match that.
Baked Penguin says:
"I've heard that one before. If they were logically consistent,
they'd advocate bombing the US, as it would mean that all the
"economic development" from destruction would be included in our
GDP."
well Operation northwoods was a plan to bomb this country and it
was approved by the entire Jont Chief of Staff including Almirant
George W. Anderson Jr. (Chief of Navy Operations), General George
H. Decker (Chief of the Land Forces section), General Leyyman L.
Leymnintzer (Chief of the Joint Chief of Staff), General Curtis E.
LeMay (Chief of the Air Force section), General David M. Shoup
(Commander of the Marines)
Leymnintzer went on to work with Paul Wolfowitz in special national
security groups under the Ford Administration.
When we get nuked it will delivered by a yacht in a major city harbor.
It would have to be an unsinkable yacht.
Maybe you should learn why the Soviets invested so much in a
submarine fleet.
And look up why submarines are called submarines.
Veronique de Rugy - who is this clown, must be French with a name like that. Crawl back into your institutional echo chamber with your theory's and numbers. Talk about Hit and Run, come back to me when the US has been attacked again but this time by Iranian made dirty bombs after the Democratic Surrender Monkeys have left Iraq. Sadly these events will probably take place in big cities like LA,Philli, NYC, DC, Boston, filled with unexpecting people and mostly of liberals. Us gun toting, bitter church goers with pray for you. I certainly don't need numbers and charts to identify who the enemy is and what they want to our country.
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