What Happened at Waco?

An exclusive interview with Waco survivor David Thibodeau, co-author of A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story

Michael W. Lynch | October 4, 1999

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"It’s like [the federal agents] followed the guidebook for what wouldn’t work."

Reason: What do you think happened at the front door? What was your experience?

Thibodeau: I was in the cafeteria area. When I started to hear the helicopters, David came downstairs. There were a lot of people with him. David said this, and I will never forget this, "They’re coming, they are on their way. Don’t anybody do anything stupid. We want to talk to them. We want to work it out. That’s what we are all about here." He ran down the hallway to meet the ATF. I spoke to several people who were at the front door, and they all told me the same thing. They said, "David held the door in his hand, he held his hand out, and said, ‘Hold on, there’s women and children here, let’s talk about this, let’s work this out.’" They said the door went back in his hand from the velocity of the bullets hitting it. And he slammed the door and fell back and all these bullets started coming into the foyer. And that’s when people started firing back.

There’s another thing. The four agents that died didn’t die until 20 minutes into the gun battle. If we were planning an ambush, they never would have gotten out of those cattle trailers.

There are two major indications that the FBI isn’t being truthful about who fired first. The one of course is the metal door. One of the two attorneys who came inside the compound during the siege was a Marshall judge in the Marines. He said that all the bullet holes were coming from the outside in, not the inside out. One of the doors was entered as evidence in the trial, but the important door was not. When the defense attorneys asked about the other door, the government said it must have disintegrated, yet the other door was intact. The other indication that they were not being truthful is that they were filming us. They had video cameras at the house. When the FBI said they wanted videotapes at the beginning of the raid, the ATF said, "We don’t have any because all of our cameras malfunctioned." It’s a cover up. It’s so disgusting.

Reason: What about the helicopters?

Thibodeau: Three eyewitnesses that I spoke to all saw the helicopters firing.

Reason: What’s the government’s explanation?

Thibodeau: That they weren’t firing. What the government says is that the helicopters have no mounted guns. So technically it wasn’t the helicopters but it could have been the agents on board who were armed.

Reason: Why would they be so reckless?

Thibodeau: I don’t know. But they did fire. I saw the evidence. I got on my knees and looked at a bullet hole trajectory in a plastic tank and in that plastic tank I could see where it was fired from.

Reason: How can you tell?

Thibodeau: It was really interesting. It went into a side of the tank and came out of another point in front.

Reason: So it came out lower?

Thibodeau: Yes, that’s correct. I got on my knees and looked. It lined up perfectly. I was next to Winston Blake’s bed, the man who died with French Toast in his mouth.