What Happened at Waco?

An exclusive interview with Waco survivor David Thibodeau, co-author of A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story

Michael W. Lynch | October 4, 1999

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Reason: During the siege, did you ever have agreement with the FBI or government to come out?

Thibodeau: The first one was in the first three days. This is where David lost a lot of credibility. Frankly I can understand. We were set to come out and David said, "God has told me to wait." So we didn’t come out. I had mixed feelings on that.

I felt it was good because frankly I wasn’t too anxious to get out and get processed and see how they were going to cover up the information and send us off to jail. I didn’t want to go out into that world at this point in my life. At the same time, I felt that we would never be able to effect the American public after that. David had lost a lot of credibility after that. I did believe that it was part of a plan and that we were there for a purpose. We all felt that this was our home, that we were attacked unjustly, and that we had the right to defend it.

Reason: Did you ever have another plan to come out?

Thibodeau: Absolutely. We established a plan with attorneys after James Tabor and Phil Arnold, both theologians, said that David’s 58-minute tape wasn’t just Bible-babble. What he was saying was scriptural. Once David heard this he was elated. He said there are people out there who want to hear my message. We should write it down. So he made an agreement with the attorneys that he would complete his Seven Seals manuscript and then he would come out.

"David [Koresh] said, 'What are you people going to do when the tanks are surrounding this building? When there are hundreds of agents out there. When the people of Babylon come to get us? What are you going to do then? Are you going to believe this truth?' I said, 'David, this is America, they’re not going to bring tanks on this property. I don’t care what happens. They’re not going to bring tanks out here.'"

Reason: Do you think that the government intended that no one would survive the April 19th attack?

Thibodeau: I don’t know. After seeing Rules of Engagement, I believe that. It was hard for me to believe that until I saw the film. It makes sense to me now because the nine people who survived came out of the front and side of the building. No one came out of the back and lived to tell about it. You got Jimmy Riddle back there who was ripped in half by what I think was a tank. You should see the autopsy report on him. Seventeen people were autopsied with bullet wounds in their heads. They say it was a mass suicide.

Reason: What’s the explanation for this?

Thibodeau: That people were shot at short range and that they killed themselves.

Reason: That’s the government’s explanation. What’s your explanation?

Thibodeau: My explanation is that they exited the back of the building and were being shot down.

Reason: Did anyone ever talk to you about a suicide pact?

Thibodeau: No. You have to understand that it was scriptural. Koresh believed and taught that if you take you life, you don’t go through God’s plan for you in this world and therefore you have no right to salvation. He also taught not to kill your leader. He was a little paranoid. There were people inside who didn’t like his message. So he taught, on a few occasions, the lesson of King Saul.

Basically the Philistines wounded King Saul and they were going to capture and torture him, and he said to a kid, "Fall on me with your sword, may I not be delivered over to the hands of the Philistines." When King David found out, he killed the kid for killing the king. David Koresh taught this so that people wouldn’t kill him.