Shikha Dalmia from the July 2006 issue
(Page 3 of 6)
Reason: That’s what happens in a normal criminal investigation. What do you think of President Bush using the war on terrorism as a pretext to issue an executive order for wiretap surveillance without going to the FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] court to obtain a warrant?
Kozinski: That’s a legal issue, and when I get the case I’ll tell you.
Reason: Does your gut instinct say they went too far or that this was a legitimate use of the president’s powers for national security?
Kozinski: I can afford to have instincts about medicine because I don’t practice medicine, but I can’t afford to have instincts about law. When it comes to law, I have to follow the law. I don’t know enough about the case. But I’m not prepared to say offhand that it’s illegal. Presumably the president is doing it for a legitimate purpose. I don’t think he’s doing it because he’s interested in your sex life.
Reason: He might not be, but some future president might. Where do you draw the line?
Kozinski: It depends on the body count, doesn’t it? Fifty million dead? A hundred million dead? Or are you talking about destroying America as we know it? Destroying our industrial base or covering our fields with radioactive waste so we can’t grow any food for the next three millennia? I’d be willing to give up some privacy to prevent those things.
Reason: Are there any checks on executive authority in time of war? By ordering surveillance of phone conversations through an executive order, the president is effectively saying that he does not want to abide by the Fourth Amendment’s restrictions on warrantless searches and seizures. He does not even want to go to a rubber-stamp court like the FISA court to obtain permission. Is that going too far or not?
Kozinski: A rubber-stamp court? How do you know?
Reason: The FISA court certainly has a reputation of approving virtually all search warrant or surveillance requests from the government.
Kozinski: Possibly because the government is very careful to go to the court only when it’s absolutely necessary. You may be right, but I haven’t seen any evidence that the court is a rubber-stamp body. People want to believe that, but I don’t think it’s an informed view by anybody who’s actually looked at what the court does.
Reason: You are the staunchest defender of free speech on the 9th Circuit court, arguing that the publication of the names and information about doctors targeted for assassination by abortionists is not incitement to violence and worthy of First Amendment protections. Do you recognize any limits to free speech?
Kozinski: I believe that the First and the Second Amendments are the ultimate barriers against totalitarianism. Of course, there are limits, but they are very broad. It all varies from case to case—what the body count is. I am not categorically always on the side of free speech or privacy or anything else. It’s possible to hurt people with speech through libel, defamation, slander, or blackmail. But in general, I think the remedy in these cases is more speech. I’m very skeptical of the government coming in and prohibiting or punishing speech.
Reason: Do you see any big threats to free speech out there today?
Kozinski: There are always threats to free speech. Government doesn’t like to be criticized. Owners of copyrights and other intellectual property rights are very grabby. They think they own everything, or they think they invented everything. And the big problem is drawing the line between what’s protected by copyright and what’s in the public domain.
Nobody writes anything from scratch. We all build on the past from a shared public domain of ideas. We use copyrighted ideas to communicate with each other. For instance, when you say someone has a Barbie personality, it describes something without having to go into a thousand details. But Mattel, the inventor of Barbie, hates it. People who own those trademarks and copyrights want to control the way people communicate, and they have the ear of Congress right now. Congress just extended copyright terms again [in 1998].
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