But in media, it's less than that. If all we were doing is measuring concentration in the traditional way, we all know how to do that. I could decide whether Clear Channel is too big on concentration and anti-competitive grounds, but the argument in the country is not that. Something far short of that should be a "no" on diversity grounds, which is a compelling objective.
Reason: Do you think there's any principled way to determine the right levels of diversity and localism?
Powell: At the end of the day you have to do something that you're comfortable with, but you have to accept a big margin of error. What are you trying to achieve with localism? Issues relevant to their community and not just issues relevant to the nation and the world are part and parcel of what's covered by properties that are licensed in the public interest.
I can pull public records and look at programming choices and what percentage of local news is on vs. five years ago, and I can measure it. We did all of this in the media ownership proceeding, and the reason I am a little saddened by what happened is that the work in there is phenomenal. We had data that never existed before. We found things to measure that aren't antitrust mathematical but are indicative of a good story, and things that were indicative of a bad story.
Reason: What do you think accounted for the firestorm over the ownership rules?
Powell: It's because this is an extraordinarily media-intense culture. Getting your voice heard is a source of both pleasure and aggravation.
The debate is more of a stalking horse for a general anxiety about media's role in our daily lives than it is about the rules. It became symbolic in an era where there was deep anxiety about globalization, a deep anxiety about corporate America. And the rise of things like Fox, which is the first network with a more conservative element in it. There's a whole 'nother constituency that thinks that's the problem.
Reason: If you had to do it over again, what would you have done differently?
Powell: There are a lot of tactical things I would do differently. We got hit with a perfect storm. Look at some of the groups who are most effectively mobilized against us. We've never heard of them here at the FCC. I don't know who Code Pink and MoveOn.org are. In many ways, the anti-war movement suddenly came to the FCC. And that was a hard thing to have seen in advance.
I'm not so sure I would have put everything together, which I think is the right answer from a legal, technical approach. We created this enormous gravitational pull because all the broadcast rules were together, as opposed to past commissions that did a rule here and next year did a rule there. Maybe that's the better way to do it.
Reason: When low-power FM came up for vote in 2000, you dissented in part, rejecting the arguments that the FCC does not "pick winners and losers" and pointing out that "we regularly consider the economic impacts of our actions on licensees." Do you think the FCC should be picking winners and losers?
Powell: No. Not at all.
Reason: Well, you voted against the proposal.
Powell: The short answer is, "No, of course we shouldn't, and nobody will say we should." There's no question that every day here I have lobbyists that come in this room paid lots of money to make me pick a winner. They make an argument about the public policy benefit of doing it their way, but at the end of the day, sometimes it's just, "We want you to be on our side."
A public policy official needs to know how to be disciplined and objective about the choices they are making, but I pick winners and losers by coincidence, not by consciousness.
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