Being inside there during the siege was a very cleansing period of time. I didn’t want to go out to Babylon, I wanted to stay with the truth. It was my birthday, February 13, just a week or two before the raid, I was sitting in a room with David Koresh and Steve Schneider and we were talking about the people who lived across the street. Steve was worried. He wanted to show our hand and talk to them. David said, I’m going to work with these people. I said, "David, I don’t care what happens, I don’t care if we all die or we all go to jail, I just want to be with the group, I don’t want to be left alone." He just looked at me, he stared me down for about 30 seconds and didn’t say anything. I knew right then I was going to survive.
A lot of people there believed that it would be a terrible thing to have to face the world with the truth we had because people wouldn’t understand. They believed it was impossible. Who wants to live their life being shunned? Every single apostle was killed for what they believed in. The prophets as well. They were all killed for what they believed in and were hated in their society. It wasn’t until generations after their death were they brought up to be good people that all Christians and Jews believed in.
Reason: The missing door and some of the other details (e.g., the blank videotape of the raid, the insistence that no incendiary rounds were fired by the FBI) raise such obvious questions that they seem to count against the idea of a carefully orchestrated cover-up. Was the government's behavior as incompetent and haphazard as it looks? How do you account for the bungling?
Thibodeau: I don’t know. I think that they were perfectly brilliant in orchestrating the total destruction of the building. No matter how you cut it -- no matter who was responsible for the fire -- the government and the FBI benefited greatly from that building burning to the ground. It hid a lot of the evidence. It was great for them. I am sure that most of the agents were torn up about the kids dying, as I am, and a lot of people in America are. But nonetheless the destruction of the evidence definitely benefited the government.
It’s like they followed the guidebook for what wouldn’t work. And I think they are smarter than that. I don’t know why they wouldn’t listen to their psychologists or why they wouldn’t listen to their undercover agent, or why they wouldn’t listen to their own negotiators. There was no one that said, "Stop. We need to back off and think about this. There are kids here. What we are doing is wrong." And that’s very strange. I think these people should understand. They have the best psychologists. They should know how a group of people is going to react to what they are doing, and yet they didn’t.
Reason: Did you see any church members ever start a fire? Was there ever any talk among your friends and community members about burning the place down if it came to that?
Thibodeau: No. Never. Not in the areas I was in. I can’t say a couple of people in Koresh’s inner circle didn’t take on that role.
Reason: How many people were in Koresh’s inner circle?
Thibodeau: I don’t know. Everybody was part of the body. But there were some people who would have done anything for Koresh. I don’t know who would have done it. But I have to acknowledge that it may have happened. But I don’ t think it did.
I think they lied about the pyrotechnic devices for six years for a reason. Their position was strong, "There were no pyrotechnic devices fired into that building." It was like Clinton, "I did not have sex with that woman."
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"I think [Janet Reno] was lied to and used as a pawn. I don’t think she lied outright." |
Reason: Do you think Janet Reno has lied or was just lied to about Waco?
Thibodeau: I think she was lied to and used as a pawn. I don’t think she lied outright.
Reason: What charges about the government's actions at Waco do you consider to be untrue or unproven?
Thibodeau: There’s no flame-throwing tank. Linda Thompson did a documentary called Waco: The Big Lie. She cut video to make it look like a flame came from the tank. It’s an optical illusion, a damn good optical illusion, but one nevertheless.
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