The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.
The London-based Office of Health Economics, after a careful international study, found that while "one reason often given for the high numbers of murders and manslaughters in the United States is the easy availability of firearms...the strong correlation with racial and socio-economic variables suggests that the underlying determinants of the homicide rate are related to particular cultural factors."
Cultural differences and more-permissive legal standards notwithstanding, the English rate of violent crime has been soaring since 1991. Over the same period, America's has been falling dramatically. In 1999 The Boston Globe reported that the American murder rate, which had fluctuated by about 20 percent between 1974 and 1991, was "in startling free-fall." We have had nine consecutive years of sharply declining violent crime. As a result the English and American murder rates are converging. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and the latest study puts it at 3.5 times.
Preliminary figures for the U.S. this year show an increase, although of less than 1 percent, in the overall number of violent crimes, with homicide increases in certain cities, which criminologists attribute to gang violence, the poor economy, and the release from prison of many offenders. Yet Americans still enjoy a substantially lower rate of violent crime than England, without the "restraint on personal liberty" English governments have seen as necessary. Rather than permit individuals more scope to defend themselves, Prime Minister Tony Blair's government plans to combat crime by extending those "restraints on personal liberty": removing the prohibition against double jeopardy so people can be tried twice for the same crime, making hearsay evidence admissible in court, and letting jurors know of a suspect's previous crimes.
This is a cautionary tale. America's founders, like their English forebears, regarded personal security as first of the three primary rights of mankind. That was the main reason for including a right for individuals to be armed in the U.S. Constitution. Not everyone needs to avail himself or herself of that right. It is a dangerous right. But leaving personal protection to the police is also dangerous.
The English government has effectively abolished the right of Englishmen, confirmed in their 1689 Bill of Rights, to "have arms for their defence," insisting upon a monopoly of force it can succeed in imposing only on law-abiding citizens. It has come perilously close to depriving its people of the ability to protect themselves at all, and the result is a more, not less, dangerous society. Despite the English tendency to decry America's "vigilante values," English policy makers would do well to consider a return to these crucial common law values, which stood them so well in the past.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time.
|10.22.09 @ 6:16PM|#
Good God! I can not even imagine living under those circumstances. The idea that you can not even protect yourself because the “Government” will. What a joke! I always remember the very wise ole refrain “When seconds count the police are minutes away”. Gun control is not about controlling crime it’s about controlling “The People”! I just wonder how long it will be before the English people have had enough. What will it finally take?
In the end though, they got what they deserve. They let the “Government” run them instead of them running the “Government”!!! I will never give up my God given right to self defense!!!
Pingback| 12.28.09 @ 9:08PM
Gun ban results in more gun crime in UK. - World War II Zone Forums links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 1.2.10 @ 4:42PM
» Security & Liberty: a thought experiment links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
|1.17.10 @ 1:10AM|#
I just realized this was written in 2002. I wonder what the gun crime rate is now. Any government that tells you that you have no right to self defense is not looking after your best interest. Self defense is the most basic right anyone has. No government or police can protect you. I can't believe you all allow this to continue. I keep a gun at home for self defense and have a license to carry it concealed any where I go. And I do. If I am attacked then at least I have a chance to stay alive. By the time the police arrive they can either arrange for my body to be picked up or take a statement from me. I choose the later. Britons let a right be taken from them and now it will be much harder to get it back. But you should try.
|1.17.10 @ 1:10AM|#
I just realized this was written in 2002. I wonder what the gun crime rate is now. Any government that tells you that you have no right to self defense is not looking after your best interest. Self defense is the most basic right anyone has. No government or police can protect you. I can't believe you all allow this to continue. I keep a gun at home for self defense and have a license to carry it concealed any where I go. And I do. If I am attacked then at least I have a chance to stay alive. By the time the police arrive they can either arrange for my body to be picked up or take a statement from me. I choose the later. Britons let a right be taken from them and now it will be much harder to get it back. But you should try.
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Gun Control’s Twisted Outcome | Snipsly links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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This really sounds like a bad idea - Nebraska Fish and Game Association links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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gun grabbers - Page 9 - Grasscity.com Forums links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Brady Shows Its Colors links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
David M|4.16.10 @ 6:12PM|#
I don't see any balance in this article at all. I live in the north of the UK and and have lived in some of the poorer areas of Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds for years and run city centre late night bars. I am now 30 years old and, outside of TV and movies, I have NEVER seen a gun, ever. It's often the case that stats are used to try and paint a picture of 'the way things are' for some lobby groups benefit but it is rarely the reality for the majority of a population.
I think it says something that the fear of crime is more applicable that the facts twisted to support someone’s objective. I do not fear being attacked when I leave my home, I feel safe. I secure my home well and as such do not live in fear of being burgled or attacked in my home, though I understand it may happen. I understand that criminals carry guns, and I understand that specially trained police officers in the UK carry guns to deal with them. I understand that crime usually stems from social injustices such as severe poverty, poor education, high unemployment as well as drug addiction etc. This is why I find bizarre is that this articles tries to use the banning of guns in the UK to explain rising crimes in burglaries, muggings and robberies etc – they have not risen because of a lack of handguns!
Trust mugger, a burglar or any other criminal in the UK would no more have expected to find a homeowner with a gun thirty years ago than they would do now. Just try to understand that the reason so many American's find giving up their guns as unthinkable is the same reason why so many British people find owning guns unthinkable. We just have different cultures, so try not to use rising crime stats in a country with tight gun controls to justify owning guns in your own country – be smarter!
Keith|8.23.10 @ 11:06AM|#
This article is indeed very one-sided and wrought with weak inductive reasoning. We would expect crime rates to be higher in Britain than the US given their significantly higher population density. The fact that they are even comparable is an indictment of US law enforcement and possibly its lack of gun control.
Additionally, most US cities have seen the same increase in crime that ones in the UK have in recent years, so it's hard to see how that would be related to gun control policies. As David sugggests, the increase is more likely due to economic factors.
|6.16.11 @ 6:45PM|#
I see your point Keith, though I would like to submit the idea that as a younger nation, we Americans do also have a different culture than our friends across the pond. I have always greatly respected European culture and wish some of that discipline and self restraint were present in our own nation. People can be unbearably petty and completely overreact to perceived slights...add to that a massive gang culture in every city of appreciable size (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Denver...this list goes on) based on "being a badass" and you have a laundry list of violent, intolerant people who take advantage of a nation's right, but would just as soon bludgeon, thrash, stab, run over, immolate, strangle, defenestrate or any other method of violent behaivor. I am of the serious conviction that our gang problem is the more severe, and as most firearms related crimes are committed with cheaply manufactured guns as purchased by gangs, that would be the first and best place to go about setting our crime rates to being much lower than yours :)
|6.16.11 @ 6:51PM|#
Indeed sir, but you see violent crimes as being a result of muggers, burglars and ne'er do wells. I might present the idea of the enormous gang culture that is unfortunately present in this nation. Almost every major gang has a presence in each major city in the United States, MS-13, Hells Angels, Latin Kings, Crips, Bloods, and the list goes on. Many of these gangs are not opposed to using violence as a first resort, and a number of them require a violent act as an initiation rite before one can "make their bones", then of course, these lovely individuals supply the drug users you speak of, who also commit crimes. It is possibly the worst problem this country faces...I would suggest to all lawmakers that the second amendment be left alone, as these gangsters also do stockpile the items they steal from the police and military...if not, a number of them procure weaponry from their south american interests (who purchase them directly from the United States on a scale that was greater than this own nations sale of weapons to the Iraqi government)
Pingback| 4.18.10 @ 9:38AM
Arizona to allow concealed weapons without permit - ValueMD Medical Schools Forum links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
|5.6.10 @ 12:25AM|#
David, with all due respect (because you don't sound like a troll, just more like you're honestly expressing your opinion), when the gun ban was passed you would have been 17. You haven't seen a gun because you haven't been mugged yet or had your home broken into, and when they were legal you were younger and just hadn't been around that much. You do make a good point about not taking one country's statistics and applying it to another country. But here in the US, the states that have loosened up their gun bans have seen their violent crime drop. Property crime goes up at the same time, but murders and rapes and hold-ups go down. There's just too much evidence for the correlation. The reason is that enough criminals think twice because they know the victim might be armed.
Joe Bayer|9.3.10 @ 8:59PM|#
We (Americans) are not only armed to protect ourselves from criminals, we are armed to protect ourselves from government. In fact, the second amendment has far more to do with prevent the government from assuming too much power than it has to do with hunting or home defense.
|9.11.10 @ 2:03AM|#
Excellent report! This should be brought to the attention of those large banks and "money lords" who threaten to move their firms to the UK.
Gratefully Yours, Terry Ijams Sr.
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|1.8.11 @ 9:00PM|#
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|1.8.11 @ 9:04PM|#
And yes. Christianity will win in the end. It has been written. Let the Muslims have their fun. They don't have much more time.
|1.10.11 @ 7:27AM|#
What a terrible, inaccurate, false article. Do some real fact checking before you rant on about nonsense like this!
The UK has some of the lowest gun homocide rates in the world!
Here are the real facts: "The overall homicide rates per 100,000 (regardless of weapon type) reported by the United Nations for 1999 were 4.55 for the U.S. and 1.45 in England and Wales. The homicide rate in England and Wales at the end of the 1990s was below the EU average, but the rates in Northern Ireland and Scotland were above the EU average."
It should be worth it to note that Northern Ireland and Scotland have very loose gun ownership laws, much like the US, while England and Wales have very strict gun control rules short of a total ban!
Now, don't you feel like a fool rambling on for 4 pages with no real facts to back you up?
M. Havens|1.11.11 @ 1:55PM|#
Etch, the article wasn't about "gun homicide" rate, it was about violent crime. Read the article much more carefully and you will understand this. Also note the differences as to how each country records its crime rates. The UK pads theirs to appear much lower.
Ultimately, the difference lies in the relationship of the citizenry to the government. Americans view their government as a servant, you view yours as your master.
|2.7.11 @ 11:05PM|#
Yes, because it's much more important to protect property than to protect a life. I also assume you're quicker on the draw than Lucky Luke. I assume robbers with a gun walk up to you and tell you that they want to rob you, giving you ample time to draw your gun and shoot them. Or, maybe it's rather that someone trying to rob you would come out of a shadowy corner with a drawn gun. Now draw your own gun without dying miserably. (Plus, you can insure your property, and while you can also insure your life, once you're dead you won't get it back. Unlike a mobile phone.)
So, actually, I do think it's better to get my phone stolen than to be shot because I too had a gun.
Also, how can you get to the conclusion that people in the UK/Europe/anywhere outside the US view their government as the masters and they themselves as slaves. Did you notice that we live in something called "Democracy"?
On a sidenote, I believe corporations should be allowed to keep armed forces. Then they're finally able to "kill the competition". Actually, a corporation in the US has the same rights as any citizen, so, in fact, it should already be allowed.
|6.16.11 @ 6:07PM|#
Well the American government does possess a number of companies (freight for one), so technically, the do have their own armed forces...The padding of statistics does make sense, but perhaps not to the extent the author presumes (I'm assuming a cultural gap accounts for a good deal of it and not the presence nor lack of firearms)...and also there is no indication that the young girl even did attempt to ward off her assailant who murdered her...crime is common, logic is rare (he may very well have shot her because he panicked)though the attempt to badger a man in a debate is most certainly not a logical way to prove your point sir. I'm an American, and I don't carry a gun, i'd run from an assailant(probably even if I had one), but I most certainly would not rely on the police to keep me safe. I forget who it was who stated it, but the responsibility of the police is not to protect citizens, it is to preserve order, so you may take that for what it is worth...
Al Metcalf|12.18.11 @ 7:54PM|#
HMMM, Your 'facts" don't check out at Wales own statistical site. After the ban, homicide with guns doubled. You can check here: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firea.....-and-wales
You have to NUMBER OF GUN HOMICIDES and then look at RATES PER THOUSAND, not the actual number.
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Kyle|8.10.11 @ 10:19AM|#
The UK riots over the last few days have shown that UK "society" and its police force are completely impotent to protect innocent civilians from thugs. The photos and videos make the place look like a third-world country with no law and order.
But by all means, keep telling yourselves that there must be some societal reason for these "young people" to riot, so it's really society's fault somehow. Because surely, if you keep turning the other cheek, and giving them more freebies and benefits, they will stop behaving badly! Right?
I am thankful that my community holds criminals responsible for their acts, not the crime victims who attempt to stop them. We do not find it necessary to protect criminals from their victims.
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|10.10.11 @ 4:39PM|#
Ridiculous article. Maybe the author should have looked into the increase of povety and other socio-economic factors related to rise of violent crime.
Just for your information. No European is allowed to carry a gun. That means if at all we could only use them inside our homes. And well, maybe European burglars are just more clever than American burglars but being suprised by a thief in your own home is just not very common here.
You also ignore that violent crime can be anything from actual murder to a little handbag-flying dispute with and old lady.
Homicide and rape rates in Europe, you know, the really nasty stuff that actually shows a sever disregard for other ppl's freedom, dignity and life, are lower, in many cases many times lower than in the US. Actually even violent crime rates overall are lower in many countries.
So yes, we are really sorry that we kind of think that getting killed is a bit worse than getting threatened or mugged or whatever. I don't even want to know how many ppl get killed each year in the US because both the criminal and the victim carried guns and used them with one or both getting seriously injured or even killed while it would have been a (yes, annoying, illegal and probably shocking) propety crime with no injuries/deaths in Europe.
|12.8.11 @ 3:18PM|#
Oh good Lord, when did you all turn into pussies? You can only be so naive for as long, before criminals step in and reap the benefits from assaulting a numb population.
|10.13.11 @ 8:10AM|#
Dear Anonymous,
Having a Nice Daydream? Violent crime has always been lower in Britain when compared to the USA, before any gun regulation, during the century of increasingly restrictive (classified until 1989) gun laws and even now with the "gold standard" of gun control. Therefore a somewhat more reasonable comparison might be with Britain’s European neighbours. It was reported in 2009 that the UK 'has worst violent crime rate in Europe'. And there has not been a marked decrease in UK violent crime since. In fact given the recent riots the opposite might be argued. The shocking reality, in your eyes no doubt, is that in spite of increased private gun ownership and increased concealed carry of handguns, in that oh so violent country the USA, its violent crime rate has been trending downward since 1994. The difference in violent crime rates between Britain and the USA is less than it used to be in spite of increased private gun ownership and increased concealed carry of handguns. How can that be? Could your core assumption, ‘less guns, less crime’ be wrong?
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ZCT|1.26.12 @ 6:10PM|#
The problem I have with this clearly biased article is that it rather conveniently brushes that pesky issue of homicide under the rug, and hopes the reader won't notice.
According to the data, which you can find in just about any unbiased source, you are FIVE TIMES more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK. And this has been true for every year that the gun ban has been in effect.
So while it may seem like Britain is awash with crime, and it may be, crimes that stop at assault, robbery, mugging etc, tend to just stop right there. Here in the US, it's far more likely that a crime that begins as say a mugging, ends in a homicide. At that point, the authorities focus far less on the mugging aspect (and in fact probably don't even report it as such), and far more on the more serious homicide charge.
It should also be noted that America's policy on jail is very hard core. We are number one in the world in locking people up. So if you keep locking up anyone who has even a whiff of guilt about them, that will have a positive effect on crime rates. So who's to say that the whole aggressive jailing campaign isn't more effective at reducing crime than letting everyone carry a gun like we were cowboys in a western?
Also who's to say that implementing a policy exactly like Britain has would create exactly the same outcome in the US?
In any case, who's taking your guns anyway? I've not seen any laws passed recently that do anything to curtail gun ownership. In fact in some states the laws have actually been relaxed, like in Texas for example where Rick Perry just made gun rights even stronger.
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