Loder: You can’t turn back the ocean. I don’t think there can be a clampdown. You can’t go back to three channels and two or three national newspapers. It’ll never happen again. There’s too much good journalism online. I love newspapers and magazines, but I think they’re on the way out. And that may not be a bad thing.
Reason: Do you worry about the fragmentation of culture? Some critics worry about what’s lost from the time when we all had to listen to the same stuff or see the same stuff.
Loder: I think one reason that things are so fragmented is that there’s no talent that can unify the world like the Beatles did. The Beatles appealed to everybody, even old people. Nowadays, you can talk about bands where they are always compared to something else. “It’s like nu-metal, but it’s death metal with touches of ska”—that sort of thing.
But as long as you don’t have this monolithic critical culture
defining what things are, you’re going to have to go and seek out
music for yourself. Things will be a little splintered until
something comes around that is unifying. We’re still waiting for
that day, but in the meantime there’s still lots
of good music around. But you have to go look for it. It’s not just
going to be force-fed to you, although God knows people will try to
do that.
Reason: Some of the same technology that allows us to express ourselves more freely also means the state can surveil us more easily and effectively. You’re very outspoken in your opposition to the rise of surveillance cameras in your hometown of New York.
Loder: [New York Mayor] Michael Bloomberg wants more and more surveillance cameras. There are already quite a few, but he’s inspired by London. Britain is so ahead of us in terms of surveillance and the nanny state. Bloomberg was recently in London, talking to his opposite number, Ken Livingstone, and he was thrilling to all the surveillance cameras. There’s one on every corner, on every bus, on every subway. Bloomberg said, and I quote, “We’re way behind. We do have to catch up.”
This is a scary guy. I understand the fear of terrorism, but people don’t seem to fully understand what would happen if this surveillance regime passed into the hands of less benign people. You have to look ahead to that, and no one does. There are 4 million surveillance cameras in Great Britain. We’re heading in that direction.
Reason: Why is that scary?
Loder: I don’t want people watching me.
Reason: That’s a curious statement coming from a guy on MTV.
Loder: Very well. I don’t want the government watching me. There are cameras that issue tickets if you’re going through [yellow] lights. Soon they’ll be able to tell if you’re smoking in your car or using a cell phone. You’ll be getting tickets for this. It’s already happening in Europe. Do we want it to happen here? I don’t think so. You always have to keep an eye on the state.
Reason: How do you feel about other nanny state issues? Smoking bans, trans fat bans, you name it; these are all part of reality in Bloomberg’s New York and, increasingly, other parts of the U.S. and the West.
Loder: Bloomberg most recently started a crackdown on Mister Softee ice cream trucks in the city. Now if you want to sell ice cream, when you pull your truck over to the curb, you’re not allowed to ring your bells. What can you say about this sort of thing? It’s amazing that people don’t rise up with pitchforks.
You can just go on and on and on. Calabasas, California, has become a city where you basically can’t smoke. The whole secondhand smoke thing is ridiculous. I understand people not liking smoke. But there should be places where, if the owner doesn’t mind you smoking in his bar or restaurant, you should be able to do that. What’s wrong with that?
There are really interesting contrasts. I think San Francisco just started its first injection room, where the city will provide people with nurses to shoot people up with heroin. So you’ll have a clean environment to get high in, but it’s still illegal to smoke in bars. I just don’t understand.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time.
|1.29.08 @ 8:59AM|#
Does Loder sit bare-assed on a porcupine?
|1.29.08 @ 9:19AM|#
Good interview. I just wish I could see Loder's name without hearing "Peace Sells" in my head.
Episiarch|1.29.08 @ 9:34AM|#
You have something against Dave Mustaine?
|1.29.08 @ 9:50AM|#
Born in Ocean City, New Jersey, in 1945, Loder is...
Old. That's what he is. The man is old enough to draw social security. Loder just illustrates MTV's place in the establishment.
Do the kids watch MTV anymore? I thought it was all about iPods and MySpace these days.
|1.29.08 @ 10:32AM|#
I just wish I could see Loder's name without hearing "Peace Sells" in my head.
You're a fag, that's what you are.
|1.29.08 @ 10:37AM|#
MTV excluded ron paul from their "bipartisan" debate.
Danny|1.29.08 @ 10:41AM|#
Third paragraph: "optimisticin" is missing a space.
|1.29.08 @ 10:50AM|#
I wish he would have called people out by name when talking about Warner-contract-signing rebel rockers. Messrs. de la Rocha, Morello, and Vedder come to mind pretty quickly.
|1.29.08 @ 11:01AM|#
I don't know if you remember the Time magazine that had Bono on the cover and asked, "Can Bono Save the World?" Well, the answer is no.
That's a money quote.
Kolohe|1.29.08 @ 11:09AM|#
Old. That's what he is. The man is old enough to draw social security. Loder just illustrates MTV's place in the establishment.
To be fair, Loder has always played the part of the token old dude.
Now if, for instance, Martha Quinn was still on, she would definitely be out of place.
Joe Allen|1.29.08 @ 11:13AM|#
Kurt and Nick: two guys in their forties (fifties?) still wearing their High school letterman's jackets and going to the post-game keggers. Pathetic.
highnumber|1.29.08 @ 11:19AM|#
Born in Ocean City, New Jersey, in 1945, Loder is...
Kurt and Nick: two guys in their forties (fifties?)
Joe Allen: poor reading comprehension or poor math skills?
|1.29.08 @ 11:27AM|#
Joe Allen: poor reading comprehension or poor math skills?
C) Both of the above.✔
|1.29.08 @ 11:31AM|#
Old. That's what he is. The man is old enough to draw social security. Loder just illustrates MTV's place in the establishment.
Yep. When you're young you should never listen to old people. They know nothing that's relevant about your life, your art, or your politics.
I didn't swallow that B/S when I was 16.
|1.29.08 @ 11:49AM|#
wow Kurt Loder is older than my dad.
|1.29.08 @ 11:49AM|#
I didn't swallow that B/S when I was 16.
No? Well look what happened to you.
The fact is, young people don't listen to anyone outside their immediate peer group.
If I had paid more attention to my peers I wouldn't be such a dork. But I was too busy reading Rand to give a fuck about Joey Ramone.
That doesn't really matter does it? TMI?
|1.29.08 @ 11:57AM|#
The fact is, young people don't listen to anyone outside their immediate peer group.
You're missing the adjective stupid in that statement. I'll assume it was an editing error.
|1.29.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Government rationing of a limited amount medical care is the elephant in the room for sure, as Loder states. No one will discuss curbing Medicare - which we all have to pay for.
There is no private solution when the ultra high-cost elderly are all on a public payment system at the expense of the taxpayer.
Medicare is out of control - not Social Security. Any actuary will tell you that.
|1.29.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Again, don't trust anything celebrities say. They're not going to save anybody's world. Not even their own, often.
So I shouldn't listen to Bono--but I should listen to Kurt Loder telling me not to listen to Bono? I guess you can trust celebrities, as long as they are B-list celebrities.
Loder seems to have an opinion. I find it boring myself, but if you're 65 years old, you might find it rousing. I have no need for it.
|1.29.08 @ 1:49PM|#
If he really believes old media is dead, why does he still work for them?
Does anyone discuss the dopey naivete of market religionists like Loder? (Sorry, I guess that is the slant of this entire website). Is he really suggesting that the current problems w/health care in America lie entirely at the feet of government regulation, not the HMOs?
Finally, worrying about government censorship and surveillance is uh, so 20th century. Markets can censor. And companies can find it very profitable to surveil--ie collect data--their consumers. Oh, and then they might just sell or share it to governments...
|1.29.08 @ 1:57PM|#
Markets can censor.
Actually, they can't. Only a state can censor. Individuals are free to remove or block messages from property they own, but cannot do so on property they don't own, and cannot punish an individual for propagating a message they disagree with (absent some contractual relationship with the individual allowing such punishment) and so cannot comprehensively bar the distribution of a message.
Publius|1.29.08 @ 2:05PM|#
I never knew Kurt Loder was so independent in thought, but I am thankful for it. Nor did I realize he was over 60. Wow, that guy looks pretty good. But seriously, where are the other celebrity voices speaking out against the police state and government tyranny?
Where are the individuals in this country?
|1.29.08 @ 3:59PM|#
He didn't say you shouldn't listen, he said you shouldn't trust. In other words, do your own research and come to your own conclusions. You know, free thought, reasoning, analysis, that sort of thing. With a name like parse, I'd have thought you would know how to, well, parse a sentence.
Steve Verdon|1.29.08 @ 5:25PM|#
If he really believes old media is dead, why does he still work for them?
Two things.
1. A paycheck.
2. He didn't say it was dead, but that its outlook was grim.
The idea here is that nothing is static or permanent. Hell, on the front page there is a link to a video about how markets share many similarities with evolutionary theory. So even if "old/big media" "dies out" it will be replaced by something. Evolutionary theory tells you this, economics tells you this. Not a hard lesson to grasp. Why so many actually have a hard time with it, I don't know.
Does anyone discuss the dopey naivete of market religionists like Loder? (Sorry, I guess that is the slant of this entire website). Is he really suggesting that the current problems w/health care in America lie entirely at the feet of government regulation, not the HMOs?
HMOs were a response to rising costs. Those rising costs are at least due in part to Medicare--i.e. subsidizing health care for some of the largest users of health care, and also from how health care benefits get preferential tax treatment--i.e. subsidized. A basic result of economics is that when you subsidize something you get more of it. Again, pretty simple to understand, why some people have a hard time with this, I don't know.
Finally, worrying about government censorship and surveillance is uh, so 20th century. Markets can censor. And companies can find it very profitable to surveil--ie collect data--their consumers.
So don't be their consumer. However, try not paying your taxes. The government will hunt you down, confiscate your property and then confine you. Not too many firms can do that.
Oh and censoring is different that surveiling someone. So your whole point is rather...well confused.
My only beef is with Loder is that markets are also a rationing mechanism. This is something many people on the Left don't seem to grasp. They like the idea of rationing, they just don't want the price system to do it. The idea that somebody who is less benign than their "Benevolent Social Dictator" could come to power and could make a really ugly mess of things just doesn't seem to factor into their calculus.
Steve Verdon|1.29.08 @ 5:29PM|#
They are too busy supporting issues and causes where we will have less options and/or freedoms. Like global warming. They want to control what kind of car you drive, what kind of energy you use in your house, what appliances you buy, etc. Nevermind that the most obvious and effective method of reducing consumption of say gasoline is to put a (pigouvian) tax on it.
As Loder said, don't trust celebrities, especially on issues that require reason, logic and evidence. We pay actors, singers, musicians, etc. to be emotional, not logical and fact based.
Martha Quinn\'s secret admirer|1.29.08 @ 6:57PM|#
Now if, for instance, Martha Quinn was still on,
Oh my, talk about bringing back memories! I had the biggest crush on her when I was 13 and we finally got cable (about '83). Turns out she still looks pretty damn good even at 48. Hard to imagine that was 25 years ago already...
Joe Allen|1.30.08 @ 7:53PM|#
Why yes, my reading and math skills have deteriorated, but I quit trying to pretent I'm cool years ago, unlike Mr. Loder and Mr. Gillespie.
And yes, Martha Quinn is still quite a hottie.
Faze|2.1.08 @ 7:01PM|#
Whoa -- On the Mr. Softee tuck ban in New York: the very good Mr. Loder thinks this is nanny stateism, but if you've ever had one of those suckers park in front of your building, playing its tinny theme song at ghetto-blasting volume from 11 p.m. to 3 a.m., you would swear to vote for Hillary Clinton if she promised to draw and quarter the driver in the public square. Mr. Softee trucks are an urban nightmare, and a major quality of life issue.
|2.2.08 @ 1:06PM|#
For an MTV/Rolling Stone guy, Loder makes surprisingly uninformed comments about the Beatles -- and it's typical baby boomer blind-eyed crap. He says that even old people liked the Beatles -- certainly true NOW, but not an accurate generalization for the early and mid- sixties -- and also seems to think they derived their music out of thin air, rather that borrowing from other sources as all musicians do. At their inception, the Beatles were influenced by skiffle and other musical forms. Really, this picture of seniors in 1969-era old folks homes holding hands with teenagers and singing "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" or perhaps "Helter Skelter" is a romantic one, to be sure, but Loder has got to be kidding if he thinks the Beatles somehow united the world. Culture is more fragmented today because we have more choices, not because we have crappier musicians. Loder betrays his geezer-ism with his comments.
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