Risky Journalism

ABC's John Stossel bucks a fearful establishment.

Jacob Sullum from the April 1997 issue

(Page 6 of 6)

Stossel: On 20/20, it's assumed that the chats with Hugh [Downs] and Barbara [Walters] are commentary. But on "Are We Scaring Ourselves to Death?," for example, when I made the argument that regulation, by increasing poverty, was killing people, they made me superimpose the word commentary.

Reason: Can you give some examples of stories people have pitched to you that you refused to do?

Stossel: Sure. Dozens. They are always trying to get me to do stories on airline safety -- the most dangerous airport; where you should sit on the plane so you can get out more quickly if it fills with smoke; how you are supposed to count the seats to the exit row so if it's filled with smoke you can get out -- and I refuse, because I just think the more we make people frightened about flying, the more people will drive, and that's more dangerous, so we're killing people by scaring them. I think it's irresponsible.

One clear turning point was the Bic lighter story. Our producer rushed in breathlessly [talking] about how four people over four years have been killed by Bic lighters catching fire in people's pockets. By then, I had my death list that we compiled [based on] data from scientific and government agencies as to what kills people. I said, "I'll do Bic lighters if we first do plastic bags, which kill 11 people a year; or garage door openers, which kill six; or buckets, which kill 50 people a year." He then staggered out of my office, calling me insensitive. And they got another correspondent to do the story.

Reason: Can you give some examples of stories you wanted to do that were shot down?

Stossel: I have wanted to do privatization of Social Security, which I still hope to have success at. I have wanted to do decriminalization of prostitution, which I appear to be having success with. [The report aired January 31.]

Reason: These would be stories on 20/20?

Stossel: Yes. I must say that the stories I most want to do are stories that show how freedom works and how privatization works. Frankly, these are not very exciting television. I'm most proud of stories that I did years ago on the benefits of deregulation or on the entitlements crisis, which I did 10 years ago. They were very hard stories to get on the air. The same thing [is true] in the case of the story of how FDA regulation may be killing people as well as saving people. It took 10 years of pushing to get that on the air -- not so much because there is overt political opposition but because television is a collaborative business, and to get anything done you need to have at least one producer who is enthusiastic and an executive producer who is at least tolerant. It's a little bit like pushing string. There was no blatant resistance, but there wasn't enthusiasm. I finally got the FDA story on the air after we came across the story about a breast self-examination device that wasn't being approved. "Breasts" helped me get the story on the air.

I want to do more stories on free markets. And I hope to do them, but I am aware I have to intersperse them with stories about raising children, and peeping toms, and diseases of the week.

Reason: Do you find people are resistant because they perceive you as pushing an agenda, or is it just that they think it won't play well on TV?

Stossel: Producers think the audience isn't interested, but they'd go along if they thought it would play well on TV. In the case of Social Security, they don't understand. It would be a difficult story to produce. It's much easier in TV to cover the fire, or the presidential election, or O.J. You know you'll get ratings and interest. It's much harder to cover abstract issues.

Reason: What tricks do you use to get complex or subtle ideas, such as the unseen costs of litigation or regulation, across on TV? Do you find the medium's limitations frustrating?

Stossel: Yes, it is frustrating. The temptation is to do a survey, because you do the research on the issue and you find, in the case of lawsuit abuse, a thousand examples. And you want to tell them all. The best TV stories, and I found this from watching 60 Minutes, may have only three characters in them. My bad tendency is to have 10 characters in the story, and I'm distressed to still have to cut it down. The editing process helps, because we will shoot 10 hours of tape, and the producer will cut it down to an hour of the best material. Then I will cut it down further, and we will cut it down again and again and again. And each time you look at it, you see new ways to make it clearer as you make it shorter.

Reason: Are there scholars or public policy experts whose work you admire but whom you wouldn't want to put on camera because they don't play well on TV?

Stossel: "Play well" is a tough phrase. There are plenty who would play OK, but I would be reluctant to use them because they are not bombastic enough to make abstract issues come alive on TV. In the case of "The Trouble with Lawyers," we searched through many critics of the system who were wise and articulate, but none were as clear as John Langbein, a [Yale] law professor, simply because he spoke explosively. People like Virginia Postrel, Ed Crane, Jim Bovard, Richard Epstein all speak well. I would use them, but they aren't John Langbein. They are too intellectual. Peter Huber is another brilliant individual and speaker. But not dramatic, not explosive.

Reason: Aside from what you've mentioned, are there other topics you'd like to cover?

Stossel: There is always an endless list. I would like to do a story on how licensing hurts entrepreneurs starting off. I would like to do some lawsuits the Institute for Justice is pushing. I might want to do one of your smoking topics.

Reason: Have you done any stories about the war on drugs?

Stossel: I did one [five years ago]. It was about the pro-legalization argument, for 20/20. We focused on [Baltimore Mayor] Kurt Schmoke.

Reason: Have you seen any sign that the big media mergers have had an impact on news coverage?

Stossel: Not yet. The big fear within the journalistic pack is that the evil conglomerates, which were eating us, would censor the news. There was a lot of vigilance and wailing when GE bought NBC. I think there is so much vigilance, and we reporters are so naturally prickly about businesses censoring us, that there is very little danger that Disney will have me doing puff pieces on Mickey Mouse or GE would have NBC squelching pieces on GE engines. I don't think that'll happen. And Disney, to its credit, so far has made it clear that ABC News has been doing quite well on its own.

In terms of squelching stories, I think the underreported story is the self-censorship that takes place because of lawsuits, because of the rich bullies who are willing to use lawyers to get special treatment. A libel suit is so viciously expensive even if you win. That's what scares reporters.

Reason: What kinds of stories do the networks cover well?

Stossel: Breaking stories. The fire that happened today, the crisis elsewhere in the world. I love getting up and watching Good Morning America to see what's happened in my world last night, yesterday, and to know my world is still safe. I think that's what we do the best.

Reason: What do the networks do worst?

Stossel: We do the worst on the slower stories. Most of the important things that happen -- Virginia Postrel has written brilliantly about this in her editorials -- are, I think, the slow developments: the development of the computer chip, the way Hewlett-Packard was run, the invention of the birth-control pill, the sexual revolution, changing attitudes. Those things don't happen today; they happen this month, this year. We do a bad job covering that.

Reason: How would you describe your politics now?

Stossel: I believe, just as Jefferson did, that less government is good government, and as George Washington did, that government is not reason or persuasion, government is force. I think the issue of the day is how big should government be. Ours has grown over 100 years from 1 or 2 percent of the GDP to about 36 percent of the GDP. I think the debate should be about what percentage is [optimal]. I think it's somewhere around 18 percent, and that's my main political issue. I don't think that makes me a Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative.

Reason: Are people confused by the mix of your interests? On the one hand, you are doing something they perceive as conservative, saying that environmental regulation can be harmful. On the other hand, you're doing this story on the decriminalization of prostitution, which is seen as a liberal issue.

Stossel: I hope it's good I do those things. I receive letters from all sorts of different people on different stories -- those who are provoked and those who are grateful. I certainly enrage conservative viewers, who write dismayed that I, who they thought was the one voice of reason on ABC News, would do a story on, for example, kids cursing, and conclude by saying we have bigger problems to worry about.

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